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Chiman1293

After playing 25 matches in american dds this weekend. What I have found change has changed since the patch and what I have found that has not changed. And some data taken from the matches.

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I decided this weekend to play just american dds and write down the results and what happened during each match. A lot of big claims have been made since this patch and I decided to take it upon myself and see how much has any backing. Now I do want to clarify, the main thing I play are the american dds.  While I do play other things, they are what I am best at and what I have the most fun in. I also want to state that I am just an average player. I do not put up big damage numbers. I have always been more of a dd hunter and a cap contester. Now with that in mind here are the results of the games. 

 

Spoiler

Friday

Gearing Warrior's Path T10 Battle 1 dd 1 cv Victory 78177 Damage 1 Cap 0 Kills 1249 Base xp 4th in team score 60582 Spotting Damage  Survived match. Good team play. Most of my team survived.

Fletcher Shatter T9 battle 4 dd 0 cv Victory 13096 Damage 1 Cap 1 Assisted in Cap 0 Kills 1247 Base xp 6th in team score 40914 Spotting Damage  Survived match. Good team play. Most of my team survived.

Benson Two Brothers T10 battle 2 dd 2 cv Victory 2376 Damage 1 cap 0 kills 1247 base xp 8th in team score 3366 spotting damage  Killed in latter part of match. Not much support early on. Team held back while enemy took lead early. Yet despite that, late game push that took out the enemy ships and secured caps helped give us the win.

Mahan Estuary T7 battle 4 dd 1 cv Victory 25995 Damage 0 cap 1 kill 1043 base xp 6th in team score 11631 spotting damage  Survived match. Great team play. One sided battle. Whole friendly team survived
 
Farragut Northern Lights T8 battle 2 dd 2 cv Defeat 28335 damage Standard Battle 1 kill 710 base xp 8811 spotting damage Died mid to late in match. Everyone on both teams were hang near caps not wanting to push. If I was in something that had stealth firing, long range torps I would of had a crazy match. Everyone was just hanging in the back.

Nickolas Fault Line T7 battle 4 dds 1cv Defeat 14439 damage Standard Battle 0 kills 384 base xp 2366 spotting damage  Died early match. Was moving around the flank. Rounded the corner right in to a flint. Enemy team was able to get a lot of kills. Crushing defeat. 

Clemson Fault Line T5 battle 3 dds 2 cvs Victory 18493 damage Standard Battle 3 kills 822 base xp 13911 spotting damage  Died mid match. Friendly team pushed hard and was able to get kills. Good team play.

Gearing Hotspot T10 battle 3 dds 1 cv Defeat 13687 damage 0 caps 0 kills 485 base xp 1881 spotting damage  Survived. Enemy team was able to kill off most of team and take caps.

Gearing Shatter T10 battle 4 dds 1 cv Victory 11845 damage 1 assisted in cap 0 kills 1112 base xp 47604 spotting damage  Sank. Good team play. Was able to take center cap and contest east side. Team held back west side while east side push and killed the enemy. Then team moved to the western flank.

Fletcher Northern Lights T10 battle 3 dds 1 cv Defeat 76959 damage 1 cap 2 kills 1131 base xp 13050 spotting damage  Died end of match. Despite getting early caps enemy team was able secure kills and was able to wipe out entire team.


Saturday

Gearing Sleeping giant T10 3 dds 1 cv Defeat 22753 damage 0 cap 1 kill 790 base xp 9504 spotting damage  Died early mid match. Enemy pushed hard and was able to get kills.

Fletcher The Atlantic T10 4 dds 1 cv Defeat 73798 damage 0 cap 0 kill 819 base xp 21944 spotting  Died early match. Enemy pushed hard and we got over whelmed.

Mahan Two Brothers T9 3 dds 1 cv Victory 22897 damage 1 cap 1 kill 1776 base xp  26757 spotting  Good team play. We were able to take caps and get kills. Got us the victory. 

