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IfYouSeeKhaos

"Manual Fire Control For AA Armament" outpoint

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shot-19_02.03_20.03_02-0673.thumb.jpg.fffddac836132ed8a1b70a6f8c230018.jpg

The description doesn't show the nerf...

 

shot-19_02.03_19_22.28-0271.thumb.jpg.67f93f1ddb25ca47933e1fae2470ae40.jpg

shot-19_02.03_19_51.42-0033.thumb.jpg.50ac94fa2840ceb32560633a46d2a01d.jpg

In this example the Vampire usually has 150% to the buffed sector & 50% to the other sector but when the skill is applied the other sector loses efficiency & it should either:

A: Stay at the usual 50% or...

B: The skill should show (in red) the nerf.

I vote for A...shouldn't be nerfed for 4 commander skill points.

Edit: Sorry...I should have clarified originally (+ I added some extended math examples) this wasn't meant to be a discussion about AA in general but specifically about the nerf that is occurring to anybody that has taken this skill that they may not even be aware is occurring because the "red" (negative) stats aren't being shown in relation to the "other sector".

My main & only point was that the skill should show the nerf & be specific in showing exactly what is being nerfed just as any other skill does.

Especially if a person is going to spend 4 points on a skill they should be aware not only about the nerf but have the specific percentage #s (& it's not the same as the buff btw)/each individual ship.

Example of bold: In the Vampire example the ship has 150% usual AA for the chosen sector & w/the 20% buff from the skill (20% of 150 being 30) the chosen sector goes up to 180%...but the 20% you are left w/for the unchosen sector is a whole lot more than a 20% nerf to the usual 50% that the unchosen sector usually has...it's actually a 60% nerf (& there should be an additional stat titled "unchosen sector penalty" -60%...w/the -60% in red).

2nd Edit: This is something that should be changed immediately while commander respecs are free...well guess that isn't going to happen but hopefully it gets handled before the next set of respecs in 2 months.

Edited by IfYouSeeKhaos

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a skill that literally nerfs the ship AA.

BRAVO WG

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the whole sector thing is just dumb.  You get this giant wheel that blocks a good chunk of the screen, and removing the rest of the UI.(another game i played in the past had a wheel thing like this, and it was not well received.  the nickname it received was something that would probably get me banned off this forum)  Trying to use it while in combat is very annoying.  on BBs, it takes so long to switch, that it doesn't feel like its worth using.  On cruisers, i feel like you should switch off it the moment they commit to an attack(assuming you preemptively set it before they showed up), so by the time they do a 180, your sector will be switched.The sector thing only makes sense when someone attacks you from your flanks, and not from front or behind.(aka dive bombers)

 

i haven't stared at the numbers to confirm this, but i am pretty sure going from from a focus sector back to balance is the same time it takes to go from one side or the other.(it should be quicker imo to go back to balanced)  MAA only seems to be semi worth it on DDs because the switch time is quick enough. 

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24 minutes ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

shot-19_02.03_20.03_02-0673.thumb.jpg.fffddac836132ed8a1b70a6f8c230018.jpg

The description doesn't show the nerf...

 

shot-19_02.03_19_22.28-0271.thumb.jpg.67f93f1ddb25ca47933e1fae2470ae40.jpg

shot-19_02.03_19_51.42-0033.thumb.jpg.50ac94fa2840ceb32560633a46d2a01d.jpg

In this example the Vampire usually has 150% to the buffed sector & 50% to the other sector but when the skill is applied the other sector loses efficiency & it should either:

A: Stay at the usual 50% or...

B: The skill should show (in red) the nerf.

I vote for A...shouldn't be nerfed for 4 commander skill points.

One thing I don't like about the Sector Reinforcement, is the nerf'ing of the other side. I'm OK for nerf'ing the base AA for balance, but MFCAA should but the priority side and not nerf the weak side.

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3 minutes ago, Frederick_The_Great said:

the whole sector thing is just dumb.  You get this giant wheel that blocks a good chunk of the screen, and removing the rest of the UI.(another game i played in the past had a wheel thing like this, and it was not well received.  the nickname it received was something that would probably get me banned off this forum)  Trying to use it while in combat is very annoying.  on BBs, it takes so long to switch, that it doesn't feel like its worth using.  On cruisers, i feel like you should switch off it the moment they commit to an attack(assuming you preemptively set it before they showed up), so by the time they do a 180, your sector will be switched.The sector thing only makes sense when someone attacks you from your flanks, and not from front or behind.(aka dive bombers)

 

i haven't stared at the numbers to confirm this, but i am pretty sure going from from a focus sector back to balance is the same time it takes to go from one side or the other.(it should be quicker imo to go back to balanced)  MAA only seems to be semi worth it on DDs because the switch time is quick enough. 

