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demeflac

What happened to USN AA?

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I took the day to test the AA on ALL my ships, started with the one that are clássicaly strong, like Atlanta. MM had 2 tier 8 CV on red team. They kept sending planes to attack a BB Just 3km from me and I didnt kill a single plane!! Even reinforcing sector, using DFAA , AA flag, AA mod 1 and BFT!! What the hell happened? Tried with Cleveland, 2 planes kill, same build. Tried the Belfast with the same build, 12 planes kill. Tried another match just to be sure,  12 planes kill against. Móved the captain to Neptune, 40 planes kill!  Neither of these UK ships have DFAA. Has the British become the new best AA in game??

Edited by demeflac
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5 minutes ago, demeflac said:

I took the day to test the AA on ALL my ships, started with the one that are clássicaly strong, like Atlanta. MM had 2 tier 8 CV on red team. They kept sending planes to attack a BB Just 3km from me and I didnt kill a single plane!! Even reinforcing sector, using DFAA , AA flag, AA mod 1 and BFT!! What the hell happened? Tried with Cleveland, 2 planes kill, same build. Tried the Belfast with the same build, 12 planes kill. Tried another match just to be sure,  12 planes kill against. Móved the captain to Neptune, 40 planes kill!  Neither of these UK ships have DFAA. Has the British become the new best AA in game??

USN short range completely buggers the powerful mid range because the 40mms stop firing in your short range.

If short and mid were blended (20mms firing alongside 40mm, but only in their effective range) and keeping the long separated (or blending on atlanta) USN ships would feel a heck of a lot better.

But losing 10k a rocket burst from a Hak who has been spam clicking torps all game, in a DFAA reinforced des Moines, is disgusting. It's just far too easy.

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I imagine the first tweaks are on their way. Thankfully the free captain retraining has been extended a week.

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1 minute ago, Capt_Ahab1776 said:

I imagine the first tweaks are on their way. Thankfully the free captain retraining has been extended a week.

It has not been.  There will be a second free captain training period in a couple of months.

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Just now, Helstrem said:

It has not been.  There will be a second free captain training period in a couple of months.

Was it not originally just for a week? I thought it was seven days. Now extended to 2-8-2019?

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Just now, Capt_Ahab1776 said:

Was it not originally just for a week? I thought it was seven days. Now extended to 2-8-2019?

That is the original date I remember it being.

I was basing my reply to you on what @Sub_Octavian said on Reddit, that they are planning a second free captain training period in a couple months so that people can use it with knowledge of how things have settled down.

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7 minutes ago, Capt_Ahab1776 said:

I imagine the first tweaks are on their way. Thankfully the free captain retraining has been extended a week.

As long as we're being used as lab rats on this test, which is exactly what it is, Captain respecs should be free until it's over.

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1 minute ago, ReddNekk said:

As long as we're being used as lab rats on this test, which is exactly what it is, Captain respecs should be free until it's over.

I agree. I believe WG knew this was going to be like moving heaven and earth not only for themselves but a MAJOR adjustment for the players. I think they made the right move with helping the players who choose to stay by giving time to readjust free of charge.

Just speaking for myself, this has been the largest rework of the game period. It affects everything. I'm sure players who have been with it longer could comment on other major changes and how it affected the game meta as well.

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18 minutes ago, Capt_Ahab1776 said:

Was it not originally just for a week? I thought it was seven days. Now extended to 2-8-2019?

That's the documented period.  Remember that "Feb 8" means "3 AM Feb. 8", so consider that it ends on Feb. 7.

 

 

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16 minutes ago, ReddNekk said:

As long as we're being used as lab rats on this test, which is exactly what it is, Captain respecs should be free until it's over.

I have to agree.  I'm finding one week far too short to digest how this affects my ships.  And I haven't even played CVs yet.

 

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I’m having the same problem with the USN. Took DM out with dfaa and aft against two t8 cvs. 0 kills even though I was in the thick of the AA action. Then 8 kills in a z52 with no aa spec. 

I don’t know how to spec any ships. Clan friend said Atlanta was awful at AA

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The way the game tallies plane kills must be bugged.

Last night while playing the Montana I got more than 80k damage on plane kills in one match, but showing only 17 planes shot down.

Also, plane-dropped torpedo markers and their wakes aren't showing up until they're right on top of you.  Like a buffed version of DWTs.

Edited by Kuckoo

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7 minutes ago, wstugamd said:

I don’t know how to spec any ships. Clan friend said Atlanta was awful at AA

Here's JCC45's working spec for Helena.  He thinks the key is the MFCAA skill.

 

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6 minutes ago, Kuckoo said:

Last night while playing the Montana I got more than 80k damage on plane kills in one match, but showing only 17 planes shot down.

T10 USN planes have lots of HP, and there are 2-3 skills and upgrades to buff that HP.  Also, your continuous damage may be really high, but is spread across the squadron, if I understand correctly.  Damaged squadron goes home and gets rebuilt, to fly again.

