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BloodPanzer

The Torpedo Reload Mystery

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Disclaimer: We won the game, i did decently well, therefore no salt.  Im not accusing anyone of hacking (maybe i am), but i cant seem to figure this out.

Short Story - Playing a stock Z46 (shame on me) and was up against a Gearing.  Noticed that the frequency of torpedo waves was unusually high -> which actually lead to my sinking :(
Long Story  -
16:10, saw the first set of torpedoes come in, noted that they were 2x5s the only ship within the sector that can drop that configuration, or torpedoes AT ALL was Gearing
15:09, saw Gearing, hydro, saw second set of torpedoes come in again 2x5s, Gearing at 100% HP
14:06, saw third single set of Gearing torpedoes which ultimately got me. Gearing nearly dead/dead.

Maxed out Gearing torpedo reload 106 seconds, with maxed adrenaline Rush 84(?) seconds. 
Those torpedoes were all within 1 minute  + - 5 seconds of each other....therefore even if he is at 1%hp it still shouldnt be possible.

Attached is the replay.  How did this happen?

20190206_010554_PGSD109-Z-46_38_Canada.wowsreplay

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Ooh! A math problem. He was approaching you, the second and third sets took less time to reach your position.

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You can't hack this game.. Or well... ok you technically could, but it'd be virtually impossible and completely pointless to do. This game isn't setup like most games, since literally everything is server side and they code in multiple languages, you'd have to somehow break into their servers without being detected, reverse engineer all their back end code which would take months most likely, then make your changes...

But that isn't it..

Then you'd have to somehow break back into their server, again undetected, and hoping they didn't change the password, back log key, or any of the various ways to get in, and upload your hack.

 

But wait that isn't it either.

 

YOu can't let that hack work for every player, so you have to somehow hide the fact you have duplicate files for just 1 person, otherwise everyone would get your hack. All of this would take months to complete for 1 person.


But wait yes, there is even more!

 

You have to do all of this every time they update the game.. Which is essentially multiple times a month, and hope someone on their end doesn't notice any of the problems, changes, or alterations..

----------------------

 

If you're THAT good at hacking.. you're not hacking some game to get a little bit faster reload... you're getting paid mega dollars by a government and living in pure bliss and harmony with everything you could ever want being spoon fed by a playboy bunny in the Bahamas.. Just sayin..

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Gearing with Fletcher torps can reload its tubes in ~88 secs with a full torp build. Either his AR was kicking in or an unseen player launched torps at you.

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Well gearing with the torpedo reload module (Fairly certain USN has it[I dont own a gearing but have a shima instead) for 6th slot would reduce torpedo reload time by 15% so you are starting from 90.1 seconds (apparently mathed wrong  its 85.1s as seen from Snargfargle's post down below.) first to 2nd set he was moving closer as the torpedoes expired almost right after passing you within ~1km.  The 2nd set had traveled quite a fair distance more.  3rd set definitely looked like AR kicking in

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Oh hey I remember being in this match. On the opposite team.

That's definitely a Fletcher-torp Gearing. I'm not sure what the reload is with a full torpedo build, but it's definitely not over 90 seconds. Still combing through the replay at the moment.

Edited by Flashtirade

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Gearing with Torp Armament Expertise, the Torp Module, and Fletcher Torps reloads in 85 seconds. Add Adrenaline Rush you can get the reload down to below 80 seconds if at low health. However, they had 7 ships capable of sending out torpedoes. There were torps everywhere and it was hard to see what was coming from what.

image.thumb.png.5a67dd102caa637851251c0ec76f10f8.png

Edited by Snargfargle

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OK here's what I've got. Going to be using this table for reference: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13s6LtFslxFF_p7P7Yu671zlur8Gwc1niAN03wJnDj6U/pubhtml

The 10.5km torps reload in 106 seconds without any boosts. This goes to 79.5 seconds with both TAE (-10%) and TTM3 (-15%). For simplicity I'll say this is 80 seconds.

According to the chart, the torpedoes will cover their maximum distance in 59.2 seconds, simplified to 59 seconds.

Dividing the 10.5km distance over the 59 second travel time gives a closing speed of approximately 178 meters per second.

To guess the range at which the torpedoes were fired from, I'll use the time the torpedoes are spotted before they despawn. This time multiplied by the closing speed will give us a distance traveled while spotted. Subtracting this "spotted" distance from the maximum travel distance will give the range the torpedoes were fired at (relative to the position at which the torpedoes were initially spotted).

To find the time the torpedoes were launched, I'll subtract the time the torpedoes were spotted before despawning from their max travel time.

 

First set

Torpedoes detected at 17:40 and traveled for 15 seconds before despawning.

Enemy Gearing torpedo launch was 7.8km from the position at which you detected the torpedoes. This makes sense because you were moving towards his position.

Torpedoes were launched at 18:38. His torpedo tubes would have been ready at 18:40. He likely dumped fish the moment your friendly Hakuryuu spotted him, which was around this time.

 

Second set

Torpedoes detected at 16:13 and traveled for 11 seconds before despawning.

Enemy Gearing torpedo launch was 8.5km from the position at which you detected the torpedoes. You were relatively stationary in the cap with not only your squadmate JB but also a friendly DM. He was likely just outside of radar range.

Torpedoes were launched at 17:01. His torpedo tubes would have been ready at 17:18.

