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GrayMaulkin

Performance of full AAA Salem

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My Salem has an AAA rating of 72:

Ship mods:

  • AA Guns Mod 1
  • AA Guns Mod 2
  • November Echo Setteseven signal flag

Captain skills:

  • Advanced Firing Training
  • Manual Fire control for AA
  • I do not have Basic Firing Training however...not sure it would have made that much of a difference.

 

The enemy team had two HAKURYU CV's.

In battle I stayed with a fellow Montana to try and help keep the aircraft off of him.  I was unable, with the enemy CV's torp'ing him to death.  After he died I was soon to follow despite correctly setting my AAA quadrant facing the incoming aircraft and using my Defensive AA Fire during their attacks.  I managed to shoot down 12 planes.

I received the following damage:

  • 9,400 from assorted non-CV ships
  • 28,000 from 4 torpedo bombers
  • 8,500 from a single bomb
  • 5,700 from 6 rockets
  • 5,900 from fires and floods caused by the CV attacks.

9,400 dmg from non-CV's and 48,100 dmg from CV's

As expected, at the end of the battle it was down to only the two CV's on both sides.

From further testing, it seems to me that without the Defensive AA Fire actively working, I was not able to put out enough fire to impact the incoming aircraft at all.  A second attempt had me shoot down 13 planes but only 1 was shot down without the Defensive AA fire active.

I leave this information here for you and the WG developers to draw their own conclusion as to the balance of CV's at this time.

Edited by GrayMaulkin
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No, you are affecting them, it's just Worcester and Minotaur are too strong and make what you contribute seem ineffectual.

Edited by _Caliph_
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Great post I have had the same experience in my DM and I even had BFT as well as all the other things you mentioned.   And in my opinion, we should not have to sacrifice all of the other captain's skills to attempt to defend ourselves from a CV.  @GrayMaulkin

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2 minutes ago, _Caliph_ said:

No, you are affecting them, it's just Worcester and Minotaur are too strong and make what you contribute seem ineffectual.

I am not comparing myself to other ships....just how well I am able to defend myself against CV's....which seems to be not at all.  AFAIK The Salem/DesMoines is no slouch when it comes to AA.

Edited by GrayMaulkin

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1 minute ago, GrayMaulkin said:

I am not comparing myself to other ships....just how well I am able to defend myself against CV's....which seems to be not at all.  AFAIK The Salem/DesMoines is no slouch when it comes to AA.

Exactly and I noticed that unlike before when you choose those upgrades and captains skill your AA number does not change. So we have no idea what is better than what. 

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5 minutes ago, GrayMaulkin said:

I am not comparing myself to other ships....just how well I am able to defend myself against CV's....which seems to be not at all.  AFAIK The Salem/DesMoines is no slouch when it comes to AA.

CVs do not do large amounts of damage anymore. They do small amounts consistently at a faster pace. You are not meant to defend yourself from CVs as you once did but lower the overall damage they do all match. So if you are looking to stop a full squadron from striking you then you are not going to be happy. It isn't going to happen. What will happen is that you will stop that squadron from hitting you three times before returning to ship.

Now in conjunction with a fleet around you then you may knock down all the planes before a single attack gets through. That depends on the CVs ability to traverse the flak.

Edited by _Caliph_
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2 minutes ago, _Caliph_ said:

CVs do not do large amounts of damage anymore. You are not meant to defend yourself from CVs as you once did but lower the overall damage they do all match.

In the example above CV's did more damage to me by far....at it was fast because they could just chain attacks that I cannot avoid like I can from other ships (by taking cover behind islands, move out of range, smoke, stop firing so I am no longer detected, etc).

To make it easier I have highlighted in green the damage I took that was directly attributed to CV's

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1 minute ago, _Caliph_ said:

CVs do not do large amounts of damage anymore. You are not meant to defend yourself from CVs as you once did but lower the overall damage they do all match.

