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ihsasum

CV rework is fine but its the core game mechanics need a rework

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First of all, I am a CV noob before the rework but I am quite good at all other ship types. I am one of top players in terms of games played and I have enough experience on how things work and don't at least from BB, CA and DD point of view. After trying some 100 games in the new CVs and other ship types, here are my thoughts.


The root of CVs problem is not CV itself but 3 core game mechanics. 1. Perma spotting mechanic and shared vision. 2. AA mechanic. 3. DCP mechanic. 


1. Perma spotting mechanic and shared vision
Before the rework, there is no way for surface ships, especially DD counter it. the CV can just perma spot those ships and let his teamates to finish them off. After rework, the issue is not solved. I would say its even worse. Before the rework, CV can cross drop a DD, if the DD is skilled or with defaa, it can dodge those torps and be safe for the next 2 mins until the 2nd wave of attack. Now, hyper fast rocket planes can rocket spam a DD to near death even under heavy aa fire and in the first 3 mins of the game. 


I also want to stress that perma spotting MAKES ALL AMUSH, SNEAKY AND FLANKING PLAYS NEXT TO IMPOSSIBLE and thus make the game monotonous and boring. It becomes a 18-20km long range sniping until one of team out shoot another. There is no thrilling and heroic games of comeback because perma spotting prevent that from happening.


2. AA mechanic. 
Before the rework, the AA system itself has nothing to do with personal skill. Its a mathematical formula, if you calculate x amount of AA dps times x% of def aa bonus minus x amount of aa guns destoryed vs x amount of planes with x amount of hp pool coming at you. With the careful timing on def aa usage and manuvering, you will know whether you can survive CV drop of not. 
Def aa is the magical button to safe a ship from being one shotted. However, skillful CV player can bait out/wait out the duration of def aa and delete the ship aftewords. So def aa is a mechanic of absolute safe for 40 or so sec and absolute vulnerable during its CD time. But hey, as least it give you a 40 sec of safety.
After the rework, WG brings the aa reinforce sector mechanic in. Thats a good change which require players' skill. However, the flak bursts are entirely RNG based. Many famous youtubers such as Notser already demonstrate how to avoid flak bursts completely.
So, as of now, AA system is actually worse than before. Sometimes, you can wipe planes out before the drop, sometimes after, sometimes you can't shoot down a single plane. And this is painful for a CV player too. Sometimes, I can dodge the flak burst completely, sometimes a few bursts, sometimes my planes just melted the moment I entered the AA bubble. In short, the aa system now is utterly chaotic and reliable. 


3. DCP mechanic
Nothing changed after CV rework. Its still a mechanic of press a button to solve the curret issue and competely vulnerable during its CD time. I would say its worse after the rework. Just look at the Gaishu Issoku's 550k dmg game. The Yamato he dropped dcp the first flooding and got flooded against after 20 or sec. What could he do? Nothing. It won't be much difference after WG shortened the flooding time because, the planes are so fast that 2nd waves and 3 waves will reflood him again again and again.


Possible solutions:
1. Nozoupforyou suggested the spotting done by CV will only be shown on the minimap. I would say that idea is a step further but still not enough. the ship CV spotted can only be spotted by CV itself. If it can be shown on the minimap, well, imagine what will happen if the CV player div up with a radar cruiser and a DD with RPF and they are in voice communication. The ship spotted will have no chance whatsoever. Also, despite the fact that CV has only 1 squadron now, the speed of the squadron increased dramatically. So the overall spotting capability of CV is actually increased compare to the old CV. I would say the surface ship air detectability need at least 50% improvement. BB shouldn't be spotted 12, 15km away. It should only be spotted after the planes are spotted. As for DD, it even needs a skill/consumable to remain completely in stealth for a short period of time in case the planes accidentally find him or deliberately hover over the cap circle when the said DD is capping.


2. as of now, WG is tuning the flak burst down with more aura dps. We shall see the effect of that. But keep in mind that there is not aa range extention after the rework. Also AA can't shoot over island now. So anything increased in totally AA value will be offset by the shortened range and obstacles. In my opinion, for the worst case scenario, bring back the old aa system, at least we know everything about that system.


3. I suggest bring the Battlestation Pacific/Midway damage control system to the game. Its basically a passive heal (sacrificing some aa value, reload speed for the faster heal) just like the heal buffs in this season of arm race ranked. Due to the effect of that, multiple fires and floodings are not a death sentence but ships are still killable under focus fire. (I used ifhe manual secondary FDG in this season of ranked and I could do many plays I couldn't do in randoms, like getting ultra close to support our DD for capping). As a matter of fact, I like the arm race mode alot. It encourages close quarter fights instead of long rage sniping. Unfortunately, thats something random battles with double/triple CV promotes. 


I love this game so I played a lot. I am still cautiously optimistic on the CV rework. Gaishu said CV is a redundent ship class and its bad to have it in game. I don't agree with that. Battlestation Midway/Pacfic has CV, nothing wrong with that in those games. But lets face it, 0.8.0 is a patch of utter chaos. I guess WG will lose a tons of players due to this. So, WG plz, make the rework complete and done so that we won't have CV rework No.2 one or two years later. For me personally, I will most certainly give up the game if it is still as chaotic as this a couple of months later.

