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Wombatmetal

New DD Meta

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Okay I am in the match, game starts. I am in my DD. Probably a RN DD, they handle well and have those short smokes to break cover

I hang back with the fleet, while other DDs charge towards caps and die.

If a plane comes close I dive for the AA bubble like a clownfish hiding in an anemone.

I endure the slings and arrows of insults in chat for not performing my expected roles.

Mid to end game I sortie forth to look fir targets and caps of opportunity.

Does this sound like a place to start? How can I improve the plan?

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Just now, Wombatmetal said:

Okay I am in the match, game starts. I am in my DD. Probably a RN DD, they handle well and have those short smokes to break cover

I hang back with the fleet, while other DDs charge towards caps and die.

If a plane comes close I dive for the AA bubble like a clownfish hiding in an anemone.

I endure the slings and arrows of insults in chat for not performing my expected roles.

Mid to end game I sortie forth to look fir targets and caps of opportunity.

Does this sound like a place to start? How can I improve the plan?

after 65 games in the new WOWS... the Meta......
what can I say....

SUtWhaQ.jpg

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That’s it man. You can venture beyond the bubble in more traditional smoke but yours makes that tricky. CV hunting is viable if you take a road less traveled but many CV captains will grid out when a DD goes missing. But you got the right idea. The new meta is battlegroups or teamwork if you will. Solo targets of any type are ez pickins for a decent CV captain unless you’re in an Atlanta or Belfast or something. Kidd has great AA for a DD. I was scared of them until I learned how to dodge flak.

Edited by KnifeInUrNeck

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To all DD players out there. We DD players have adapted to every change WG has thrown on us, since nerf of fire from concealment,
smoke firing detection, torpedoes detection nerf, radar, etc.
Now they have a new [edited], that is the super fast plane that focus on DD first, since u have weak AA and are ahead of the team for spotting and CAP, DD are now their favorite target.
SO lets adapt to it too, FORGET ABOUT CAPS ON EARLY GAME! We know where the radar ships like to position, behind islands. With the concealment nerf and
radar detection change the only ships that can radar a DD from concealment are other radar DD, Chapayev and Minotaur. 
FORGET ABOUT CAPS, FORGET ABOUT FARMING DAMAGE FROM BB, play smart! Try to flank and get those f..ng CV while they are busy driving their planes
the ship is on auto mode, much easier to to hit them with torps. 
OR, if u are afraid to do that, stay close to a cruiser, smoke him up, let the CV spot, their planes are much faster than u, they can get to the other side
of the map much faster than u. 
It is just my opinion, many people will say the contrary, but make a constructive critique, add something, give a new idea, be useful!
Just my 2 cents.

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So I had an ok game in my shima. One Enterprise on the enemy team. I ran to cap after he sent attack planes elsewhere, defended, smoked my team, killed a BB, then went and hunted their CV.  I'd say waiting till you see where they send planes and then moving in is wise. Also using AA from team mates too. Overall I think this rework makes team play very important. DDs play isn't dead, just takes a change in tactics. And you don't have to skirt edges as the only option. 

shot-19.02.01_16.22.08-0271.jpg

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I found that playing caps early game can work, actually. Topped the score board in both Anshan games I had, killing 4 and 2 ships, and attaining a PR of 3.3k on that average.

That said, I'm only using Anshan for the event, as it makes it a heck of a lot easier, and playing so much CV has really helped my DD play in the new meta.

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1 hour ago, demeflac said:

To all DD players out there. We DD players have adapted to every change WG has thrown on us, since nerf of fire from concealment,
smoke firing detection, torpedoes detection nerf, radar, etc.
Now they have a new [edited], that is the super fast plane that focus on DD first, since u have weak AA and are ahead of the team for spotting and CAP, DD are now their favorite target.
SO lets adapt to it too, FORGET ABOUT CAPS ON EARLY GAME! We know where the radar ships like to position, behind islands. With the concealment nerf and
radar detection change the only ships that can radar a DD from concealment are other radar DD, Chapayev and Minotaur. 
FORGET ABOUT CAPS, FORGET ABOUT FARMING DAMAGE FROM BB, play smart! Try to flank and get those f..ng CV while they are busy driving their planes
the ship is on auto mode, much easier to to hit them with torps. 
OR, if u are afraid to do that, stay close to a cruiser, smoke him up, let the CV spot, their planes are much faster than u, they can get to the other side
of the map much faster than u. 
It is just my opinion, many people will say the contrary, but make a constructive critique, add something, give a new idea, be useful!
Just my 2 cents.