They may not do the damage they used to but they are still capable of doing damage over time like a torp hit with flooding and then back again either with more torps or bombers causing a 2nd flood or fire. Additionally, if a CV chooses you to harass damage or not he is taking you out of the game because you have to devote so much time and attention to dealing with the planes.  In my opinion there still needs to be ships in the game that the CV just knows he needs to stay away from. At this point and time, there are none except maybe Mino and Worchester and this, in turn, is making Lemming trains a bigger problem and ships just staying all bunched up together killing any hope of players being able to employ any decent flanking strats etc... 

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2 minutes ago, GrayMaulkin said:

In the example above CV's did more damage to me by far....at it was fast because they could just chain attacks that I cannot avoid like I can from other ships (by taking cover behind islands, move out of range, smoke, stop firing so I am no longer detected, etc).

To make it easier I have highlighted in green the damage I took that was directly attributed to CV's

You can't just camp behind a mountain and not take damage anymore. You can not participate in a fleet engagement in perpetual safety. I'm not understanding what you are not understanding.

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9 minutes ago, Aggressive_Behavior said:

Exactly and I noticed that unlike before when you choose those upgrades and captains skill your AA number does not change. So we have no idea what is better than what. 

Yes I agree.  It seems to me that the captain skills for AA do not really have any effect at all.  The only thing that seems to make a difference is the consumables.

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5 minutes ago, Aggressive_Behavior said:

They may not do the damage they used to but they are still capable of doing damage over time like a torp hit with flooding and then back again either with more torps or bombers causing a 2nd flood or fire. Additionally, if a CV chooses you to harass damage or not he is taking you out of the game because you have to devote so much time and attention to dealing with the planes.  In my opinion there still needs to be ships in the game that the CV just knows he needs to stay away from. At this point and time, there are none except maybe Mino and Worchester and this, in turn, is making Lemming trains a bigger problem and ships just staying all bunched up together killing any hope of players being able to employ any decent flanking strats etc... 

Welcome to naval combat. Your safety can not be assured. And no, you won't be getting immunity from X class for whatever reason you can think of. A CV that has to defend itself or a checkpoint can not be told to give up because a ship is immune to them. It's remedial to suggest and simply isn't going to happen. 

If you let yourself be taken out of the game because of planes perhaps you are overestimating how dangerous those planes are to you.

Edited by _Caliph_
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1 minute ago, _Caliph_ said:

You can't just camp behind a mountain and not take damage anymore. You can not participate in a fleet engagement in perpetual safety. I'm not understanding what you are not understanding.

I didn't say that.

I am saying there is no way to avoid the damage.  There is no skill, or module, that will make any significant difference.  There is no tactic that you can employ, like you can when engaging non-CV's.

I am not expecting to camp behind a mountain and not take damage anymore (which is pretty condescending to say ....I never expected that and that never works anyways), but I am expecting that I have some way to defend myself. And it is clear to me that the tools provided are not working in any significant way.  I leave you to make your own conclusions however. If you think it is fine as it is then great.

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2 minutes ago, _Caliph_ said:

Welcome to naval combat. Your safety can not be assured. And no, you won't be getting immunity from X class for whatever reason you can think of. A CV that has to defend itself or a checkpoint can not be told to give up because a ship is immune to them. It's remedial to suggest and simply isn't going to happen. 

If you let yourself be taken out of the game because of planes perhaps you are overestimating how dangerous those planes are to you.

Again not expecting immunity.  You are putting words in my mouth.  I am saying I have no tactic to employ whatsoever.

Do I have a way to be completely immune to non-CV's? No I don't.

But CV's have complete immunity from me.

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1 minute ago, GrayMaulkin said:

I didn't say that.

I am saying there is no way to avoid the damage.  There is no skill, or module, that will make any significant difference.  There is no tactic that you can employ, like you can when engaging non-CV's.

I am not expecting to camp behind a mountain and not take damage anymore (which is pretty condescending to say ....I never expected that and that never works anyways), but I am expecting that I have some way to defend myself. And it is clear to me that the tools provided are not working in any significant way.  I leave you to make your own conclusions however. If you think it is fine as it is then great.

You have no entitlement to avoiding damage. Sometimes you can do everything right and still be blown up. Sometimes you can do everything wrong and walk away without a scratch. CVs aren't immune to you. They are immune to your damage because you're are too scared to fail and refuse to pursue them 

Edited by _Caliph_
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Just now, _Caliph_ said:

You have no entitlement to avoiding damage. Sometimes you can do everything right and still be blown up. Sometimes you can do everything wrong and walk away without a scratch.

