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darkalex

long fuse hood in a nutshell

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A mere 41,000 more than the average damage of the Hood, not exactly the best way to try to prove it has been gimped.

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Yup, that dmg number is good for pub battles. 

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22 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

A mere 41,000 more than the average damage of the Hood, not exactly the best way to try to prove it has been gimped.

because it was an outright buff.

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Played her a couple times in 8.0 now... don't personally notice much of a difference and dmg/frags are basically exactly on my avg. 

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Only overpens or shatters? I think you need to take another look at your own pictures, I clearly see pen and citadel ribbons. Also, 80K damage in a T7 ship isn't exactly bad. Your screenshots don't exactly prove your point. In fact, the citadel on the NO goes against it.

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9 hours ago, AJTP89 said:

Only overpens or shatters? I think you need to take another look at your own pictures, I clearly see pen and citadel ribbons. Also, 80K damage in a T7 ship isn't exactly bad. Your screenshots don't exactly prove your point. In fact, the citadel on the NO goes against it.

that citidal is on a cruiser which you could do that before, and if that 5 overpens were penetration that cruiser will be dead as in pre 0.8

good luck finding citadel on battleships because they will shatter on armor belt, and they overpen on parts you could do damage before.

my average in hood was 60k even before patch, and i can get that damage much easier

as for tier 7 bb, I have  80k in ashitaka and 70k in nelson in average, and I fire primarily AP in nelson too, hood is still bad in comparison

 

 

DId you actually played Hood before?

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9 hours ago, BrushWolf said:

A mere 41,000 more than the average damage of the Hood, not exactly the best way to try to prove it has been gimped.

my average in Hood was 60k even before patch

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9 hours ago, Hanger_18 said:

because it was an outright buff.

1.9 sigma maybe, long fuse with worst in class pen is definitely not

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9 hours ago, pikohan said:

Played her a couple times in 8.0 now... don't personally notice much of a difference and dmg/frags are basically exactly on my avg. 

I that that's because long fuse balanced out effect of sigma buff....  hit more shells but each deal less damage so overall the result is the same...

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Hood, and all other battleships will still overpen a large proportion of the time, because no matter what the fuse timer, the shells won't arm unless they hit 64mm of plate thickness - so flat broadside cruisers and battleships have 16-25mm in these examples.

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21 minutes ago, mofton said:

Hood, and all other battleships will still overpen a large proportion of the time, because no matter what the fuse timer, the shells won't arm unless they hit 64mm of plate thickness - so flat broadside cruisers and battleships have 16-25mm in these examples.

that's not the whole story.....long fuse means you are likely to overpen on citidal area of a cruiser at close range, and for example shell enters superstructure , then over-matched the deck, with short fuse you will get that normal pen

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5 minutes ago, darkalex said:

that's not the whole story.....long fuse means you are likely to overpen on citidal area of a cruiser at close range, and for example shell enters superstructure , then over-matched the deck, with short fuse you will get that normal pen

Sure, at a narrow range of angles, hit points and ranges you might overpen when you wouldn't, but rather niche, and I doubt it's that against a Nelson 17km away, a Massachusetts at 14km, a Gneisenau at 11km or a Nagato at 12km. Plus all those ships are more than wide enough to catch a normal fused shell either way.

Against the Nola I can't tell through the splashes, but it looks bow on - giving the length of the ship to travel through and equally making short fuses pointless.

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32 minutes ago, mofton said:

Sure, at a narrow range of angles, hit points and ranges you might overpen when you wouldn't, but rather niche, and I doubt it's that against a Nelson 17km away, a Massachusetts at 14km, a Gneisenau at 11km or a Nagato at 12km. Plus all those ships are more than wide enough to catch a normal fused shell either way.

Against the Nola I can't tell through the splashes, but it looks bow on - giving the length of the ship to travel through and equally making short fuses pointless.