Gearing Sea of Fortune T10 3 dds 1 cv Defeat 35026 damage 0 cap 0 kill 605 base xp 68505 spotting  Survived match. Enemy pushed hard took caps and won by points.

Gearing The Atlantic T10 3dds 1 cv Defeat 14971 damage 1 cap 0 kill 360 base xp 1056 spotting  Died early match. Enemy team push while everyone else stayed in the back. Enemy team took all caps and won on points.

Gearing Sleeping Giant T10 2 dds 2 cvs Defeat 24502 damage 1 cap 0 kill 828 base xp 38579 spotting  Died mid late match. Despite getting early caps enemy team held their ground and was able to get kill and push back.

Farragut New Dawn T6 3 dds 2 cvs defeat 60309 damage 1 cap 2 kills 944 base xp 4356 spotting  Died mid late match. Enemy team was able to out kill us.

Mahan Haven T7 2 dds 2 cvs defeat 22252 damage 1 cap 1 kill 658 base xp 6239 spotting  Died late match. Enemy team was able to out kill our team.

Benson Trident T8 3 dds 1 cv victory 20548 damage 0 cap 0 kill 1127 base xp 7754 spotting  Died mid late match. Our team was able to sink the entire enemy team.

Farragut Haven T7 4 dds 0 cv defeat 14424 damage 1 cap 0 kill 773 base xp 22412 spotting  Died mid match. Enemy team lemming but were able to actually push then able to beat defeat friendly team.


Sunday

Gearing Northern Lights T10 4 dds 1 cv Victory 60337 damage 1 assisted in cap 1 kill 1697 base xp 45716 spotting  2nd in team score.  Died late match. We were able to take caps and slowly killed the enemy. Good team play.

Benson Land of Fire T8 3 dds 2 cvs Victory 9432 damage 1 cap 1 kill 1029 base xp 21059 spotting  7th in team score. Survived match. Good team play. My team took caps and were able defeat the enemey

Monaghan Haven T7 3 dds 0 cvs Victory 97993 damage Standard Battle 1 kill 1359 base xp 49876 spotting  1st in team score. Survived match. We were able to kill off the enemy team.

Mahan Haven T8 4 dds 2 cvs Defeat 77341 damage Standard battle 1 kill 870 base xp 0 spotting  1st in team score.  Died late match. Team mostly pushed one side enemy was able to kill off heavy side while coming around the flank and kill whole team.

Fletcher Hotspot T9 3 dds 1 cv Victory 37744 damage 2 cap 3 kill 1994 base xp 105001 spotting damage  1st in team score.  Survived match. Our team took one side while enemy team took other side. Crashed in the middle. Our team was able to get kills and defeated the enemy on points. Good team play.

 

There  are the results, of course what does any of it mean. How do you draw conclusions from any of that. There are several key things I want to point out.

First, dds have NOT left the game. While there were some games that only had 1 or 2 dds per team, there were still plenty of games that had 3 to 4 dds. There is still a strong dd presence in this game.

Second,  dd strategy has really not changed at all. I find for me I am still doing the same thing that I was doing since before the patch. Push in, take the caps. If it gets too hot get out. Always be in a position to make a hasty retreat. Be constantly aware of you surroundings. If the cv is coming. Turn around and regroup with your team.

What I have found that works for me is that I actually leave my aa guns off. It reduces down your detection down to around 2-3 km which helps a lot. If the cv is hunting you or going right at you. Wait until he is just about to or has detected you and turn you aa guns on. Once he has flown past you and is outside you guaranteed plane detection range, turn your aa guns back off. 

Another thing I do is I will wait until the cv is right on top of me in that 2-3 km range then I will pop smoke. I find this really useful for when trying to take caps. Once you pop your smoke you move around getting a good spread, then just hide in it. The cv will either try to blind fire you or he will leave and go and try to attack a different ship. Now granted you could get radar, but again you should always be in a position to retreat and escape.

