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Sumseaman

Which DDs are underperforming?

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Much smack talk has been going around how carriers are 'killing' DDs. What lines are suffering? I only have the Kami from IJN which I rarely play so I haven't tried it. US and UK seem fine. I can still push caps, still shoot down aircraft, still carefully torp, still gunfight.....I don't understand where this is coming from. Is the Russian line poor now?

This was my first test game after logging in and trying a Loyang match. Went fine. Even the other DDs did very well too. Its very often the case in other matches. It is so much fun to work with allied carriers too.

 

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All of them seem to be suffering.  The gunboats and aa specialists are doing better that the torp specialists like the IJN main line.  The higher the tier the higher the suffering.

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Just now, T_O_dubl_D said:

All of them seem to be suffering.  The gunboats and aa specialists are doing better that the torp specialists like the IJN main line.  The higher the tier the higher the suffering.

image.thumb.png.1b41fd0e3c1adfbe100f704c14773261.png

Yeah really feeling the suffering here.

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Grozovoi still seems fine. It's a t10 why is it not suffering?

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Z52 really suffering, huh?

Only the shimakaze is suffering from planes, and it always suffered from planes.

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1 minute ago, T_O_dubl_D said:

All of them seem to be suffering.  The gunboats and aa specialists are doing better that the torp specialists like the IJN main line.  The higher the tier the higher the suffering.

Ah I see. When I played the Daring too it didn't seem to be really suffering. Had to change things up a bit but still did fine. I can see how the IJN torpedo line would suffer. Many players have been going on that the patch has wrecked destroyers which as you can see from the screenshots just isn't true. 

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2 minutes ago, The_Painted_Target said:

image.thumb.png.1b41fd0e3c1adfbe100f704c14773261.png

Yeah really feeling the suffering here.

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Grozovoi still seems fine. It's a t10 why is it not suffering?

image.thumb.png.2ef2c9266af589743ca70ff1ef451d84.png

Z52 really suffering, huh?

Only the shimakaze is suffering from planes, and it always suffered from planes.

Yeah proves the point again. Nice work there too. Perhaps people though will argue that some of these DDs have decent AA. I agree about the Shima though.

Edited by Sumseaman

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1 minute ago, Wombatmetal said:

The opposition carriers also didn't perform well in this example. 

What my example? In that match they played better than ours.

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4 minutes ago, Sumseaman said:

What my example? In that match they played better than ours.

That's not relevant. If the opposition CVs are not performing well, you can still play your DD the way you always have.

If neither sets of CVs are good, game hasn't changed

Run into a good one, and DD life is miserable.

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I have all Tier 10 DD except Daring but the only DD i would play in randoms are the Gearing, Grosovoi, and KIDD, with AA mod and DFAA loaded.     My KIDD wiped out the entire squadron of Lexington rocket planes when the noob tried to pull a quick one on me in the beginning of the match by the cap, all his planes stayed far away afterward.  LOL

 

All other DD is going to get nuked, i'm parking the rest of them for now.

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18 minutes ago, Sumseaman said:

Ah I see. When I played the Daring too it didn't seem to be really suffering. Had to change things up a bit but still did fine. I can see how the IJN torpedo line would suffer. Many players have been going on that the patch has wrecked destroyers which as you can see from the screenshots just isn't true. 

Yeah I think the combination of being spotted all the time which means taking fire from other surface ships as well as direct CV damage is the main issue.  Of course CV skill has a lot to do with it as well.  I played games in my gearing where I would really work planes over and they couldn't hit me and other games where they were more crafty baiting/waiting for my DFAA to cool down and then they could not miss.

Your game above only had a couple cruisers per side so that was nice.  But if we asked your fletcher how his experience was he would probably have a different outlook than your on this particular game.  As with all things your mileage may vary and single games are not indicative of the overall pain being felt by DDs and other ships as well...even established CV players that had their world flipped upside down.

Edited by T_O_dubl_D

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6 minutes ago, Wombatmetal said:

That's not relevant. If the opposition CVs are not performing well, you can still play your DD the way you always have.

If neither sets of CVs are good, game hasn't changed

Run into a good one, and DD life is miserable.

So  true

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I think its quite apparent that destroyers can still perform though playstyle has to be adjusted. There are plenty of carriers that play well but can still be outplayed by good DDs. The old DD playstyle is obviously no longer recommended. The way some people have been going on about it though is such an overreaction. They are either slow learners or liars.

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14 minutes ago, Wombatmetal said:

That's not relevant. If the opposition CVs are not performing well, you can still play your DD the way you always have.

If neither sets of CVs are good, game hasn't changed

Run into a good one, and DD life is miserable.