Cap rushing went out with radar......

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1 hour ago, demeflac said:

To all DD players out there. We DD players have adapted to every change WG has thrown on us, since nerf of fire from concealment,
smoke firing detection, torpedoes detection nerf, radar, etc.
Now they have a new [edited], that is the super fast plane that focus on DD first, since u have weak AA and are ahead of the team for spotting and CAP, DD are now their favorite target.
SO lets adapt to it too, FORGET ABOUT CAPS ON EARLY GAME! We know where the radar ships like to position, behind islands. With the concealment nerf and
radar detection change the only ships that can radar a DD from concealment are other radar DD, Chapayev and Minotaur. 
FORGET ABOUT CAPS, FORGET ABOUT FARMING DAMAGE FROM BB, play smart! Try to flank and get those f..ng CV while they are busy driving their planes
the ship is on auto mode, much easier to to hit them with torps. 
OR, if u are afraid to do that, stay close to a cruiser, smoke him up, let the CV spot, their planes are much faster than u, they can get to the other side
of the map much faster than u. 
It is just my opinion, many people will say the contrary, but make a constructive critique, add something, give a new idea, be useful!
Just my 2 cents.

Yup. This is what people need to do. It doesn't have to be misery!

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1 hour ago, Wombatmetal said:

Okay I am in the match, game starts. I am in my DD. Probably a RN DD, they handle well and have those short smokes to break cover

I hang back with the fleet, while other DDs charge towards caps and die.

If a plane comes close I dive for the AA bubble like a clownfish hiding in an anemone.

I endure the slings and arrows of insults in chat for not performing my expected roles.

Mid to end game I sortie forth to look fir targets and caps of opportunity.

Does this sound like a place to start? How can I improve the plan?

If you venture around 5km in front of a force, the AA wall if a CV attacks you will belt the planes pretty hard and give you cover. 

 

Everyone needs to remember that the CV planes needs a lot of room to maneuver which means STACKING AA is bad but overlapping AA to cover the most area at once keeps them in flak longer and kills them faster. DDs should keep this in mind. There is a range where you can operate and we cover you with our AA and you (DDs) still act as a spotting vanguard. 

The issue is that the lemming line problem is on EVERY BOAT right now. CAs and BBs are not pushing too hard when the opportunity arises. 

This is something I cannot fault most players since it takes a lot of skill to identify those windows. It takes good map awareness to identify good position to pressure from as well - this is game that makes learning those goals very... ambiguous and slow. Sometimes out right boring. 

Especially in randoms.

 

If people were separated into elements of 3 ship groups, each element would operated in such a tactical manner as for one element to be the anvil and hold a good position, while a second element flanks wide and acts as the hammer. Contrary to popular opinion, Crossing the T (to a point) is still possible in-game... but I don't think it's possible in randoms. 

not with this many potatoes. 

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19 minutes ago, Velled said:

Cap rushing went out with radar......

However.... until the surface fleet realizes the CVs are delivering mosquito bites and move forward, most of those radar cruisers are on the back line, huddled with the rest of them.   Same with the DDs.  They're behind the AA bubble.

It might just work to the bold...

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1 minute ago, Nurhaal said:

If you venture around 5km in front of a force, the AA wall if a CV attacks you will belt the planes pretty hard and give you cover. 

 

Everyone needs to remember that the CV planes needs a lot of room to maneuver which means STACKING AA is bad but overlapping AA to cover the most area at once keeps them in flak longer and kills them faster. DDs should keep this in mind. There is a range where you can operate and we cover you with our AA and you (DDs) still act as a spotting vanguard. 

The issue is that the lemming line problem is on EVERY BOAT right now. CAs and BBs are not pushing too hard when the opportunity arises. 