Third, cvs do rockets does not instantly delete you. Out of all of these matches only a few did i have to deal with a cv focusing directly on me. When this does happen the actual damage from rockets is really not much. I find the bigger problem and the thing that does the most damage to me is the rest of the enemy team shooting at me. Cvs themselves really don't do much. But again if the cv is spotting you and you are being focus fired you need to run away and regroup. What I have found and have seen from other dds is the ones who are off by themselves are the ones who are instantly deleted. But the thing is, being punished for being by yourself has always been part of this game. This is a team game. Both prepatch and post patch, if you were caught out by yourself against a good amount of the enemy team. Chances are you were going to killed.

Fourth, damage is down. Now I have never put up huge numbers but i do feel that it is harder to actually do damage to the enemy team. Cvs prevent dds going off on their own and racking up huge numbers. And for those of us who focus on caps, we can push the caps but cvs either hold us back or keep us busy enough from being able to attack at the same time. There were definitely games where I was focused on dodging the cv and not trying to attack the enemy.

This is the key thing that I think is upsetting people. They want to be going on offence and not having to spend all of their time running for their lives. I know I felt this when I was being cv focused. Every time I would escape and try to turn around and go back on offence, the cv would suddenly be back on top of me and I would be running around again trying to dodge.

 

While I would write down all the info from above I think about each match and wonder if this was prepatch with the rts or if there were no cvs, would the game and my performance been any different. With the rts it would have been the same amount of dodging planes that I have to do in this. The thing is we would be seeing the same type of problems in prepatch world if there as many people playing in the post patch levels.

With no planes however I think that there would have been some improvement but not much. The thing is is that everything comes down to a match by match basis. Sometimes the cv defiantly kept me from doing as much. But even if they had not been there, the rest of the team was in the back not really doing anything. I don't really the end results would have changed. On the flip side when I did not do much but still won, there was a lot of great team play going on. So there was not a huge amount i could of done.

Another thing I want to point out is that I was using american dds. The advantage that American dds have over other nations is the longer smoke. I don't know if I could put the same thing off if I was in lets say a British or Japanese  dd who have shorter duration of smoke.

In conclusion, I think the cv rework has been a good think. I think it has changed the game around for the better. It encourages team play. Of course, people actually have to play as a team and not just sit in the back, but I like it. Don't get me wrong. I don't think it is perfect and definitely a lot that needs to be improved but I do look forward to these changes. 

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9 minutes ago, Chiman1293 said:

I decided this weekend to play just american dds and write down the results and what happened during each match. A lot of big claims have been made since this patch and I decided to take it upon myself and see how much has any backing. Now I do want to clarify, the main thing I play are the american dds.  While I do play other things, they are what I am best at and what I have the most fun in. I also want to state that I am just an average player. I do not put up big damage numbers. I have always been more of a dd hunter and a cap contester. Now with that in mind here are the results of the games. 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Friday

Gearing Warrior's Path T10 Battle 1 dd 1 cv Victory 78177 Damage 1 Cap 0 Kills 1249 Base xp 4th in team score 60582 Spotting Damage  Survived match. Good team play. Most of my team survived.

Fletcher Shatter T9 battle 4 dd 0 cv Victory 13096 Damage 1 Cap 1 Assisted in Cap 0 Kills 1247 Base xp 6th in team score 40914 Spotting Damage  Survived match. Good team play. Most of my team survived.

Benson Two Brothers T10 battle 2 dd 2 cv Victory 2376 Damage 1 cap 0 kills 1247 base xp 8th in team score 3366 spotting damage  Killed in latter part of match. Not much support early on. Team held back while enemy took lead early. Yet despite that, late game push that took out the enemy ships and secured caps helped give us the win.

