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enderland07

320k average Hakuryu damage is fine, right?

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I have seen a lot of people on these forums not believing how OP some of the TX CVs are and continuously defending the rework as good in its current state. Or making claims to how it's going to just be balanced, etc.

Some "small" evidence which demolishes that argument is this guy on Asia - https://asia.wows-numbers.com/player/2020696698,silver_carpSAMA/

image.png.e047aa603dad69ff3b72158471105594.png
It is hilarious to me for all the people on these forums defending CVs so actively when this sort of thing exists. People keep talking about that WG can balance them further, etc, but you know what?  It's not going to matter if CVs run rampant and cause no one to play anymore.

And yes, there are still potato CVs. But no one ever cared about potato CV games. They cared about the influence that the top tier of CV players can have on the game.  The rework has made this worse by an order of magnitude. Find me any pre-rework CV player averaging 200k a game (there are numerous people averaging 200k average now).

The only solution is nerfing CVs to badly that the average player cannot do anything with them. Providing a tool that allows good players to:

  • Travel around the map at will
  • Provide vision control (the rework made this far worse)
  • Strike ships at will

will always result in one of two situations. Either:

  1. Good players will be able to abuse it
  2. It will have to be nerfed so badly that only good players will be able to use it at all

CVs fundamentally broke naval combat for a reason. They will always do the same thing in a game that has prior to 0.8.0 almost exclusively been a surface ship simulation game.

 

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Just now, Excuse_Maker said:

I would appreciate you not stat shaming me on my other account. Thank you.

Sorry, I know that since your damage record was 441k, it's probably possible to bump that average up even higher than the mere 320k that it is.

git gud :cap_rambo::cap_cool:

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5 minutes ago, enderland07 said:

 

The only solution is nerfing CVs to badly that the average player cannot do anything with them.

 

 

See this is what I've been trying to say. WG kept the skill floor high, in fact possibly made it higher. It's not more accessible to 'average' players. So they're probably going to nerf them to bring the super unicum players in line, and we're back to the pre rework problem.

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A hak doing unicum levels in the rework?!?!?

Time to start the "Midway underpowered, hak OP" threads again.

Good on that person for making the best of there ship, hopefully this mess can be sorted out.

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1 minute ago, Carrier_Ikoma said:

 

See this is what I've been trying to say. WG kept the skill floor high, in fact possibly made it higher. It's not more accessible to 'average' players. So they're probably going to nerf them to bring the super unicum players in line, and we're back to the pre rework problem.

The only difference is that WG is going to potentially kill their game in the process.

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I wouldn't say the game is a simulation, more historically inspired.

As for CVs, the more I see the same issues that the rework tried to fix resurfacing, the more I buy into the theory all this is for WoWs Legends.

Still, we should give WG some time, there is still way to go.

Edited by warheart1992
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1 minute ago, warheart1992 said:

I wouldn't say the game is a simulation, more historically inspired.

As for CVs, the more I see the same issues that the rework tried to fix resurfacing, the more I buy into the theory all this is for WoWs Legends.

Still, we should give WG some time, there is still way to go.

I'm not going to suffer through playing against broken game mechanics so that I can play test a clearly stupid game mechanic for WG for "free."

My solution is going to be actively avoiding TX indefinitely until WG fixes how terrible they've made the gameplay. If enough people do that, WG is really going to have problems convincing us to come back.

 

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13 minutes ago, enderland07 said:

CVs fundamentally broke naval combat for a reason. They will always do the same thing in a game that has prior to 0.8.0 almost exclusively been a surface ship simulation game.

This ^^

 

IRL, Cvs ended with naval combat because they could strike and sink ships at of long range, without any risk to the ship/crew. 

 

Guess what? They do the same thing in game... This is why CVs are never going to be balanced in the game...

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9 minutes ago, enderland07 said:

I have seen a lot of people on these forums not believing how OP some of the TX CVs are and continuously defending the rework as good in its current state. Or making claims to how it's going to just be balanced, etc.

Some "small" evidence which demolishes that argument is this guy on Asia - https://asia.wows-numbers.com/player/2020696698,silver_carpSAMA/

image.png.e047aa603dad69ff3b72158471105594.png
It is hilarious to me for all the people on these forums defending CVs so actively when this sort of thing exists. People keep talking about that WG can balance them further, etc, but you know what?  It's not going to matter if CVs run rampant and cause no one to play anymore.

And yes, there are still potato CVs. But no one ever cared about potato CV games. They cared about the influence that the top tier of CV players can have on the game.  The rework has made this worse by an order of magnitude. Find me any pre-rework CV player averaging 200k a game (there are numerous people averaging 200k average now).

