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Sparviero

Why not make a tier VI Andrea Doria premium first?

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And offer it as compensation for rebalancing the Cesare in tier V? For those who wouldn’t want to keep a less efficient Cesare?:cap_yes:

Italian_battleship_Andrea_Doria_surrende

At least it would have some AA. :cap_rambo:

 

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2 GC for the price of one.

DEAL

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But I want drama!

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I’d be fine with this, but I suspect that the real reason that we’re seeing this change is because WG wants to release Novorossiysk as a tier VI premium BB and can’t abide the idea of coming out on the “worse” end of another Gremyaschchy-Anshan situation. 

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2 minutes ago, SkaerKrow said:

I’d be fine with this, but I suspect that the real reason that we’re seeing this change is because WG wants to release Novorossiysk as a tier VI premium BB and can’t abide the idea of coming out on the “worse” end of another Gremyaschchy-Anshan situation. 

That would make sense, actually.

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NO change end of story will wait and see what they decide upon !

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1 minute ago, SkaerKrow said:

I’d be fine with this, but I suspect that the real reason that we’re seeing this change is because WG wants to release Novorossiysk as a tier VI premium BB and can’t abide the idea of coming out on the “worse” end of another Gremyaschchy-Anshan situation. 

It seems silly. Novorossiysk was at worse going to have post war Russian AA. And most likely have better soft stats on the 320mm.

Or crazytown Novorossiysk/Kronstadt version of the Molotov/Donskoi 180mm gimmick. 

I, myself, never saw it as a tier V.  The Novorossiysk that is. Cheers. 

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GC is not OP. She was played by a lot of experienced players who are a LOT better than they were two years ago when the went up the TWO existing BB lines, and made their stats.   END OF STORY.  Get a grip WG...you really having a BAD week.

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55 minutes ago, Morpheous said:

GC is not OP. She was played by a lot of experienced players who are a LOT better than they were two years ago when the went up the TWO existing BB lines, and made their stats.   END OF STORY.  Get a grip WG...you really having a BAD week.

I'm not a unicum.  Cesare is pretty damn powerful, even in my hands.

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Yes it is yet “Balance by Matchmaker” is a weird way to go about correcting the ship. As initially only global tier changes are being made to the ship. Default external armor plates and fire coefficient. 

Basically expecting the beat down of being bottom tiered against tier VIIIs is an appropriate corrective action. The AA outfit was adequate at tier V. Now facing tier VIII aircraft carriers? Conte di Cavour did have a catapult setup on a secondary turret for a short time. However I’m not sure if Cesare will ever get an aircraft consumable. If you are going to take a PR hit at least go about it properly and attempt a balance in the current tier first.

Attempt to keep ship in tier. Address:

  • Concealment efficiency reduced. 
  • HE shell not based on Dunkerque. 
  • TDS value reduced efficiency. 
  • Increase reload to 32 seconds?

Setup some sort of Premium ship exchange. WoT already has a cash in your premium program. My biased opinion is create said Andrea Doria. More realistically let players choose amongst any non-retired V-VI-VII premium. Uptiered Cesare just throws all sorts of wrinkles into the Italian line and is a solution that ignores long term balance. 

Aka it strongly suggests WG has no interest in the impact on an Italian tech tree and continiues the overtiered Italian ships meme. 

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I wouldn't oppose the release of Andrea Doria. However, this resolution really only addresses a change of Guilio - not a series of alterations, of which this just happens to be the first.

That's the problem - they've now made official statements that GC is the first planned reconstitution, with others to follow. And that's... bad. Very bad.

Edited by Battleship_AndreaDoria
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Novorossiyski is a update ship with Soviet weapons and radar. 

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10 hours ago, Sparviero said:

It seems silly. Novorossiysk was at worse going to have post war Russian AA. And most likely have better soft stats on the 320mm.

Or crazytown Novorossiysk/Kronstadt version of the Molotov/Donskoi 180mm gimmick.  

I, myself, never saw it as a tier V.  The Novorossiysk that is. Cheers.  

It's going to get very troll dispersion if the guns are the same :Smile_trollface:

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12 minutes ago, Battleship_AndreaDoria said:

I wouldn't oppose the release of Andrea Doria. However, this resolution really only addresses a change of Guilio - not a series of alterations, of which this just happens to be the first.

That's the problem - they've now made official statements that GC is the first planned reconstitution, with others to follow. And that's... bad. Very bad.

Giulio. That Q&A bit I only became aware of after this thread was posted. I would hope WG would show some flexibility in the process instead of standing firm.  

 

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19 minutes ago, Sparviero said:

Giulio. That Q&A bit I only became aware of after this thread was posted. I would hope WG would show some flexibility in the process instead of standing firm.  

 

I think the whole point is that they've picked a "softer" target here to begin the purge. Some mitigating circumstances - however weak - can be utilized to defend this move: "oh, she was given away free for a while, so we don't 'owe' anyone anything; oh, she's a little-known Italian ship; oh, she's ONLY a tier 5" and so on and so forth. 

I think we - those of us who feel appalled at the notion that our fleets (in many cases, representing thousands of dollars invested) might be pruned in this manner - need to be unyielding in affirming and reaffirming that this is not an acceptable change to make to any premium ship, now or ever, much less as a starting point for further reconstitution of other vessels. These ships may not be our property, but we sure as hell paid for them, and now it's time for Wargaming to acknowledge that they are in our debt. Enormously.

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The question that has been rattling around in my largely empty head for some time is "why are they worrying about a retired ship that is no longer for sale?" I mean, it's a ship that you could have gotten out of a Santa crate but those crates are no longer for sale either. So, what's the motivation to start monkeying around with a retired premium? Are they working on releasing more Italian ships and want to move the GC so they can put another Tier 5 in it's place? 