DDs usually have a 5 second switch and MFCAA makes it 4 seconds. A 10 second switch goes to 8 seconds. A 12 second switch goes to 9.6 seconds and 20 goes to 16.

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I’d like to see the MFCAA allow you to click the planes and auto-switch the sectors with a bit more of a buff to the timings otherwise it seems a very expensive Capt skill for very little. DFAA seems to do very little now also. Don’t have any facts or figures to back up at the claim but it certainly seems that way to me.

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5 minutes ago, Bravo4zero said:

I’d like to see the MFCAA allow you to click the planes and auto-switch the sectors with a bit more of a buff to the timings otherwise it seems a very expensive Capt skill for very little. DFAA seems to do very little now also. Don’t have any facts or figures to back up at the claim but it certainly seems that way to me.

DFAA doubles the AA DPS, but that doesn't mean much for the continuous damage and planes have to fly into a flak bursts for that buff. 

 

AA definitely needs tweaking.

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29 minutes ago, Kizarvexis said:

DFAA doubles the AA DPS, but that doesn't mean much for the continuous damage and planes have to fly into a flak bursts for that buff. 

 

AA definitely needs tweaking.

Thanks for the info mate! Still early days yet and know there’s plenty tweaking they’ll be doing so I’ll grin and bear it!

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5 minutes ago, Bravo4zero said:

Thanks for the info mate! Still early days yet and know there’s plenty tweaking they’ll be doing so I’ll grin and bear it!

Same. I'm going to give WG through until 8.3, mid March to mid April as a guess, before getting bent out of shape over the balance.

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2 hours ago, Frederick_The_Great said:

the whole sector thing is just dumb.  You get this giant wheel that blocks a good chunk of the screen, and removing the rest of the UI.(another game i played in the past had a wheel thing like this, and it was not well received.  the nickname it received was something that would probably get me banned off this forum)  Trying to use it while in combat is very annoying.  on BBs, it takes so long to switch, that it doesn't feel like its worth using.  On cruisers, i feel like you should switch off it the moment they commit to an attack(assuming you preemptively set it before they showed up), so by the time they do a 180, your sector will be switched.The sector thing only makes sense when someone attacks you from your flanks, and not from front or behind.(aka dive bombers)

 

i haven't stared at the numbers to confirm this, but i am pretty sure going from from a focus sector back to balance is the same time it takes to go from one side or the other.(it should be quicker imo to go back to balanced)  MAA only seems to be semi worth it on DDs because the switch time is quick enough. 

2 hours ago, Bravo4zero said:

I’d like to see the MFCAA allow you to click the planes and auto-switch the sectors with a bit more of a buff to the timings otherwise it seems a very expensive Capt skill for very little. DFAA seems to do very little now also. Don’t have any facts or figures to back up at the claim but it certainly seems that way to me.

2 hours ago, Kizarvexis said:

DFAA doubles the AA DPS, but that doesn't mean much for the continuous damage and planes have to fly into a flak bursts for that buff. 

 

AA definitely needs tweaking.

Sorry...just wanted to point out my edit in the original OP...this wasn't supposed to be a general AA thread but had a specific purpose I didn't quite clarify w/all the data in the original OP. Edit gives details.

 

 

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3 hours ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

Sorry...just wanted to point out my edit in the original OP...this wasn't supposed to be a general AA thread but had a specific purpose I didn't quite clarify w/all the data in the original OP. Edit gives details.

 

 

I got that your post was about MAA, but it does tie in to other stuff, including that stupid sector system which was what my post was mainly directed at.  One of the main things about this skill is the time to change in sectors.  i do agree they should tell you in the skill selection that the opposite side is taking a hit. 

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7 hours ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

shot-19_02.03_20.03_02-0673.thumb.jpg.fffddac836132ed8a1b70a6f8c230018.jpg

The description doesn't show the nerf...

 

shot-19_02.03_19_22.28-0271.thumb.jpg.67f93f1ddb25ca47933e1fae2470ae40.jpg

shot-19_02.03_19_51.42-0033.thumb.jpg.50ac94fa2840ceb32560633a46d2a01d.jpg

In this example the Vampire usually has 150% to the buffed sector & 50% to the other sector but when the skill is applied the other sector loses efficiency & it should either:

A: Stay at the usual 50% or...

B: The skill should show (in red) the nerf.

I vote for A...shouldn't be nerfed for 4 commander skill points.

