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Capt_Ozlaar

How WGs shortsightedness has damaged the game, and why it will never be fixed as long as carriers exist.

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I love playing DD's. I enjoy playing other ships but the DD's are my first love. With the addition of radar on almost every CL playing as a DD captain was a little hard to take, but oh well I made it work with a little less time playing DD's. NOW throw in 4 CV's per game. Two on each side and playing DD's is HELL. NOT FUN being harassed by not only radar, but now on top of that the CV's. What was WoWS thinking? I don't get it. AA sucks on all ships now unless the build on the ships is for AA only. DD's sink faster than ever before. Why play? I may from time to time come back and see what else WoWS has screwed up, but this is too much. It is just not fun!

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DD play has changed. You need to stick with AA ships early to discourage CVs from coming after you. If they do come after you, you have to work on your evasive maneuvers, turning into rocket strafes and bombs, and working on your unpredictability. In the mid-to-late game, it's harder for CVs to figure out where you are, and you can go back to playing them more traditionally. You've survived as a DD captain this far, you can survive the new CV heavy meta.

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8 minutes ago, SkaerKrow said:

DD play has changed. You need to stick with AA ships early to discourage CVs from coming after you. If they do come after you, you have to work on your evasive maneuvers, turning into rocket strafes and bombs, and working on your unpredictability. In the mid-to-late game, it's harder for CVs to figure out where you are, and you can go back to playing them more traditionally. You've survived as a DD captain this far, you can survive the new CV heavy meta.

Sounds like fun.

Twiddle your thumbs and be next to useless for half a game waiting for the herd to thin.

Kind of like it used to be for carriers who were bottom tier in a +2 game.

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I've played WoWS since beta. Not seriously  mind you - a few games here and there so i've always been mid tier. And just before Christmas I persuaded a few friends to give it a go. They were reluctant but we've had a blast, even spent real money.. until this patch. Played 8 games yesterday and 6 today. Not a single win. Just not fun anymore. We're constantly being matched with higher tier ships which combined with the cv changes are making it impossible to survive.

Example. In a furataka. Game starts. Guns load so 12 seconds. Am spotted by cv planes. Hit by a Nagato, down to less than half health then hit repeatedly by rockets fired from T6 carrier cos there are no T5's. Died after 2 minutes.

Did anyone actually test this? Really... We've decided to go back to Warthunder. I doubt I'll be able to get them back which is a pity

Just don't understand what this was supposed to achieve

 

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10 minutes ago, SkaerKrow said:

DD play has changed. You need to stick with AA ships early to discourage CVs from coming after you. If they do come after you, you have to work on your evasive maneuvers, turning into rocket strafes and bombs, and working on your unpredictability. In the mid-to-late game, it's harder for CVs to figure out where you are, and you can go back to playing them more traditionally. You've survived as a DD captain this far, you can survive the new CV heavy meta.

Exactly, too many DD drivers got used to no CVs in matches and now can't cope. I still remember when there were always CVs in matches and you learned to play smart as a result.

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11 minutes ago, SkaerKrow said:

DD play has changed. You need to stick with AA ships early to discourage CVs from coming after you. If they do come after you, you have to work on your evasive maneuvers, turning into rocket strafes and bombs, and working on your unpredictability. In the mid-to-late game, it's harder for CVs to figure out where you are, and you can go back to playing them more traditionally. You've survived as a DD captain this far, you can survive the new CV heavy meta.

Yeah it is going to take a little while to get this all figured out, especially as WOW have said they may fine tune some of the play based around the findings from basically live server testing.

The one thing I have notice DDs can not afford to go off and get themselves isolated. And cruisers are going to need to do a better job supporting the DDs

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1 minute ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Sounds like fun.

Twiddle your thumbs and be next to useless for half a game waiting for the herd to thin.

Kind of like it used to be for carriers who were bottom tier in a +2 game.

Hey, you can sortie out if you want to. I still do, but I also accept the fact that I'm going to have to spend the early parts of the match dodging rockets. But the OP sounds like he's really getting crapped on pretty hard by enemy aircraft, and the easiest way to mitigate that is to buddy up with a couple of cruisers and BBs early on to deny enemy CVs the chance to take that kind of initiative on you.