Mahan Estuary T7 battle 4 dd 1 cv Victory 25995 Damage 0 cap 1 kill 1043 base xp 6th in team score 11631 spotting damage  Survived match. Great team play. One sided battle. Whole friendly team survived
 
Farragut Northern Lights T8 battle 2 dd 2 cv Defeat 28335 damage Standard Battle 1 kill 710 base xp 8811 spotting damage Died mid to late in match. Everyone on both teams were hang near caps not wanting to push. If I was in something that had stealth firing, long range torps I would of had a crazy match. Everyone was just hanging in the back.

Nickolas Fault Line T7 battle 4 dds 1cv Defeat 14439 damage Standard Battle 0 kills 384 base xp 2366 spotting damage  Died early match. Was moving around the flank. Rounded the corner right in to a flint. Enemy team was able to get a lot of kills. Crushing defeat. 

Clemson Fault Line T5 battle 3 dds 2 cvs Victory 18493 damage Standard Battle 3 kills 822 base xp 13911 spotting damage  Died mid match. Friendly team pushed hard and was able to get kills. Good team play.

Gearing Hotspot T10 battle 3 dds 1 cv Defeat 13687 damage 0 caps 0 kills 485 base xp 1881 spotting damage  Survived. Enemy team was able to kill off most of team and take caps.

Gearing Shatter T10 battle 4 dds 1 cv Victory 11845 damage 1 assisted in cap 0 kills 1112 base xp 47604 spotting damage  Sank. Good team play. Was able to take center cap and contest east side. Team held back west side while east side push and killed the enemy. Then team moved to the western flank.

Fletcher Northern Lights T10 battle 3 dds 1 cv Defeat 76959 damage 1 cap 2 kills 1131 base xp 13050 spotting damage  Died end of match. Despite getting early caps enemy team was able secure kills and was able to wipe out entire team.


Saturday

Gearing Sleeping giant T10 3 dds 1 cv Defeat 22753 damage 0 cap 1 kill 790 base xp 9504 spotting damage  Died early mid match. Enemy pushed hard and was able to get kills.

Fletcher The Atlantic T10 4 dds 1 cv Defeat 73798 damage 0 cap 0 kill 819 base xp 21944 spotting  Died early match. Enemy pushed hard and we got over whelmed.

Mahan Two Brothers T9 3 dds 1 cv Victory 22897 damage 1 cap 1 kill 1776 base xp  26757 spotting  Good team play. We were able to take caps and get kills. Got us the victory. 

Gearing Sea of Fortune T10 3 dds 1 cv Defeat 35026 damage 0 cap 0 kill 605 base xp 68505 spotting  Survived match. Enemy pushed hard took caps and won by points.

Gearing The Atlantic T10 3dds 1 cv Defeat 14971 damage 1 cap 0 kill 360 base xp 1056 spotting  Died early match. Enemy team push while everyone else stayed in the back. Enemy team took all caps and won on points.

Gearing Sleeping Giant T10 2 dds 2 cvs Defeat 24502 damage 1 cap 0 kill 828 base xp 38579 spotting  Died mid late match. Despite getting early caps enemy team held their ground and was able to get kill and push back.

Farragut New Dawn T6 3 dds 2 cvs defeat 60309 damage 1 cap 2 kills 944 base xp 4356 spotting  Died mid late match. Enemy team was able to out kill us.

Mahan Haven T7 2 dds 2 cvs defeat 22252 damage 1 cap 1 kill 658 base xp 6239 spotting  Died late match. Enemy team was able to out kill our team.

Benson Trident T8 3 dds 1 cv victory 20548 damage 0 cap 0 kill 1127 base xp 7754 spotting  Died mid late match. Our team was able to sink the entire enemy team.

Farragut Haven T7 4 dds 0 cv defeat 14424 damage 1 cap 0 kill 773 base xp 22412 spotting  Died mid match. Enemy team lemming but were able to actually push then able to beat defeat friendly team.


Sunday

Gearing Northern Lights T10 4 dds 1 cv Victory 60337 damage 1 assisted in cap 1 kill 1697 base xp 45716 spotting  2nd in team score.  Died late match. We were able to take caps and slowly killed the enemy. Good team play.