 

Third set

Torpedoes detected at 15:09 by activation hydroacoustic search at a range of approximately 2km, traveling for 32 seconds before despawning.

Enemy Gearing torpedo launch was 5.7km from the position at which you detected the torpedoes, definitely trying to hit the JB. You were advancing on his position.

Torpedoes were launched at 15:36. His torpedo tubes would have been ready at 15:41.

 

Fourth set

Torpedoes detected at 14:06 by hydroacoustic search at a range of 2.2km.

Enemy Gearing had sustained heavy damage by this time, but he did not need to have AR to have his torpedoes reloaded in time.

Torpedoes were detected immediately upon launch at 14:06. His torpedo tubes would have been ready at 14:16.

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13 minutes ago, Flashtirade said:

OK here's what I've got. Going to be using this table for

You are not taking into consideration Adrenaline Rush though, which makes all the timings within the margin of error. Like someone else has said, however, it would be almost impossible to hack something like torpedo reload times without hacking into the server. As this is an international game with real money involved, hacking into one of the WG servers would be a felony in the US and probably its equivalent in many other countries. This means that someone who did it would be facing some serious penalties. A simple hack to a server could easily cost over ten thousand dollars in downtime and increased security measures.

1st degree

Damage to or the value of the property or computer services is over $10,000

B felony (up to 20 years in prison, a fine of up to $15,000, or both)

 

Quote

A World of Warcraft player who hit Blizzard with a DDoS attack has been sentenced to one year in prison in the US.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-05-09-hacker-known-online-as-dr-mengele-sentenced-to-jail-for-world-of-warcraft-ddos-attack

Edited by Snargfargle

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5 hours ago, Snargfargle said:

You are not taking into consideration Adrenaline Rush though, which makes all the timings within the margin of error. Like someone else has said, however, it would be almost impossible to hack something like torpedo reload times without hacking into the server. As this is an international game with real money involved, hacking into one of the WG servers would be a felony in the US and probably its equivalent in many other countries. This means that someone who did it would be facing some serious penalties. A simple hack to a server could easily cost over ten thousand dollars in downtime and increased security measures.

1st degree

Damage to or the value of the property or computer services is over $10,000

B felony (up to 20 years in prison, a fine of up to $15,000, or both)

 

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-05-09-hacker-known-online-as-dr-mengele-sentenced-to-jail-for-world-of-warcraft-ddos-attack

The enemy Gearing took minimal damage until right at the very end where OP in the Z-46 engaged him, and I showed that that the Gearing wouldn't have needed it anyways.

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Just now, Flashtirade said:

The enemy Gearing took minimal damage until right at the very end where OP in the Z-46 engaged him, and I showed that that the Gearing wouldn't have needed it anyways.

I really think that some of the torpedoes seen were from other ships. I watched the replay and it was only really apparent that two spreads came from the Gearing.

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Ah thats the problem, i have only ever used the Gearing with the Mark 17s.
Totally forgot the Fletcher torps were that good.

I totally agree that it is totally not worth the effort/infeasable to 'hack'.  I was simply trying to figure out what was going on.

2 minutes ago, Snargfargle said:

I really think that some of the torpedoes seen were from other ships. I watched the replay and it was only really apparent that two spreads came from the Gearing.

Im pretty sure those were all Gearing torps.  The only other ship that can drop torpedoes in that sector was the Hakyru and it doesnt have that drop pattern.

Thanks for clearing things up!  Thank you FlashTirade for running the numbers.  The final piece of the puzzle falls into place.
Imma play some Gearing with Fletchter torps now :D

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1 minute ago, Snargfargle said:

I really think that some of the torpedoes seen were from other ships. I watched the replay and it was only really apparent that two spreads came from the Gearing.

The only set that could possibly be from another ship is the very first set at 17:40, when the Terrible was also in the area. However, his position doesn't line up with the direction the torpedoes came from, whereas the last known position of the Gearing (who was spotted by the CV nearly a minute earlier) does.

OP just ran into a genuine torpedo spammer. It wasn't until the very end that the Gearing fired his guns, and that was after he had fired torpedoes.

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1 minute ago, Flashtirade said:

OP just ran into a genuine torpedo spammer. It wasn't until the very end that the Gearing fired his guns, and that was after he had fired torpedoes.

If that Gearing would have just kept firing and not tried to torp the last time he probably would have survived the gun battle, though he did get a kill after the fact.

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2 minutes ago, BloodPanzer said:

Ah thats the problem, i have only ever used the Gearing with the Mark 17s.
Totally forgot the Fletcher torps were that good.

I totally agree that it is totally not worth the effort/infeasable to 'hack'.  I was simply trying to figure out what was going on.

Im pretty sure those were all Gearing torps.  The only other ship that can drop torpedoes in that sector was the Hakyru and it doesnt have that drop pattern.

Thanks for clearing things up!  Thank you FlashTirade for running the numbers.  The final piece of the puzzle falls into place.
Imma play some Gearing with Fletchter torps now :D

People wanted the Fletcher torps on Gearing for years, and I guess this is why. I just got myself a Fletcher so maybe I'll get a taste of it too.

Or maybe I'll get pummeled to death by Haks first.

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3 minutes ago, Snargfargle said:

If that Gearing would have just kept firing and not tried to torp the last time he probably would have survived the gun battle, though he did get a kill after the fact.

Considering his playstyle I'd call him lucky to have died that early and still got something done. That match was not particularly a fun one for my team.

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