I *think* the amount of damage affects the repair time, so while you haven't killed many planes, you've seriously degraded the carrier air group.  Kills aren't everything now.

 

Edited by iDuckman

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6 minutes ago, wstugamd said:

I’m having the same problem with the USN. Took DM out with dfaa and aft against two t8 cvs. 0 kills even though I was in the thick of the AA action. Then 8 kills in a z52 with no aa spec. 

I don’t know how to spec any ships. Clan friend said Atlanta was awful at AA

The latter portion at least isn't a joke - all ships with heavy long-range AA armaments got screwed, of which Atlanta is the prominent example.

Atlanta's Auras

Long-Range: 5.8 - 3.1, 5 flak bursts, 124 DPS

Mid-Range: 3.1 - 1.5, 1 flak burst, 34 DPS

Short-Range: 1.5 - 0.1, 114 DPS

 

Now compare it to noted AA powerhouse, Myoko...

Myoko's Auras

Long-Range: 5.8 - 1.9 2 flak bursts, 38 DPS

Short-Range: 1.9 - 0.1, 342 DPS

 

Yes, you are reading that correctly. Once a squadron gets through Atlanta's long-range aura, Myoko both puts up more flak bursts AND does more DPS (to the point it's literally triple the DPS of Atlanta at short-range... and Myoko's short range aura starts faster too). And given flak bursts of that low amount are fairly easily dodgeable by CVs that know what they're doing and, well...

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1 hour ago, demeflac said:

I took the day to test the AA on ALL my ships, started with the one that are clássicaly strong, like Atlanta. MM had 2 tier 8 CV on red team. They kept sending planes to attack a BB Just 3km from me and I didnt kill a single plane!! Even reinforcing sector, using DFAA , AA flag, AA mod 1 and BFT!! What the hell happened? Tried with Cleveland, 2 planes kill, same build. Tried the Belfast with the same build, 12 planes kill. Tried another match just to be sure,  12 planes kill against. Móved the captain to Neptune, 40 planes kill!  Neither of these UK ships have DFAA. Has the British become the new best AA in game??

Use AA mod 2.

Manual AA .

Bft.

These will see ok results.

Atlanta's AA got nerfed due to AFT not extending your AA range.

It is easy for a CV to stay 5.4 km out of your umbrella.

 

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13 minutes ago, NozTheWhiteDawn said:

The latter portion at least isn't a joke - all ships with heavy long-range AA armaments got screwed, of which Atlanta is the prominent example.

Atlanta's Auras

Long-Range: 5.8 - 3.1, 5 flak bursts, 124 DPS

Mid-Range: 3.1 - 1.5, 1 flak burst, 34 DPS

Short-Range: 1.5 - 0.1, 114 DPS

 

Now compare it to noted AA powerhouse, Myoko...

Myoko's Auras

Long-Range: 5.8 - 1.9 2 flak bursts, 38 DPS

Short-Range: 1.9 - 0.1, 342 DPS

 

Yes, you are reading that correctly. Once a squadron gets through Atlanta's long-range aura, Myoko both puts up more flak bursts AND does more DPS (to the point it's literally triple the DPS of Atlanta at short-range... and Myoko's short range aura starts faster too). And given flak bursts of that low amount are fairly easily dodgeable by CVs that know what they're doing and, well...

this is correct. im not really sure why atlata was given such a low flak amount. should be considerably more. theres 16 5 " guns on board, so there should be 14/16 flak clouds. at least that makes sense. im not sure what their actual formula is now.

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43 minutes ago, demeflac said:

I took the day to test the AA on ALL my ships, started with the one that are clássicaly strong, like Atlanta. MM had 2 tier 8 CV on red team. They kept sending planes to attack a BB Just 3km from me and I didnt kill a single plane!! Even reinforcing sector, using DFAA , AA flag, AA mod 1 and BFT!! What the hell happened? Tried with Cleveland, 2 planes kill, same build. Tried the Belfast with the same build, 12 planes kill. Tried another match just to be sure,  12 planes kill against. Móved the captain to Neptune, 40 planes kill!  Neither of these UK ships have DFAA. Has the British become the new best AA in game??

If the other ship was 3+km away, then the planes only entered your long range AA band.

 

Here is how the AA breaks down by range for Atlanta and by damage type. There is a small continuous DPS that hits a random plane every second and a large DPS that hits a plane that flies through a flak burst. Since the continuous damage is put on planes randomly, it usually takes a while for it to hit the same plane twice. Even then, it is a small fraction of a plane's HP. NOTE:, the AA zones do not overlap.

 

Atlanta

5.8km to 3.1km  Long Range AA

110 continuous DPS before +10% BFT DPS buff

2,240 DPS to a plane(s) when they fly through a flak burst, before +15% AFT buff. This AA band puts up 5 flak bursts per salvo, 7 with the AA Mod 1 in slot 3. Atlanta flak bursts have an 83% chance to hit the attacking squadron, mitigated to some degree by dodging.