Edit: Sorry...I should have clarified originally (+ I added some extended math examples) this wasn't meant to be a discussion about AA in general but specifically about the nerf that is occurring to anybody that has taken this skill that they may not even be aware is occurring because the "red" (negative) stats aren't being shown in relation to the "other sector".

My main & only point was that the skill should show the nerf & be specific in showing exactly what is being nerfed just as any other skill does.

Especially if a person is going to spend 4 points on a skill they should be aware not only about the nerf but have the specific percentage #s (& it's not the same as the buff btw)/each individual ship.

Example of bold: In the Vampire example the ship has 150% usual AA for the chosen sector & w/the 20% buff from the skill (20% of 150 being 30) the chosen sector goes up to 180%...but the 20% you are left w/for the unchosen sector is a whole lot more than a 20% nerf to the usual 50% that the unchosen sector usually has...it's actually a 60% nerf (& there should be an additional stat titled "unchosen sector penalty" -60%...w/the -60% in red).

2nd Edit: This is something that should be changed immediately while commander respecs are free...well guess that isn't going to happen but hopefully it gets handled before the next set of respecs in 2 months.

I removed manual AA from all my ships, complete waste of 4 points.

I took out Baltimore with same skills and upgrades as before 0.8. and had a battle with a Lexington. The CV targeted me similar to a previous battle prior to the patch. In that battle, Baltimore downed 64 planes. This battle, 8 planes. Manual is ineffectual.

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7 hours ago, Wye_So_Serious said:

"Manual is ineffectual.

Agreed...I've never had it equipped on any of my ships...but just noticing how AA is decreased on 1 side while increasing the other w/out the skill I was curious as to how it worked w/the skill...whether the unselected side stayed where it was regularly or whether it got nerfed & the skill just didn't show the nerf...turns out it was the latter unfortunately.

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14 hours ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

I vote for A...shouldn't be nerfed for 4 commander skill points.

Agreed. I'll add that for the cost of 4 points, it is IMO the worst investment for any captain.

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Totally useless skill that was always situational and given the info in the iChase vid on why your AA sucks is possibly even detrimental now.

Currently barely reaches the power of a 1 point skill so why we have to spend an extra 3 points to get it is beyond me. Even IFHE on brittish BBs is better than this as at least it helps your terrible secondaries.

Edited by Ellyh

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I don't mind MCAA, but further weakening the non-prioritized sector is bizarre. I'm getting better at timing my switch so that prioritized sector changes the moment the planes cross over my ship, but the punishment if you are off at all is massive.

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*shift click planes* There was nothing wrong with it. Put it back. I guess that would make too much sense though.

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4 minutes ago, Vekta408 said:

*shift click planes* There was nothing wrong with it. Put it back. I guess that would make too much sense though.

Well, the shift click on planes only affected that squadron. The Sector Reinforcement affects all planes in that sector.

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22 minutes ago, Vekta408 said:

*shift click planes* There was nothing wrong with it. Put it back. I guess that would make too much sense though.

Agreed.

17 minutes ago, Kizarvexis said:

Well, the shift click on planes only affected that squadron. The Sector Reinforcement affects all planes in that sector.

That's the thing...if you want to specify a specific squadron out of the many that may be flying about (including fighter onsumables as well as attacking squads) you can't anymore & all your rounds just get spread about willy nilly w/no control from you.

In a DD especially I would rather be able to highlight the rocket attack planes & ignore the torp planes because I can more than likely dodge the torps but those rockets are much more likely to get at least 1 hit on you & if you are low on life prioritizing the almost guaranteed hit is more of a priority than scattering a bunch of those shots at torps planes & fighters that are mostly not even a threat.

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Yeah the skill is useless as designed.

I'd much rather see a return to selecting the specific focus squadron.

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2 hours ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

Agreed.

That's the thing...if you want to specify a specific squadron out of the many that may be flying about (including fighter onsumables as well as attacking squads) you can't anymore & all your rounds just get spread about willy nilly w/no control from you.

In a DD especially I would rather be able to highlight the rocket attack planes & ignore the torp planes because I can more than likely dodge the torps but those rockets are much more likely to get at least 1 hit on you & if you are low on life prioritizing the almost guaranteed hit is more of a priority than scattering a bunch of those shots at torps planes & fighters that are mostly not even a threat.

The flak bursts only attacks one squadron, but the continuous damage affects all the squadrons in range.

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53 minutes ago, Kizarvexis said:

The flak bursts only attacks one squadron, but the continuous damage affects all the squadrons in range.