This is something a lot of people overlook, on both sides of the argument. I've had great games in my DD's, particularly the Kidd because it was either left alone by CV's or attacked by CV players still learning the controls and flying into flak. I've shot down 37 planes in one game where I was heavily focused early, and 3 planes shot down in another similar game. Posting a few good screenshots doesn't paint an accurate picture (never has, but has been going on in this forum since the dawn of time). Critical thinking and objectivity are the first things we lose when we grab our pitchforks and torches. :Smile_sceptic:

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Many CV players are still getting bottom scores match after match, because there is a very large learning curve right now for those players. So, yes, it is very possible to have a normal game playing a DD, because the CVs are playing at well below what they will be playing it in a short period of time.

The issue is this, if you play a DD and come across a competent CV, you are literally made useless right now. That's the issue, not that essentially AFK levels of CV play are hurting DD play, but any competent CV shuts down a DD, and above average CV play, ruins DD play.

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25 minutes ago, Wombatmetal said:

That's not relevant. If the opposition CVs are not performing well, you can still play your DD the way you always have.

If neither sets of CVs are good, game hasn't changed

Run into a good one, and DD life is miserable.

Run into a good Atlanta and DD life is miserable too. Run into a good Khabarovsk, or Black or T-61 or Chapayev, or Minotaur etc. and DD life is miserable.

I don't think I understand your point.

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48 minutes ago, Sumseaman said:

Yeah proves the point again. Nice work there too. Perhaps people though will argue that some of these DDs have decent AA. I agree about the Shima though.

They do have decent AA compared to something like an IJN DD.

Most DD are honestly fine with just the +2 flak module, giving you a fair wall of flak. Keep in mind even if you aren't shooting down planes, each flak burst is chunking those planes for a huge amount of HP, meaning the continuous damage from BBs will quickly finish them off.

Having played both ground targets and carriers, there are definitely moments when an entire squad is just completely annihilated with nothing the cv can do.

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14 minutes ago, legozer said:

Run into a good Atlanta and DD life is miserable too. Run into a good Khabarovsk, or Black or T-61 or Chapayev, or Minotaur etc. and DD life is miserable.

I don't think I understand your point.

Yeah that's my thoughts too. Radar cruisers are still a terror to DDs at high tiers, perhaps more so than a carrier. At least you can smoke up/dodge an attack run and shoot back. Still I can see where people are coming from with those stealth build/torp DDs....

Edited by Sumseaman

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16 minutes ago, legozer said:

Run into a good Atlanta and DD life is miserable too. Run into a good Khabarovsk, or Black or T-61 or Chapayev, or Minotaur etc. and DD life is miserable.

I don't think I understand your point.

9 minutes ago, Sumseaman said:

Yeah that's my thoughts too. 

I can play around those ships.  I can't play around aircraft spotting, and still play my role.  Can it be done in a games here or there, maybe.  Acting like nothing has changes is as short sighted (or dishonest) as it gets. 

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Grozovoi has the best AA of any DD, before the rework it absolutely shredded planes. Now it can fend off some attacks when Defensive Fire is available but if the CV wants you dead you are dead.

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4 minutes ago, Sumseaman said:

Yeah that's my thoughts too. Radar cruisers are still a terror to DDs at high tiers, perhaps more so than a carrier. At least you can smoke up/dodge an attack run and shoot back. Still I can see where people are coming from with those stealth build/torp DDs....

Carriers are the biggest threat to DDs in this meta. The can select RDF on their captains, and within 30 seconds of the match starting they will have found you and attacked you. This is literally 30 seconds.

Because RDF works on planes and they have a pointer right to you.

You are their first target as you have the weakest AA. And the rest of the fleet is under an AA bubble. Later in mid match as AA mounts are lost through attrition the cruisers and battleships can be safely attacked, but in the opening phses the DDs are attacked incessantly. And because of RDF they cannot hide or sneak, and stay spotted literally 90% of the time, taking incoming fire from all. 

And all you do is dodge fire and occasionally get a snapshot in at a target of opportunity.

This is the new meta, and as carriers learn it you will see the light.

Basically carriers focus on DDs as they take no plane hits and bide their time until AAis weakened on other ships.

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23 minutes ago, legozer said:

Run into a good Atlanta and DD life is miserable too. Run into a good Khabarovsk, or Black or T-61 or Chapayev, or Minotaur etc. and DD life is miserable.

I don't think I understand your point.

The point you are missing is that the ships and those players are a known commodity with a body of work - a baseline, the rework has pretty much reset player skill and ability for the class and few managed to practice in the PTS prior to release. Right now in the live game, we have players who are essentially learning a new class for the first time and people on both sides of the aisle are trying to draw conclusions from hysterically small sets of data with a lot of unknowns.

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My issue is Three fold.

1. Gun bloom thing, 8.2 supposedly its getting fixed.

2. All the Good players are in ranked.

3. Everyone is still figuring out what do to with their hands.

You can still play DDs in this environment, you just have to be smarter then the average yogi bear now.

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The presence of CVs has always made DD play uncomfortable, and has robbed us of our vision control advantage. The update did not change that, but it has exponentially increased the number of CVs that we face. 

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