This is something I cannot fault most players since it takes a lot of skill to identify those windows. It takes good map awareness to identify good position to pressure from as well - this is game that makes learning those goals very... ambiguous and slow. Sometimes out right boring. 

Especially in randoms.

 

If people were separated into elements of 3 ship groups, each element would operated in such a tactical manner as for one element to be the anvil and hold a good position, while a second element flanks wide and acts as the hammer. Contrary to popular opinion, Crossing the T (to a point) is still possible in-game... but I don't think it's possible in randoms. 

not with this many potatoes. 

Carrier jocks are bright and learning to spam recall. They come in, do one attack, and immediately recall. So no maneuvering. They launch the next squadron and boost, and if you are within 20 kilometers they will be there as fast as if they turned around for a second run.

This minimizes plane losses, and if there are some and the squadrons are under strength it has no effect, as the attackers will always be at full strength.

The pilots who turn around aren't using their full potential

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Just now, DiddleDum said:

However.... until the surface fleet realizes the CVs are delivering mosquito bites and move forward, most of those radar cruisers are on the back line, huddled with the rest of them.   Same with the DDs.  They're behind the AA bubble.

It might just work to the bold...

RPF works on attack squadrons. Hard to sneak past

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Just now, Wombatmetal said:

RPF works on attack squadrons. Hard to sneak past

Good point.   I'm still a CV noob in my T4 Hosho.    While recalling reading about RPF, I had totally forgotten about that on the planes.   o7 for the reminder.

 

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2 minutes ago, DiddleDum said:

Good point.   I'm still a CV noob in my T4 Hosho.    While recalling reading about RPF, I had totally forgotten about that on the planes.   o7 for the reminder.

 

A good strat for you is to attack only the leading DDs in the opening of a battle. The main fleet has an AA bubble that is strongest at the start. As they take hits and lose AA mounts it weakens and you can attack them with fewer losses.

So open on just the DDs at the start. 

Do one attack run, and recall. Planes take the most damage when turning around. Don't do that. Recall

Launch another squadron, which will get to target just as fast anyway

Once you hound the DD to death, look fior holes in the AA bubble and attack the fleet

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36 minutes ago, Wombatmetal said:

Carrier jocks are bright and learning to spam recall.

I know the F key to pay respects is getting massive exploits right now but it also means more time to maneuver without being harassed if they do so. CVs who do this too often do too little damage. The real jocks keep pressing the attack and are relentless. If we stay in a nice proximity and I follow you in with my BB, as an example, his attempts to rocket you to death will be severely thwarted and will either A) cause the newb to press F because they think it's a good strat or B) abandon you and maybe hit me to reduce my AA mounts or C) they press F to bring out Torps because I'm the bigger threat or D) they abandon our force altogether because we're prepared.

 

I do my best to cover you guys when I can. I actively run to friendly DDs if they're isolated and I'm not out of position to do so, but I cannot run to help out if it puts me in an easy kill scenario.

Remember, I'm worth more points to the team than you are, which means sadly... it sucks worse when I die in tight situations, point wise. It's a tough choice if I should help cover a DD to save them so I can have their tool set for spotting and torp screens, or if I should keep in cover and keep damaging other targets and save myself on the hopes of scoring cits and saving my 45pt worth of score. 

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Nothing is more hilarious then sitting on the opposite side of an island as an enemy CV in your AA specced Cleveland.

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I've been escorting DDs into caps with my Des Moines, which seems to be working pretty good. With my Gearing, I spec'd it out as a gunboat. If you are going to be spotted anyway might as well be shooting. I played it like a Gnevny in a game earlier today and it worked well. 

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47 minutes ago, Harathan said:

This seems like WG should have seen it coming. Make a halfassed effort to dodge flak, hit F after your first strike hits, rinse and repeat. Minimize losses, maximize damage. Unless that's working as intended, which would be pretty horrific.

Yeah, the recall under fire needs to go IMO.