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3 minutes ago, Batch972 said:

 

Did anyone actually test this? Really... We've decided to go back to Warthunder. I doubt I'll be able to get them back which is a pity

Just don't understand what this was supposed to achieve

 

WOW has stated a number of times they took the game to the live servers because they could not get enough data from the test server. All they got there were carriers against speced out AA cruisers. Now they are seeing what happens to the general population. They have also said there is going to be up to 3 rebalance patches as the absorb the effects of the changes on players.

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3 minutes ago, SkaerKrow said:

Hey, you can sortie out if you want to. I still do, but I also accept the fact that I'm going to have to spend the early parts of the match dodging rockets. But the OP sounds like he's really getting crapped on pretty hard by enemy aircraft, and the easiest way to mitigate that is to buddy up with a couple of cruisers and BBs early on to deny enemy CVs the chance to take that kind of initiative on you.

Fair enough.

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8 minutes ago, 1SneakyDevil said:

Exactly, too many DD drivers got used to no CVs in matches and now can't cope. I still remember when there were always CVs in matches and you learned to play smart as a result.

Trust me, WG took care DD play by going nuts with radar in response.  Now, its just insane.

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Things have changed with CVs so people are threatening to shelve the game? I sure hope that, in real life, they are not involved in the military, civilian emergency services, or important businesses where things tend to change constantly.

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The point of the changes was to bring the influence that CVs impart on a battle in-line with the other three ship classes, and they've achieved that. Whatever tweaks that are to follow, the fundamental mechanics that they've added aren't going to change. If that means that you don't want to play the game anymore, well, good luck and fair seas.

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No, they've lost YOU.  And from a quick peak at your ships,  you haven't even tried the new CV's.  Complaining when you only have one half of the puzzle is just silly.

Furthermore,  you used an extremely poor example.  Top tier BB versus bottom tier CA.  That's rock on scissors,  AND the rock has a grenade.  But if you're being hit from across the map at the start of a match ((Which is already pretty ridiculous)) then you were going in a straight line going "La la la".  

This is you being completely unable to take responsibility for doing predictable things and being punished for it,  and instead blaming the new changes.  Nevermind that the new changes offer far, FAR less spotting for CV's then previously.  Nope!  Has to be them.

Edited by Palladia
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10 minutes ago, SkaerKrow said:

The point of the changes was to bring the influence that CVs impart on a battle in-line with the other three ship classes, and they've achieved that. Whatever tweaks that are to follow, the fundamental mechanics that they've added aren't going to change. If that means that you don't want to play the game anymore, well, good luck and fair seas.

The other three ship types risk damage to themselves every time they go to inflict it. Carriers have never risked - and still do not - anything. They strike with virtually impunity, except now they do it faster, without suffering aircraft attrition, AND they can reuse the same squadrons like a dirty towel.

If Wargaming's reaction to players who have been involved in the game for a long time, and who recoil in horror at 8.0 is the same as your own, I expect none of us will be playing this in short order.

"Don't like it? Get out."

Gladly. They ruined the reason we were here.

Edited by Battleship_AndreaDoria
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If all the work was ONLY to re-balance CV's, that would be one thing. The change to detection of the red fleet was NEVER discussed or tested. The loss of the ability to hide and avoid hostile fire was a huge part of this game. The was thrown out the porthole. Having the ENTIRE opposing team revealed in the first 45 seconds of the game changed the entire game. AND NONE OF THIS WAS TESTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It was a huge screwup on WG's part. They need to fix it FAST

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I don't think it's awful, and maybe you used an extreme example, but I do feel the pain of being spotted almost immediately. I think that is something they will tweak. I really hope so at least.

I play battleships, and it's not that bad. I did play a handful of DD games and it was kinda rough. I feel a bit bad for DD mains. But not Asashios, not one bit!  Lol

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Learned to bait radar learning to bait planes. Its a work in progress be just out side the aa bubble when planes go for you bring them into the bubble. 

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6 minutes ago, Snargfargle said:

Things have changed with CVs so people are threatening to shelve the game? I sure hope that, in real life, they are not involved in the military, civilian emergency services, or important businesses where things tend to change constantly.