Benson Land of Fire T8 3 dds 2 cvs Victory 9432 damage 1 cap 1 kill 1029 base xp 21059 spotting  7th in team score. Survived match. Good team play. My team took caps and were able defeat the enemey

Monaghan Haven T7 3 dds 0 cvs Victory 97993 damage Standard Battle 1 kill 1359 base xp 49876 spotting  1st in team score. Survived match. We were able to kill off the enemy team.

Mahan Haven T8 4 dds 2 cvs Defeat 77341 damage Standard battle 1 kill 870 base xp 0 spotting  1st in team score.  Died late match. Team mostly pushed one side enemy was able to kill off heavy side while coming around the flank and kill whole team.

Fletcher Hotspot T9 3 dds 1 cv Victory 37744 damage 2 cap 3 kill 1994 base xp 105001 spotting damage  1st in team score.  Survived match. Our team took one side while enemy team took other side. Crashed in the middle. Our team was able to get kills and defeated the enemy on points. Good team play.

 

There  are the results, of course what does any of it mean. How do you draw conclusions from any of that. There are several key things I want to point out.

First, dds have NOT left the game. While there were some games that only had 1 or 2 dds per team, there were still plenty of games that had 3 to 4 dds. There is still a strong dd presence in this game.

Second,  dd strategy has really not changed at all. I find for me I am still doing the same thing that I was doing since before the patch. Push in, take the caps. If it gets too hot get out. Always be in a position to make a hasty retreat. Be constantly aware of you surroundings. If the cv is coming. Turn around and regroup with your team.

What I have found that works for me is that I actually leave my aa guns off. It reduces down your detection down to around 2-3 km which helps a lot. If the cv is hunting you or going right at you. Wait until he is just about to or has detected you and turn you aa guns on. Once he has flown past you and is outside you guaranteed plane detection range, turn your aa guns back off. 

Another thing I do is I will wait until the cv is right on top of me in that 2-3 km range then I will pop smoke. I find this really useful for when trying to take caps. Once you pop your smoke you move around getting a good spread, then just hide in it. The cv will either try to blind fire you or he will leave and go and try to attack a different ship. Now granted you could get radar, but again you should always be in a position to retreat and escape.

Third, cvs do rockets does not instantly delete you. Out of all of these matches only a few did i have to deal with a cv focusing directly on me. When this does happen the actual damage from rockets is really not much. I find the bigger problem and the thing that does the most damage to me is the rest of the enemy team shooting at me. Cvs themselves really don't do much. But again if the cv is spotting you and you are being focus fired you need to run away and regroup. What I have found and have seen from other dds is the ones who are off by themselves are the ones who are instantly deleted. But the thing is, being punished for being by yourself has always been part of this game. This is a team game. Both prepatch and post patch, if you were caught out by yourself against a good amount of the enemy team. Chances are you were going to killed.

Fourth, damage is down. Now I have never put up huge numbers but i do feel that it is harder to actually do damage to the enemy team. Cvs prevent dds going off on their own and racking up huge numbers. And for those of us who focus on caps, we can push the caps but cvs either hold us back or keep us busy enough from being able to attack at the same time. There were definitely games where I was focused on dodging the cv and not trying to attack the enemy.

This is the key thing that I think is upsetting people. They want to be going on offence and not having to spend all of their time running for their lives. I know I felt this when I was being cv focused. Every time I would escape and try to turn around and go back on offence, the cv would suddenly be back on top of me and I would be running around again trying to dodge.

 

While I would write down all the info from above I think about each match and wonder if this was prepatch with the rts or if there were no cvs, would the game and my performance been any different. With the rts it would have been the same amount of dodging planes that I have to do in this. The thing is we would be seeing the same type of problems in prepatch world if there as many people playing in the post patch levels.