Regardless, I guess I should thank War Gaming for saving me money. Honestly if all premiums are subject to this kind of post release rework then there's no reason for me to buy them anymore. I'll just play the game for free and spend my money elsewhere. 

 

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13 hours ago, SkaerKrow said:

I’d be fine with this, but I suspect that the real reason that we’re seeing this change is because WG wants to release Novorossiysk as a tier VI premium BB and can’t abide the idea of coming out on the “worse” end of another Gremyaschchy-Anshan situation. 

This.

Plus when they bring out the Italian BB line, they'll know where to put the Doria.

Hypothesis: Giulio will move to T6 with appropriate armour and economy changes. Novorossiysk will be a Tier 6 premium Soviet battleship, and will be to the T6 Giulio what Makarov is to the Nurnberg. Doria will be the tech-tree Italian Tier 5, and would become what they would have to do to the Giulio to keep her balanced where she is now.

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3 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

This.

Plus when they bring out the Italian BB line, they'll know where to put the Doria.

Hypothesis: Giulio will move to T6 with appropriate armour and economy changes. Novorossiysk will be a Tier 6 premium Soviet battleship, and will be to the T6 Giulio what Makarov is to the Nurnberg. Doria will be the tech-tree Italian Tier 5, and would become what they would have to do to the Giulio to keep her balanced where she is now.

 I will make a bad analogy so bear with me. Would you put West Virginia '45 a tier below WV '41?

Cavour and Cesare where the first rebuilds with Duilio and Doria being the second pair. The only reason I see to flip flop them is if Lesta lets the refit to Cavour that was in progress on the armistice act as a B hull. Then you would have a repeat of Gneisenau and Bismarck. With the lower tier ship having a much more advanced AA outfit. This time two tiers lower. :Smile_hiding:

Consider it like this.

  • Cavour/Cesere
    • Positives
      • Stealth(Director sits lower)
      • Armored bow
      •  Speed
      • Airplane? imam_ro43,2349.jpg
    • Negatives
      • Secondaries
      • AA
      • Main rifle range(director height)
  • Duilio/Doria
    • Positives
      •  Main rifle range(FCS more advanced/higher in mast)
      • + AA
      • + Secondaries
    • Negatives
      • Speed
      • Stealth(taller FCS)
      • No aircraft consumable?

 


@Phoenix_jz do you happen to have a diagram of the post '40 Cavour rework? I've only ever seen a listing of upgraded AA. And right now my friend the flu does not appear to be helping the google fu functionality. :cap_tea:

Edited by Sparviero

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I dont think many people would buy her but she still probably has better AA than some DDs

300px-Andreadoria02.jpg

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4 minutes ago, T_O_dubl_D said:

I dont think many people would buy her but she still probably has better AA than some DDs

1200px-Andrea_Doria.JPG

While I realize the program named called them frigates they are classed as destroyers now. 

I'm pretty sure you don't want to be on the wrong end of an Aster 30
27_151028_Andrea_Doria.jpg

much less these bad boys.

Oto-Melara-76SR-gun-010.jpg

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However the point is this ship:

5c32dfb3f2ad3ee82bc95197c6f0da8b.jpg

Which if it had a secondary gimmick would make for one nice angle bow tanking ship thanks to the arrangement of the 135/45 batteries.

11%20-%20a%20-%20r.n.%20caio%20duilio%20

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I'd love to see how much AA power one of the Orizzonte would have with with just the three 76mm Super Rapido alone XD

Although speaking of guns, it'll be a same to see the Durand de la Penne-class retire... I've heard plans to make Vittorio Veneto a museum fell through due to asbestos, maybe they'll Durand de la Penne or Mimbelli a museum instead?

Part of me hopes these new 10000-ton DDX will have a similar amount of guns :cap_rambo:especially since it's suppose to be for land attack and air defense. Let the MMI continue to have a primary and secondary gun battery, I say!


As far as Cavour's AA refit, I only have this as far as I remember;

 

oWPEzlY.jpg

 

 

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18 hours ago, CaptainKaitoGhost said:

 

I'm not a unicum.  Cesare is pretty damn powerful, even in my hands.

This^^^. I am nowhere close to Kaito and I can rek face with Guilio with little effort...provided I dont do something stupid. 

Its hard to have a bad game in her.

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31 minutes ago, Phoenix_jz said:

I'd love to see how much AA power one of the Orizzonte would have with with just the three 76mm Super Rapido alone XD

Although speaking of guns, it'll be a same to see the Durand de la Penne-class retire... I've heard plans to make Vittorio Veneto a museum fell through due to asbestos, maybe they'll Durand de la Penne or Mimbelli a museum instead?

Part of me hopes these new 10000-ton DDX will have a similar amount of guns :cap_rambo:especially since it's suppose to be for land attack and air defense. Let the MMI continue to have a primary and secondary gun battery, I say!


As far as Cavour's AA refit, I only have this as far as I remember;

 

oWPEzlY.jpg

 

 

Thanks to the desire to keep native industry healthy I imagine it will happen this side of some major breakthrough with non-traditional weapons systems.

Never really thought about it game balance wise however with the tower change I guess WG can go either way depending on how they weight the AA. Handwave the Cavour to using +30 degrees. We might just see WG choose efficiency over style. Duilio(IV)/da Vinci(V)/Doria(VI)/Cavour(VII) after all. Just never show your citadel.
 LGj4.gif


Something that I've been kind of spitballing is that low angle guns should have some aa value against torpedo bombers as well. It seemed to be enough to work against British torpedo bombers.

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