The problem is: with any other battleships, you can easily aim at waterline of these targets, and get either penetration or citidals, in fact anyother non british tier 7 bb have at least 100mm more penetration across all range, and other british ones are HE spammer.  with hood you have to aim at upper hull to avoid shatters, and that makes it a completely different story, that narrow range of damage was my primary damage source pre 0.8 actually.

That Nola was broadside you can tell from minimap and I aimed at waterline.

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I wouldn't call the change  a buff or a nerf,  does better against armored ships and nets a few overpens more than it did against cruiser?    it seems to perform pretty similar overall to the way it did.    I'm not going to fuss..    Still like the ship a lot, as I do all the pocket BBs......   Play it like a cruiser,  use the speed and forgiving nature of it nd the AA is more than workable.     Maybe my favorite premium.   

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6 minutes ago, RA6E_ said:

I wouldn't call the change  a buff or a nerf,  does better against armored ships and nets a few overpens more than it did against cruiser?    it seems to perform pretty similar overall to the way it did.    I'm not going to fuss..    Still like the ship a lot, as I do all the pocket BBs......   Play it like a cruiser,  use the speed and forgiving nature of it nd the AA is more than workable.     Maybe my favorite premium.   

I still like the ship----being RN fan and all, I just find this long fuse + low pen combination pathetic, hood still can't penetrate armored ship no matter the fuse....

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54 minutes ago, darkalex said:

that's not the whole story.....long fuse means you are likely to overpen on citidal area of a cruiser at close range, and for example shell enters superstructure , then over-matched the deck, with short fuse you will get that normal pen

You're right on the citadel area part, theoretically there are some cruisers that you might overpen at close range.
I did some testing though with Roma in a training room to see which citadels are possible to overpen.  The basic result was this:  any effective armor of over ~150mm can not be overpenned past 2km out.
However, Roma had no problem overpenning Myoko (~100mm broadside) up at even 5km.  Hood's shells are significantly slower, but using Roma as a benchmark it's would be impossible for Hood to overpen the citadel of most cruisers in her matchmaking range as long as they're angled.

Also, the fuse length hardly affects overpen/pens on any cruiser or BB plating.  With Roma, the angle it requires to arm the shells is steep enough that there is only a 5 degree window or so where the shells may overpen.  However this was tested at 1km.  At effective combat ranges with Hood, I doubt you will ever find a situation where the fuse change will produce overpens.

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I don't know why people are complaining about the Hood, anything stronger and she will be op.  I am not getting  any more overpen than I would any other  BB. Against BB I get less citadels but I get far more huge pen damage at all angles 10-15k hits even when I get bow on targets. I can not repeat that in other BB but on the Hood it's normal not all the time but 2/5 of the time which is huge.

Just with gun changes she is comparable to other ships at her tier in damage. Now you factor in  the 8.0 AA changes which she now become a AA beast at her tier with 9 long range flak clouds and she becomes a very  strong ship. I don t know what people want from her she holds her own vs higher tier competition. 

Edited by OppressorUnion

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8 minutes ago, Kenjister said:

You're right on the citadel area part, theoretically there are some cruisers that you might overpen at close range.
I did some testing though with Roma in a training room to see which citadels are possible to overpen.  The basic result was this:  any effective armor of over ~150mm) can not be overpenned past 2km out.
However, Roma had no problem overpenning Myoko (~100mm broadside) up at even 5km.  Hood's shells are significantly slower, but using Roma as a benchmark it's would be impossible for Hood to overpen the citadel of most cruisers in her matchmaking range as long as they're angled.

Also, the fuse length hardly affects overpen/pens on any cruiser or BB plating.  With Roma, the angle it requires to arm the shells is steep enough that there is only a 5 degree window or so where the shells may overpen.  However this was tested at 1km.  At effective combat ranges with Hood, I doubt you will ever find a situation where the fuse change will produce overpens.

neglecting drop in velocity, the hood would  not overpen any ship with beam greater than 11m with 0.015s fuse , given the fuse are armed, that basically means it will not over pen on any ship that has a citadel at any given range.

there are also situations where an angled cruiser's plate, or even battleship's superstructure  became  enough  to arm the fuse on Hood, with short fuse you can get penetration damage but not with normal fuse.