With no planes however I think that there would have been some improvement but not much. The thing is is that everything comes down to a match by match basis. Sometimes the cv defiantly kept me from doing as much. But even if they had not been there, the rest of the team was in the back not really doing anything. I don't really the end results would have changed. On the flip side when I did not do much but still won, there was a lot of great team play going on. So there was not a huge amount i could of done.

Another thing I want to point out is that I was using american dds. The advantage that American dds have over other nations is the longer smoke. I don't know if I could put the same thing off if I was in lets say a British or Japanese  dd who have shorter duration of smoke.

In conclusion, I think the cv rework has been a good think. I think it has changed the game around for the better. It encourages team play. Of course, people actually have to play as a team and not just sit in the back, but I like it. Don't get me wrong. I don't think it is perfect and definitely a lot that needs to be improved but I do look forward to these changes. 

DD play has drastically changed. The vast majority of DDs I have played with now hide in the back with the BBs and won't spot or even try to cap. Instead they fling torps from max range hoping for a lucky hit.

Edited by Vaffu

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5 minutes ago, JoGumby said:

^^^^^^^CV player 

So constructive, to accuse anyone who disagrees with you of lying, or being a shill.

But, there's plenty of you out there.  Zero credibility to do that.

If you don't like the rework, that's fine, but accusing people of dishonesty immediately on disagreement just marks you as suspect yourself.

 

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I am a DD player.. a MAIN DD player these days and I happen to agree..

Whats worse is I main IJN DD's

I am finding DD play different..but not especially more difficult then it was pre 8.0.  Aircraft have always been a bother for DD's.  The difference is now the AA on my IJN DD's feels like it's actually doing something now.  And the IJN Gunboat line DD have turned in to Aircraft traps.. those 10cm DP guns do a real  number on strike groups.    (29 kills in a tier X match with my Premium HSF Harekaze respecced for AA yesterday.  Akizuki, Kitakaze, Harugumo should all be some what nastier as they have 8,8, and 10 gun tubes respectively over the Harekaze's 6. )

Tactics have changed slightly, and having to deal with more then one CV in a match can be a bit rugged, but the OP is dead on right.  It's no harder, nor any easier then it previously was.   

If players are not willing to get in there and learn what the demands of any particular ship and class and tier demands then yes they will do poorly.  There is no magic "I Win" Ship.  I am fairly certain that's what the devs want for their game.   Premiums have moved from more "potent" to more versatile or simply different then the national flavor to give them an edge with players facing them unfamiliar with what they can do.

CV still do the same job but it's works differently now.  One CV cannot spot the entire map for you any more.   If anything DD's are more important for a balanced force...

Well see what happens down the road.. expect the first tweeks next week or the week following as the dev teams gets the numbers and see what the ship are doing and how they're performing.  Remember this is a LIVE game so it is always.. or almost always going to be an ongoing balancing process.

 

Warlord sends

 

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I am perfectly fine with the new carrier model when there is only one carrier per side, but with two then it becomes a carrier and aircraft game and dds are removed from the picture. The issues are perma spotting and the fact that your torps are useless as they are always spotted by the air saturation. Otherwise, I find single cv game to be much fun and find that my dd performs fairly well.  Superintendent is critical because your dd will need all the smoke and speed boost that you can get. I think British smoke needs to be expanded by about 15 or 20 seconds because attack squadrons can just sit over it an wait for the smoke to clear.  But graphically and engine wise I think they have done some good things with cvs. And I have never played a cv so am not a fanboy. I also have noticed that dds that have survived to the endgame become much more valuable and they can make the difference. 

I have to agree that when you get isolated and located the constant stream of rocket attacks gets tedious and seems unbalanced. However, if they are constantly attacking you, then they are not attacking  and doing greater damage to your team mates. So, I suppose there is a silver lining there somewhere. 

 

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Good data.  Thanks for taking the time to compile it.

I've been focused by CVs pre-patch.  It is much the same, you spend all your time in defense, so you cannot take the battle to the enemy.  The thing was, and is, if you are getting focused, someone else is not.

Basics of vision and teamwork have not changed.  Some of the details have, but not the larger framework.