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1 - Is [edited]. Do you really think i am going to spent the entire match babysitting one dd? I have only one squadron. I attack him or not , if not i move along to another target, when in the previous system a good carrier  player would cross drop you already in the beginning in the open or inside the smoke and you would be dead , or if he wishes he could spare one squadron to keep an eye on you and use all the other squadrons to attack other targets.

3 - [edited] again. " The Yamato he dropped dcp the first flooding and got flooded against after 20 or sec. What could he do? Nothing." He could do one simple thing. Wait for the torpedo bombers to leave first and only after use the DCP. Same tactic was used before the rework where great carrier players would attack first with the bombers and set on fire and would wait to see if the enemy would use the DCP before coming with the torpedo squadrons. He didn't wait, he deserve to died.

Edited by _no_one_
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I think the new playstyle is great and i don't mind having CVs in battle, just sort out the balance and near perma spotting of the whole team.

Edited by Final8ty

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24 minutes ago, Final8ty said:

I think the new playstyle is great and i don't mind having CVs in battle, just sort out the balance and near perma spotting of the whole team.

Wow its like you're a totally different person. Why can't you be reasonable like this in any of my posts.

Didn't think I'd agree with you ever.

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1 hour ago, _no_one_ said:

1 - Is [edited]. Do you really think i am going to spent the entire match babysitting one dd? I have only one squadron. I attack him or not , if not i move along to another target, when in the previous system a good carrier  player would cross drop you already in the beginning in the open or inside the smoke and you would be dead , or if he wishes he could spare one squadron to keep an eye on you and use all the other squadrons to attack other targets.

3 - [edited] again. " The Yamato he dropped dcp the first flooding and got flooded against after 20 or sec. What could he do? Nothing." He could do one simple thing. Wait for the torpedo bombers to leave first and only after use the DCP. Same tactic was used before the rework where great carrier players would attack first with the bombers and set on fire and would wait to see if the enemy would use the DCP before coming with the torpedo squadrons. He didn't wait, he deserve to died.

Big difference is that now the CV can not only do multiple drops from the same group but rather than having to fly all the way back to the ship (having to worry about fighters & AA all the way back) & then fly back to the target...now he hits the F key & not only doesn't have to fly all the way back but also has a boost to get back to the target before the DC even finishes cool down.

Not to mention that they can all now dodge all the AA w/ease...I say that because the ones that haven't figured out how to dodge AA have pretty much quit trying already & only the ones that have figured it out are the ones still playing so you can be pretty sure if a CV has singled you out you're pretty much on your way to port shortly thereafter...no matter what ship you are in.

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5 hours ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

Big difference is that now the CV can not only do multiple drops from the same group but rather than having to fly all the way back to the ship (having to worry about fighters & AA all the way back) & then fly back to the target...now he hits the F key & not only doesn't have to fly all the way back but also has a boost to get back to the target before the DC even finishes cool down.

Not to mention that they can all now dodge all the AA w/ease...I say that because the ones that haven't figured out how to dodge AA have pretty much quit trying already & only the ones that have figured it out are the ones still playing so you can be pretty sure if a CV has singled you out you're pretty much on your way to port shortly thereafter...no matter what ship you are in.

" can not only do multiple drops from the same group "  What is multiple drops for you? 2 or 3? How many squadrons a carrier player had before the rework at higher tiers? And  how many torps a single torpedo squadron had in just one drop before the rework? A great carrier player could  delete any ship in one attack before the rework now takes more time. The biggest difference is in the past it was possible to plan a big alpha strike now is all about to send wave after wave, and of course where i could stay in multiple locations in the map before the rework now i can be only in one place.

"Not to mention that they can all now dodge all the AA w/ease." Good luck with that when facing 3 powerful flak ships in one tight group.

"fly all the way back to the ship (having to worry about fighters & AA all the way back) & then fly back to the target...now he hits the F key.."  Yeah but in the past you could control the route those planes would take to arrive to the carrier now you can't.

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Hello Captains,

Please keep the conversation civil and on topic.

Thanks.

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The biggest problem of the CV rework is the brand new attack planes.  They are too fast.  Their turn-around is too fast.  They can and often make 2 or 3 attack passes.  The rockets hit too often.  When hit, they cause too much damage on DDs.    

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Darn...thought the real meta rework that would be stated would be that the armor of the ships would be fixed to reflect RL armor and tactics...armor strongest at broadside, weaker at angle or from bow/stern...wow such a fix would actually get rid of so much camping AND raising a whole generation of kids that wonder why they German's and British lined up on the broadside to fight it out, just like very other ship up and into WWII did when they could.  How the Hood was hit on the ANGLE and died...where the armor was weaker...turning to unmask her rear guns AND get better armor protection on her BROADSIDE......................................sigh.  

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