Yeah, let us not forget we did all solemnly swear (or affirm) an oath to support and defend WG's profitability against all enemies, foreign or domestic.  Apparently some people didn't read the EULA before clicking "I Accept". 

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It takes between 45 seconds and 1 minute 15 seconds for the carrier planes to reach the point they can spot 80% of the map. By that time the BB's have loaded and are ready to rock. With 28K to 30K range they can concentrate on exposed cruisers and delete them with a single (lucky) salvo. The rocket fighter insure the dd's are harassed to ineffectiveness and cruisers are trying to stay alive. Any wonder everyone heads for the map edge and prays they can get out of sight?

This game is World of Tanks on the high seas. Concealment and flank shots are the way to win. And this patch just destroyed that entire meta! Any wonder people are upset?

 

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1 minute ago, mushmouthmorton said:

It takes between 45 seconds and 1 minute 15 seconds for the carrier planes to reach the point they can spot 80% of the map. By that time the BB's have loaded and are ready to rock. With 28K to 30K range they can concentrate on exposed cruisers and delete them with a single (lucky) salvo. The rocket fighter insure the dd's are harassed to ineffectiveness and cruisers are trying to stay alive. Any wonder everyone heads for the map edge and prays they can get out of sight?

This game is World of Tanks on the high seas. Concealment and flank shots are the way to win. And this patch just destroyed that entire meta! Any wonder people are upset?

 

It's worse at the lower tiers - the maps are smaller, so the spotting is both more rapid and virtually wholesale.

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16 minutes ago, Battleship_AndreaDoria said:

The other three ship types risk damage to themselves every time they go to inflict it. Carriers have never risked - and still do not - anything. They strike with virtually impunity, except now they do it faster, without suffering aircraft attrition, AND they can reuse the same squadrons like a dirty towel.

If Wargaming's reaction to players who have been involved in the game for a long time, and who recoil in horror at 8.0 is the same as your own, I expect none of us will be playing this in short order.

"Don't like it? Get out."

Gladly. They ruined the reason we were here.

This blather has always ticked me off.  Same as it does in WoT with arty.  Carriers and artillery are never meant to engage the enemy directly.  They are indirect combatants.  And it annoys the hell out of me that some people just don't get that fact!!!  You're luck that the maps aren't any larger, because carriers really ought to be something like 100 or more miles from your ships.

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3 minutes ago, mushmouthmorton said:

It takes between 45 seconds and 1 minute 15 seconds for the carrier planes to reach the point they can spot 80% of the map. By that time the BB's have loaded and are ready to rock. With 28K to 30K range they can concentrate on exposed cruisers and delete them with a single (lucky) salvo. The rocket fighter insure the dd's are harassed to ineffectiveness and cruisers are trying to stay alive. Any wonder everyone heads for the map edge and prays they can get out of sight?

This game is World of Tanks on the high seas. Concealment and flank shots are the way to win. And this patch just destroyed that entire meta! Any wonder people are upset?

 

Good.  I'm glad that the World of Sea Tanks meta is being destroyed.  I hate it with a bloody passion.  Naval combat is about fire and maneuver, not about sitting still and hiding behind islands.

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1 minute ago, Crucis said:

This blather has always ticked me off.  Same as it does in WoT with arty.  Carriers and artillery are never meant to engage the enemy directly.  They are indirect combatants.  And it annoys the hell out of me that some people just don't get that fact!!!  You're luck that the maps aren't any larger, because carriers really ought to be something like 100 or more miles from your ships.

Neat so it would take longer to be effective and longer to resupply planes.  

im ok with that.

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18 minutes ago, mushmouthmorton said:

If all the work was ONLY to re-balance CV's, that would be one thing. The change to detection of the red fleet was NEVER discussed or tested. The loss of the ability to hide and avoid hostile fire was a huge part of this game. The was thrown out the porthole. Having the ENTIRE opposing team revealed in the first 45 seconds of the game changed the entire game. AND NONE OF THIS WAS TESTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It was a huge screwup on WG's part. They need to fix it FAST

And you know this how?

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