I think planes generate too fast for good balance, but time will tell.  Double CV may be required for reasonable queue times, but I think three is too many.

As in all things, we will have to adapt.

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16 minutes ago, Vaffu said:

DD play has drastically changed. The vast majority of DDs I have played with now hide in the back with the BBs and won't spot or even try to cap. Instead they fling torps from max range hoping for a lucky hit.

You're describing a large percentage of DD players from before the patch, too.  You see these players and it 'verifies' what you expect to happen, so it must be truth.

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1 minute ago, handybilly said:

the fact that your torps are useless as they are always spotted by the air saturation

Aircraft do not spot torpedoes anymore.  Period.  So forget about blaming CV for that.

 

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Ah, thanks for filling me in. I have also noticed that playing a newer style where I work closer with my CAs and BBs that I have not been getting radared.  I really fear it much less.  But my offensive stats have suffered. Some games I have not even launched torpedoes. 

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3 minutes ago, mavfin87 said:

Aircraft do not spot torpedoes anymore.  Period.  So forget about blaming CV for that.

Good to know, I thought it was just greatly reduced.

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23 minutes ago, mavfin87 said:

So constructive, to accuse anyone who disagrees with you of lying, or being a shill.

But, there's plenty of you out there.  Zero credibility to do that.

If you don't like the rework, that's fine, but accusing people of dishonesty immediately on disagreement just marks you as suspect yourself

 

The data, both qualitative and quantitative, is certainly a lot more helpful than the opinions (or downright misinformation) which have been populating the forums since the rework has dropped.

That being said, if you have nothing to hide, why are you posting with your alt account?

Edited by Gnomestroy

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8 minutes ago, kerensky914 said:

You're describing a large percentage of DD players from before the patch, too.  You see these players and it 'verifies' what you expect to happen, so it must be truth.

Nonsense. The majority of DDs did not hide in the back pre the CV rework.

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7 minutes ago, Gnomestroy said:

The data, both qualitative and quantitative, is certainly a lot more helpful than the opinions (or downright misinformation) which have been populating the forums since the rework has dropped.

That being said, if you have nothing to hide, why are you posting with your alt account?

Are you saying that I'm on an alt account (I don't have one), or did you quote the wrong thing?  i.e. wth are you talking about?

Edited by mavfin87

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I've been playing almost exclusively CV's post-patch (normally don't "main" in anything really). Mainly tiers 6 and 8.

From my angle, it's pretty much as summarized by OP.

  • Still lots of DD's around.
  • DD's are quite hard to kill. If they maneuver well, very hard to hit with aircraft torps. Bombs also difficult. With rockets easier, but it takes a long time. Remember, if I pester the DD, it's in 0.8.0 ALL I can do. Big investment. Do I want to spend MINUTES on this guy if there's a nice long BB broadside waiting for my torps?
  • They're not always that quick to find. Remember, only one plane squadron now, and their detectability is low.
  • DD's which are within 5-6 km of friendly CL/CA/BB and within their long-range AA are VERY difficult targets. (I'd argue in most situations optimal and non-selfish DD play doesn't take you further than this from friendlies).

TL;DR: If I'm frustrating to you, so are you to me.

There are two types of targets which really DO suffer in the new CV meta.

  • The DD player who does the lone-wolf "40-knot submarine" thing faaaar away from friendlies. Especially if focused by two CV's, they die quick.
  • The guys sitting stationary behind islands. Optimal torp targets.

To be blunt, I'm not sure it's a bad thing for the game if these guys suffer. If there are two things I hate it's stagnant island-camping and lack of team play. I'm still hopeful that CV's becoming more common can be a positive thing that enforces team play in this game.

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The irony is that Most CV players didn't get gud and didn't play much hence the rework so why should DD players have to keep getting gud no matter the changes.

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And at the OP mid tier is nothing like high tier where the DDs have to put up with much better CVs and CV players while also having to deal with radar.