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9 minutes ago, OppressorUnion said:

I don't know why people are complaining about the Hood, anything stronger and she will be op.  I am not getting  any more overpen than I would any other  BB. Against BB I get less citadels but I get far more huge pen damage at all angles 10-15k hits even when I get bow on targets. I can not repeat that in other BB but on the Hood it's normal not all the time but 2/5 of the time which is huge.

Just with gun changes she is comparable to other ships at her tier in damage. Now you factor in  the 8.0 AA changes which she now become a AA beast at her tier with 9 long range flak clouds and she becomes a very  strong ship. I don t know what people want from her she hold her own vs higher tier competition. 

These are what hood could always do thanks to short fuse, you probably didn't play Hood often after 0.8 to tell the difference. to me my average damage in hood dropped from 64000 to 60000 after the patch due to overpens.

just with her gun, Hood probably is worse than every single tier7 bb, and she still does.

and as of AA, once you met a CV player that know how to dive and avoid long range aa flaks you will struggle to shoot down any plane.

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10 minutes ago, darkalex said:

there are also situations where an angled cruiser's plate, or even battleship's superstructure  became  enough  to arm the fuse on Hood, with short fuse you can get penetration damage but not with normal fuse.

This is what I'm trying to tell you isn't true - I've tested it.  We know from data mining that a 381mm gun requires 64mm of effective armor to arm, so by the time the plate is angled enough to arm the shell, the shell is practically traveling lengthwise of the ship.  This means that to arm against 25mm plating, the shell must impact at a 67 degree angle or greater to arm.  Thinner armor requires a greater angle, and 27mm armor requires 65 degrees to arm. To confirm I went into a training room with Roma (who has the same 64mm threshold as Hood, but much better velocity and normal fuses) to see if Roma overpens on cruiser plating at 1km.  At less than ~65 she always overpens, because the shells do not arm.  Add a few more degrees and suddenly she was getting consistent penetrations.

Hood has always gotten lots of overpen on broadside plating.  Unless you hit a barbette the shells can simply not arm.  I've played a good amount of Hood with 0.8.0 and I haven't noticed any major change in the number of pens/overpens.  However there are usually less targets to shoot at since CVs seem to replacing cruisers in the queue most of the time.  Perhaps that's what's causing your damage drop?

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1 minute ago, Kenjister said:

This is what I'm trying to tell you isn't true - I've tested it.  We know from data mining that a 381mm gun requires 64mm of effective armor to arm, so by the time the plate is angled enough to arm the shell, the shell is practically traveling lengthwise of the ship.  This means that to arm against 25mm plating, the shell must impact at a 67 degree angle or greater to arm.  Thinner armor requires a greater angle, and 27mm armor requires 65 degrees to arm. To confirm I went into a training room with Roma (who has the same 64mm threshold as Hood, but much better velocity and normal fuses) to see if Roma overpens on cruiser plating at 1km.  At less than ~65 she always overpens, because the shells do not arm.  Add a few more degrees and suddenly she was getting consistent penetrations.

Hood has always gotten lots of overpen on broadside plating.  Unless you hit a barbette the shells can simply not arm.  I've played a good amount of Hood with 0.8.0 and I haven't noticed any major change in the number of pens/overpens.  However there are usually less targets to shoot at since CVs seem to replacing cruisers in the queue most of the time.  Perhaps that's what's causing your damage drop?

That might be the case.....

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3 hours ago, darkalex said:

my average in Hood was 60k even before patch

I was using WoWS Stats & Numbers which has it at 48,753.

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3 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

I was using WoWS Stats & Numbers which has it at 48,753.

you probably got the wrong guy, mine currently states 59 140

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26 minutes ago, darkalex said:

you probably got the wrong guy, mine currently states 59 140

I was quoting the overall average, I didn't even look at your personal stats.. Sorry for the misunderstanding. :Smile_honoring:

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