Actually the continuous damage attacks only 1 plane at a time each second & it's totally RNG as to which of the planes it will attack...each second it "rolls the die" again to determine which plane it will attack & any plane in any squadron w/in it's range has just as much chance to be the target each second as any other...the flak bursts have an area of effect when they burst & all planes w/in the burst get affected by it...but it may just be all planes in a single squadron...I'm not sure about that or if it hits planes in separate squadrons if they are close enough. But if the flak bursts only attack 1 squadron it's still RNG as to which squadron the flak bursts will aim at.

You should be able to Ctrl/click squadron like before & have both the continuous damage & the flak bursts focus on 1 squadron.

I know IRL is irrelevant in a game but if a squad of torp bombers are heading for a BB & there are fighters overhead attacking your fighters & protecting the bombers all AAA guns on the BB will be focusing on those bombers & not the fighters. All squads now have the option to drop their fighter consumable & draw your AA fire off of their strike planes & you have no control over what planes your ships concentrate now.

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some intrepid CV player will figure out how to exploit the enhanced sector fire thingy via bow or stern attacks.  That arbitrary border between enhanced and not enhanced AA.  Give it a couple days and we'll see how to do it on YouTube.

The AA sector concept seems kind of goofy.  I would have luv'd to have been listening in during the WG meeting where enhanced AA sector fire was approved as being an excellent idea.  what is the basis -- I mean ok sure its an arcade game -- but come on.  Are the antiaircraft crews running from one side of the ship to the other?  Assuming this isn't a surprise attack and general quarters, or action stations has been sounded, in reality all gun mounts are going to be manned\serviced by sailors or marines during an air attack.      

Edited by SWANK_BOWZER

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12 minutes ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

Actually the continuous damage attacks only 1 plane at a time each second & it's totally RNG as to which of the planes it will attack...each second it "rolls the die" again to determine which plane it will attack & any plane in any squadron w/in it's range has just as much chance to be the target each second as any other...the flak bursts have an area of effect when they burst & all planes w/in the burst get affected by it...but it may just be all planes in a single squadron...I'm not sure about that or if it hits planes in separate squadrons if they are close enough. But if the flak bursts only attack 1 squadron it's still RNG as to which squadron the flak bursts will aim at.

You should be able to Ctrl/click squadron like before & have both the continuous damage & the flak bursts focus on 1 squadron.

I know IRL is irrelevant in a game but if a squad of torp bombers are heading for a BB & there are fighters overhead attacking your fighters & protecting the bombers all AAA guns on the BB will be focusing on those bombers & not the fighters. All squads now have the option to drop their fighter consumable & draw your AA fire off of their strike planes & you have no control over what planes your ships concentrate now.

The flak bursts only attacks one squadron, but the continuous damage affects all squadrons. The AA description in the following article is a little vague on whether the continuous AA is confined to one plane of all the squadrons or if each squadron gets continuous damage on one plane each second.

https://worldofwarships.com/en/news/development/cv8-how-to-play/#ship-aa-defense

Quote

If a ship is under attack from several squadrons, the majority of explosions from AA defense shells focuses on the first squadron, while the remaining squadrons face less intense, but equally spread, resistance. Permanent damage from AA defense mounts is always equally effective, regardless of the number of squadrons within range of the AA defenses.

 

Also, the flak bursts seem to attack multiple squadrons. Are the flak bursts divided up, or does the first squadron get the max and each extra squadron get a few? Example, say your ship puts out 7 flak bursts for that band and 2 squadrons are attacking. Does each squadron divide up the 7, say 5/2? Or does the first squadron get 7 and the second get two?

 

@iKami, @Gneisenau013, @turbo07, would you check on clarifications please?

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19 hours ago, Frederick_The_Great said:

the whole sector thing is just dumb.  You get this giant wheel that blocks a good chunk of the screen, and removing the rest of the UI.(another game i played in the past had a wheel thing like this, and it was not well received.  the nickname it received was something that would probably get me banned off this forum)  Trying to use it while in combat is very annoying.  on BBs, it takes so long to switch, that it doesn't feel like its worth using.  On cruisers, i feel like you should switch off it the moment they commit to an attack(assuming you preemptively set it before they showed up), so by the time they do a 180, your sector will be switched.The sector thing only makes sense when someone attacks you from your flanks, and not from front or behind.(aka dive bombers)

 

i haven't stared at the numbers to confirm this, but i am pretty sure going from from a focus sector back to balance is the same time it takes to go from one side or the other.(it should be quicker imo to go back to balanced)  MAA only seems to be semi worth it on DDs because the switch time is quick enough. 

The [~] & [o] should automatically switch the AA sector's to their respective sides with the paper compass doll as the only indicator.

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