 

3.1km to 1.5km Medium Range AA

32 continuous DPS before +10% BFT DPS buff

1,050 DPS to plane(s) when they fly through a flak burst, before +15% AFT buff. This AA band puts up 1 flak bursts per salvo, 3 with the AA Mod 1 in slot 3. Atlanta flak bursts have an 83% chance to hit the attacking squadron, mitigated to some degree by dodging.

 

1.5km to 0.1km Short Range AA

109 continuous DPS before +10% BFT DPS buff. This AA has a 79% chance to hit.

 

Now, the AA Sector Reinforcement is what we are all going to have to learn to do, like we did right clicking on a plane. The Atlanta buffs the priority sector DPS by +25% and debuffs the other side by 25%. It takes 10 seconds for the AA Sector Reinforcement to switch sides. The side that is buffed, stays buffed until the countdown to switch is done. So for Atlanta, if the planes are going to overfly you, you want to hit the Sector buff for the other side at 10ish seconds, so that it switches and follows the planes as they fly over. The MFCAA skill buffs the priority sector by another +20% and lowers the switch time by -20%.

 

So, say you reinforce the port side. It's AA DPS goes to 120% and the other side goes to 80%. If you have MFCAA, then it would be 140% and 80%. You would also have an 8 second time to swap the port sector to the starboard sector. Every ship has different values, but DDs tend to be short and BBs ten to be long, with CL/CAs in the middle.

 

 

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A big part of it is the range nerfs. You used to be able to push yout 5" guns out to 7km and your 40mms to nearly 5km.

Can't do that anymore. Your AA has less time to fire at planes both approaching and flying around your ship, which means you take a huge hit in your AA's effectiveness due to the reduction in effective range.

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Make the auras stack. The AFT nerf is incredibly galling, and Atlanta absolutely should put up the appropriate amount of flak. You can't just erase one of the main purposes for Atlanta to exist. Claiming that you need a 19 point captain skill for the ship to be remotely competitive is absolute [edited]. 

Edited by Eugenie_101

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43 minutes ago, dEsTurbed1 said:

Use AA mod 2.

Manual AA .

Bft.

These will see ok results.

Atlanta's AA got nerfed due to AFT not extending your AA range.

It is easy for a CV to stay 5.4 km out of your umbrella.

 

Atlanta and Cleveland cannot mount AA mod2. And If i pick MFCAA i have to Skip IFHE. But what happened was not that the CV remained away, It was flying right over me!

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3 minutes ago, Eugenie_101 said:

Make the auras stack. The AFT nerf is incredibly galling, and Atlanta absolutely should put up the appropriate amount of flak. You can't just erase one of the main purposes for Atlanta to exist. Claiming that you need a 19 point captain skill for the ship to be remotely competitive is absolute [edited]. 

they said they would be buffing ships known for AA if they were under performing. I think we need to relax. theres a lot of things that need fixing just on the CV end of things. if we try to fix everything at once it could go poorly

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16 minutes ago, Eugenie_101 said:

Make the auras stack. The AFT nerf is incredibly galling, and Atlanta absolutely should put up the appropriate amount of flak. You can't just erase one of the main purposes for Atlanta to exist. Claiming that you need a 19 point captain skill for the ship to be remotely competitive is absolute [edited]. 

Completely agree, Atlanta was an AA escort ship, If It cannot kill planes, unless u have a 19 point captain to put BFT, AFT and MFCAA, It is useless as AA Escort.

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15 minutes ago, demeflac said:

Atlanta and Cleveland cannot mount AA mod2. And If i pick MFCAA i have to Skip IFHE. But what happened was not that the CV remained away, It was flying right over me!

I played my Atlanta in 2 matches.

First one was a 2 CV tier 9 match.

I picked a good island spot to try to help a dd capping. 

1st of all AA cannot shoot effectively behind an island. Second, once his planes spotted me, I was not able to contribute any effective aa with that shorter ranged aa now.

Ended up getting one shotted by a yolo Izumo at 4.1 km. 

....

2nd match no carrier.

 ....

 

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1 hour ago, iDuckman said:

T10 USN planes have lots of HP, and there are 2-3 skills and upgrades to buff that HP.  Also, your continuous damage may be really high, but is spread across the squadron, if I understand correctly.  Damaged squadron goes home and gets rebuilt, to fly again.

I *think* the amount of damage affects the repair time, so while you haven't killed many planes, you've seriously degraded the carrier air group.  Kills aren't everything now.

 

I can confirm this. I have my Tier VI Ranger squadrons flying through Tier VII and Tier VIII AA and taking serious damage but still flying home in the red or yellow. I make high speed passes though so that probably helps minimize damage.

You can actually see your damage to planes if you have that feature enabled. 1,000 damage is equal to one plane so I had a game in my Gearing where I shot down maybe only 3 planes but on the end screen I had 15 planes shot down and slightly over 15,000 damage to planes so I think that might be how it works. Should also point out that my Gearing is totally unspeced for AA no mods or captain skills to boost it. AA for me so far is kind of hit and miss.

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