I never said I was entitled to avoid damage.  Anyways you continue to be condescending so I will no longer bother engaging with you.  Cheers.

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15 minutes ago, _Caliph_ said:

CVs do not do large amounts of damage anymore. You are not meant to defend yourself from CVs as you once did but lower the overall damage they do all match.

Au contraire, they can do very large amounts of damage. They just do a little at a time over and over and over.

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1 minute ago, CaptainTeddybear said:

Au contraire, they can do very large amounts of damage. They just do a little at a time over and over and over.

As they should considering they require the most work and are the most expensive to play.

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18 minutes ago, _Caliph_ said:

CVs do not do large amounts of damage anymore.

This myth needs to die.

image.thumb.png.8d215c3f13d2362e53ac769606cb6d87.png

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3 minutes ago, _Caliph_ said:

Welcome to naval combat. Your safety can not be assured. And no, you won't be getting immunity from X class for whatever reason you can think of. A CV that has to defend itself or a checkpoint can not be told to give up because a ship is immune to them. It's remedial to suggest and simply isn't going to happen.

This is not naval combat. or combat of any kind and trust me I know something about combat. This is a video "Arcade game"it's not even a simulator by any degree. It's a game where the goal by the companies standard is for it to be challenging yet fun for all. This update has made it barely playable even Wargaming themselves have admitted that the CV play versus the aa is not close to being balanced yet. The example I have was a flanking start which is not "camping behind an island"  The Meta is currently a mess and again Mr. Conway from WG said that on a live stream yesterday. All Maulkin was doing is putting forth some info for the benefit of others so maybe we can get to a good balance. 

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Watched some streams recently about the new CV game play. Here are some thoughts.

Kind of feel the AAs are more kind of RNG thing and somewhat relate to the skill of CV player you are encountering... which is other words, not really that related to the skill of surface ship players.

Which if you are in a surface ship, what you can do is switching AA sectors, maybe chance course and speed and specs more into AA, which kind of feel it isn't a real counter play. I'd rather having direct control of AA guns(and secondaries if possible) and aiming them completely manually. Which will limit the ability of engaging multiple targets, but I feel it's okay.

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1 minute ago, Rouxi said:

This myth needs to die.

image.thumb.png.8d215c3f13d2362e53ac769606cb6d87.png

Where's the myth? The CV spent 20 minutes manually attacking to average what a BB can do in a few salvos. Not  to mention its versus a bunch of remedials that still haven't learned sitting still in the back isn't safe.

Edited by _Caliph_
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3 minutes ago, _Caliph_ said:

As they should considering they require the most work and are the most expensive to play.

Careful now....you are starting to sound like you saying that CV's are entitled to dominating the playing field because they supposedly require more work and are expensive to play (which is debatable).  How about you share some data like I did that shows that what you are saying is true.

Edited by GrayMaulkin

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3 minutes ago, _Caliph_ said:

As they should considering they require the most work and are the most expensive to play.

Ok so first you said they did not do a lot of damage anymore now you are saying they do? which is it? and most expensive to play? how so? repair bill? buy the camo 50% reduction  and 20% more credits 

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5 minutes ago, GrayMaulkin said:

Careful now....you are starting to sound like you saying that CV's are entitled to dominating the playing field because they supposedly require more work and are expensive to play (which is debatable).  How about you share some data like I did that shows that what you are saying is true.

Why would anyone spend 20 minutes manually aiming shots and flying into position all while paying more to do so if they can simply sail around in a ship a fraction of the cost to play and do the same with a volley of torpedoes?

The only thing your data shows is you were attacked successfully by a CV. That's working as intended. You are no longer immune to CVs just because you spec'd AA.

*mic drop*

Edited by _Caliph_
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CV still do enormous amount of damage.

 

The difference is you're no longer getting Dev Strike by them like before... Well I still Dev Strike some DD using TB so it's not technically gone but you have more chance to avoid / find a counterplay to that. 

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