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13 minutes ago, handybilly said:

Ah, thanks for filling me in. I have also noticed that playing a newer style where I work closer with my CAs and BBs that I have not been getting radared.  I really fear it much less.  But my offensive stats have suffered. Some games I have not even launched torpedoes. 

I think that overall that damage done is down for a large percentage of the player base but as people get a handle on this the numbers will come up.

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30 minutes ago, mavfin87 said:

Are you saying that I'm on an alt account (I don't have one), or did you quote the wrong thing?  i.e. wth are you talking about?

oops sorry I mistook your profile for OP's

Edited by Gnomestroy

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1 minute ago, Gnomestroy said:

oops sorry I mistook your profile for OP's

Fair enough.

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48 minutes ago, handybilly said:

I am perfectly fine with the new carrier model when there is only one carrier per side, but with two then it becomes a carrier and aircraft game and dds are removed from the picture. The issues are perma spotting and the fact that your torps are useless as they are always spotted by the air saturation. Otherwise, I find single cv game to be much fun and find that my dd performs fairly well.  Superintendent is critical because your dd will need all the smoke and speed boost that you can get. I think British smoke needs to be expanded by about 15 or 20 seconds because attack squadrons can just sit over it an wait for the smoke to clear.  But graphically and engine wise I think they have done some good things with cvs. And I have never played a cv so am not a fanboy. I also have noticed that dds that have survived to the endgame become much more valuable and they can make the difference. 

I have to agree that when you get isolated and located the constant stream of rocket attacks gets tedious and seems unbalanced. However, if they are constantly attacking you, then they are not attacking  and doing greater damage to your team mates. So, I suppose there is a silver lining there somewhere. 

 

Planes don't spot torps anymore.  That's done.

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I think it the Jpn dds that are suffering the most

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Yeah team work does seem to be key in this patch.  Its pretty easy to tell pretty early in the match which team is going to win in a lot of games.  The one that ends up in 1 giant blob behind 1 cap is autolose.  The one that does not push advantages as a group is likely to lose.  Can't say I enjoyed a couple battles I played in the Gearing (though one was entirely a misplay by me), but Tashkent and Akizuki have been relatively fun.  Unless I'm against tier 10 CVs I almost want the CV on me in those ships because of the heal or AA.

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1 hour ago, handybilly said:

I am perfectly fine with the new carrier model when there is only one carrier per side, but with two then it becomes a carrier and aircraft game and dds are removed from the picture. The issues are perma spotting and the fact that your torps are useless as they are always spotted by the air saturation. Otherwise, I find single cv game to be much fun and find that my dd performs fairly well.  Superintendent is critical because your dd will need all the smoke and speed boost that you can get. I think British smoke needs to be expanded by about 15 or 20 seconds because attack squadrons can just sit over it an wait for the smoke to clear.  But graphically and engine wise I think they have done some good things with cvs. And I have never played a cv so am not a fanboy. I also have noticed that dds that have survived to the endgame become much more valuable and they can make the difference. 

I have to agree that when you get isolated and located the constant stream of rocket attacks gets tedious and seems unbalanced. However, if they are constantly attacking you, then they are not attacking  and doing greater damage to your team mates. So, I suppose there is a silver lining there somewhere. 

 

Torps are not spoted by planes as per WG. It should be in one of the articles on the WOWS site. I have had several decent damage DD games in Multi Tier X CV games but these are all in USN and PA DDs. Honestly it helps to work with your CVs and just be aware of one other thing.

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1 hour ago, Final8ty said:

And at the OP mid tier is nothing like high tier where the DDs have to put up with much better CVs and CV players while also having to deal with radar.

I completely agree with you there. I defiantly see that in upper tier play. And of course everyone has out their aa cruisers that also happen to have radar. What is helping is some cruisers are holding a little bit father back which is giving the dds a slight edge. The flip to that is that if the cruisers push then the dds suddenly have a lot of ships focusing fire on them.

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