The only solution is nerfing CVs to badly that the average player cannot do anything with them. Providing a tool that allows good players to:

  • Travel around the map at will
  • Provide vision control (the rework made this far worse)
  • Strike ships at will

will always result in one of two situations. Either:

  1. Good players will be able to abuse it
  2. It will have to be nerfed so badly that only good players will be able to use it at all

CVs fundamentally broke naval combat for a reason. They will always do the same thing in a game that has prior to 0.8.0 almost exclusively been a surface ship simulation game.

 

balancing still needs to happen. 0.8.1 and 0.8.2 is dedicated to just that for the CV. So all numbers acquired in 0.8.0, is helping collect data for the balance.

Also, 16 battles, isn't enough data to say "Ha here's proof," You need thousands of battles, to really solidify the numbers.

 

 

6 minutes ago, Carrier_Ikoma said:

 

See this is what I've been trying to say. WG kept the skill floor high, in fact possibly made it higher. It's not more accessible to 'average' players. So they're probably going to nerf them to bring the super unicum players in line, and we're back to the pre rework problem.

Would it help if I told you I am an Average player, and I am enjoying the rework (though I haven't played tier 8 or 10, because Ryujo is my highest carrier at the moment). So it is accessible, at least to me.

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Just now, Counter_Gambit said:

balancing still needs to happen. 0.8.1 and 0.8.2 is dedicated to just that for the CV. So all numbers acquired in 0.8.0, is helping collect data for the balance.

Also, 16 battles, isn't enough data to say "Ha here's proof," You need thousands of battles, to really solidify the numbers.

Well, let me know when it's not so trivial for people to average 200k+ in CVs so I can come back to playing my favorite tier (TX). People are incredibly short sighted about how long players are willing to suffer in a game. You expect me to continue playing a game which became really lame for multiple patches just so that WG can "collect data" to fix obvious problems?

Maybe because many average players suffer continuously without really being able to pinpoint why they don't realize how much less fun the game is now for above average players.

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14 minutes ago, Counter_Gambit said:

balancing still needs to happen. 0.8.1 and 0.8.2 is dedicated to just that for the CV. So all numbers acquired in 0.8.0, is helping collect data for the balance.

Also, 16 battles, isn't enough data to say "Ha here's proof," You need thousands of battles, to really solidify the numbers.

 

 

Would it help if I told you I am an Average player, and I am enjoying the rework (though I haven't played tier 8 or 10, because Ryujo is my highest carrier at the moment). So it is accessible, at least to me.

That player is going to get better not worse.  That's after 16 battles with completely different CV mechanics.  That individual is not going to suddenly derp and forget how to damage farm to their hearts content after 50, 100, battles.

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37 minutes ago, enderland07 said:

People keep talking about that WG can balance them further, etc, but you know what?  It's not going to matter if CVs run rampant and cause no one to play anymore.

:fish_palm:

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8 minutes ago, Amenhir said:

That player is going to get better not worse.  That's after 16 battles with completely different CV mechanics.  That individual is not going to suddenly derp and forget how to damage farm to their hearts content after 50, 100, battles.

Wrong.  Everyone ELSE is going to figure out how to play against them.

Not that I think this is okay either,  mind you.  If this is due to torpedo walls and stealth torping then it needs to be looked into.

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I watched a well-known streamer play a Hakuryu last night and it was just butchery.  The reds could not even defend themselves.  I can only imagine how matters will look in a few weeks as skilled CV players get used to the new play style.  

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9 minutes ago, enderland07 said:

Well, let me know when it's not so trivial for people to average 200k+ in CVs so I can come back to playing my favorite tier (TX). People are incredibly short sighted about how long players are willing to suffer in a game. You expect me to continue playing a game which became really lame for multiple patches just so that WG can "collect data" to fix obvious problems?

Maybe because many average players suffer continuously without really being able to pinpoint why they don't realize how much less fun the game is now for above average players.

The problem may be obvious, but how one goes about fixing those problems, isn't as simple. That's where the data collecting comes in. If we don't have above average players, playing the game, then all data collected would come from average and below average players, which in turn, can cause them to balance something that shouldn't have been balanced.

But no, I do not expect anyone to suffer playing a game they do not find enjoyable. But just know the consequences of not playing (especially if too many above average players stop playing).

 

2 minutes ago, Amenhir said:

That player is going to get better not worse.  That's after 16 battles with completely different CV mechanics.  That individual is not going to suddenly derp and forget how to damage farm to their hearts content after 50, 100, battles.

16 battles, after 3 days, if that remains constant for the entire month of February, expect another 144 battles. 160 battles total would have been played. Some time this month, update 0.8.1 will drop, which could change some numbers, thus changing the way things work, which could, in turn, cause a drop in damage for carriers, at no fault to the player himself.

If that pattern continues for the month of March, then an additional 160 battles will be added for a grand total of 320 battles, some where in March, 0.8.2 will drop, which just like 0.8.1 could change the numbers in such a way, that damage output is further reduced, at no fault to the player himself.

A projected 320 battles, across all three updates concerning CV Rework. Not the 1,000 battles minimum needed to really solidify those numbers, which means, by this projection, those numbers could change drastically on the way to 1,000 battles, and it could be at no fault of the player himself, but the updates that caused just the right changes to occur, that changes those numbers.

------------------------------------------------------------------
But then, you're also ignoring another fact of all of this: If CVs remain common enough in battles, that there is at least 1-2 per match, people will learn how to counter CVs, even without an AA build, which in turn, ALSO drops the damage output of CVs.

So in 1,000 battles after the rework went live, THOSE NUMBERS CAN DROP! Either due to changes in the game from updates, or players just getting better at countering.

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31 minutes ago, enderland07 said:

gameWell, let me know when it's not so trivial for people to average 200k+ in CVs so I can come back to playing my favorite tier (TX). People are incredibly short sighted about how long players are willing to suffer in a game. You expect me to continue playing a game which became really lame for multiple patches just so that WG can "collect data" to fix obvious problems?

You make it sound like your boss is asking you to work overtime with out getting paid .'Suffer in a game' you got your priorities mixed up there's no suffering in a game . It's been 3 days and yes if you want the game to get better play the game and help them get data . Its a free game Its not that much different than it was 3 days ago . What's done is done it's not going back so help out going forward the only other choice is to quit who wants to do that ?

Edited by clammboy
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14 minutes ago, Palladia said:

Wrong.  Everyone ELSE is going to figure out how to play against them.

Not that I think this is okay either,  mind you.  If this is due to torpedo walls and stealth torping then it needs to be looked into.

Wrong. People will stop playing as the threads show. You being abused by DDs cause you don't know how to position properly  means your play style needs to be looked into not torpedoes.

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51 minutes ago, enderland07 said:

I have seen a lot of people on these forums not believing how OP some of the TX CVs are and continuously defending the rework as good in its current state. Or making claims to how it's going to just be balanced, etc.

Some "small" evidence which demolishes that argument is this guy on Asia - https://asia.wows-numbers.com/player/2020696698,silver_carpSAMA/

image.png.e047aa603dad69ff3b72158471105594.png
It is hilarious to me for all the people on these forums defending CVs so actively when this sort of thing exists. People keep talking about that WG can balance them further, etc, but you know what?  It's not going to matter if CVs run rampant and cause no one to play anymore.

And yes, there are still potato CVs. But no one ever cared about potato CV games. They cared about the influence that the top tier of CV players can have on the game.  The rework has made this worse by an order of magnitude. Find me any pre-rework CV player averaging 200k a game (there are numerous people averaging 200k average now).

The only solution is nerfing CVs to badly that the average player cannot do anything with them. Providing a tool that allows good players to:

  • Travel around the map at will
  • Provide vision control (the rework made this far worse)
  • Strike ships at will

will always result in one of two situations. Either:

  1. Good players will be able to abuse it
  2. It will have to be nerfed so badly that only good players will be able to use it at all

CVs fundamentally broke naval combat for a reason. They will always do the same thing in a game that has prior to 0.8.0 almost exclusively been a surface ship simulation game.

 

I have always respected CV players for good reason,

Most of them are smart and there is no doubt in my mind that they will get better … much better

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8 minutes ago, Commander_367 said:

I have always respected CV players for good reason,

Most of them are smart and there is no doubt in my mind that they will get better … much better

image.png.87a974e61a2582f1eee3776a496bbc4f.png

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25 minutes ago, Counter_Gambit said:

Not the 1,000 battles minimum

This shows a severe lack of understanding in statistics.  Let me demonstrate simply:

How many battles do you have above 320k damage?

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1 hour ago, enderland07 said:

almost exclusively been a surface ship simulation game.

 

Whelp, there goes all the credibility. This game is by no means a simulation, and you should know that

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10 minutes ago, GE_Capital said:

This shows a severe lack of understanding in statistics.  Let me demonstrate simply:

How many battles do you have above 320k damage?

rofl...I have a handful over 300k in my numerous battles.  Less than his 16...

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16 minutes ago, So_lt_Goes said:

image.png.87a974e61a2582f1eee3776a496bbc4f.png

I always wondered what CableGuy looked like … 

It never occurred to me he was a teenage girl?

Edited by Commander_367

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Wow people in this thread actually defending the cv mechanics that allow someone to average that high...

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