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I play DDs mainly of late. Turning into the planes has been the best option if you are too far from the group. I stopped capping at the start and now sit back and follow the majority of the fleet. In randoms though this takes time if your team doesn't push towards any caps. Patience is the best option. If I see the enemy CV  attacking the fleet I will then look for opportunities to cap. The mad rush at the start is suicide. Trying to cap and fending off other enemy DDs gives time for CAs with radar to get close enough to radar and kill you. If you go solo the CV will track you with RF and find you. Staying with the fleet has proven best. At least for me. But I am still very frustrated at the moment.

Some suggestions would be this:

1. Have radar/hydro line of sight only. No more passing through land masses. Give the DDs a chance to be able to wisely choose their path and hiding spot when capping with all the ways to detect them now.

2. CVs using the "F" key repeatedly should be penalized each time they do so by adding a longer launch timer after each use. This will prevent the "1 strike then F key out" to save damage to planes. The limited AA defense CDs of ships will then have more value.

3. Put a limit on the distance planes can travel. Once they travel 300km (for instance) they then have to return to the CV to refuel as if they needed to re-arm. Planes that reach their travel limit cannot be F keyed to then instantly be relaunched.

4. Slow down the speed of the planes. They aren't jets. Maneuverable yes, but the speed at which they can travel from the CV (who starts in the back) to a cap for spotting doesn't allow anyone else a chance to spot as well as how quickly they can cover the map to show the entire enemy team's positions. Give other ships a chance to be able to spot the enemy.

I may be bias about these ideas but just some thoughts.

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2 hours ago, Wombatmetal said:

Okay I am in the match, game starts. I am in my DD. Probably a RN DD, they handle well and have those short smokes to break cover

I hang back with the fleet, while other DDs charge towards caps and die.

If a plane comes close I dive for the AA bubble like a clownfish hiding in an anemone.

I endure the slings and arrows of insults in chat for not performing my expected roles.

Mid to end game I sortie forth to look fir targets and caps of opportunity.

Does this sound like a place to start? How can I improve the plan?

your other job is spotting and you can’t hid in the AA bubble and do that effectively that’s why you got low Detection, you definitely can not rush in and cap without support also take a close look at the cap, there are places to hid and be protected in some, support support support, ask for it, DDs are not the 1st choice for planes to attack but they will detect you find out the ships detected range for planes and act accordingly 

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8 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

Yeah, the recall under fire needs to go IMO.

They would have to significantly shorten the aircraft restoration time then, because they can only have so many planes readied on the flight deck.  With the new mechanics, the time it takes for a single plane to be readied is longer than it used to take an entire squadron under the old mechanics.  Right now, using the Hakuryu as an example, if you lose an entire squadron of torpedo bombers then it takes 15 minutes to restore those 12 planes.  Compare that to the old CVs that were able to replace a lost squadron within 1-2 minutes, and it's clear that these new CVs need the recall mechanic to be able to make more than 2-3 attacks in the entire battle.

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I don't see a real need to have the recall mechanic except due to current changes. Leave the old timer of plane restoration as it was. Planes returning to the CV to re-arm seems fair. Ships have a reload timer. Planes re-arming should as well. Perhaps a new ability for Captains to have a consumable to instantly launch a single (back-up) squadron or something so CVs can have some defense when a DD pops up right next to them could be viable.

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16 minutes ago, Deno said:

They would have to significantly shorten the aircraft restoration time then, because they can only have so many planes readied on the flight deck.  With the new mechanics, the time it takes for a single plane to be readied is longer than it used to take an entire squadron under the old mechanics.  Right now, using the Hakuryu as an example, if you lose an entire squadron of torpedo bombers then it takes 15 minutes to restore those 12 planes.  Compare that to the old CVs that were able to replace a lost squadron within 1-2 minutes, and it's clear that these new CVs need the recall mechanic to be able to make more than 2-3 attacks in the entire battle.

Well, if you lose all your planes in one go, then you didn't need F key anyway.

I'm not saying F key has to go, just that it shouldn't be able to magically save your planes from danger.

Keep it in, just disable it when the planes are under AA fire or being chased by fighters. Get clear and then recall.

If you went running into a situation where only teleportation can save you, that was a mistake.

Having said that, perhaps something like that would necessitate lessening of AA power. Or not, wouldn't know til we tried....

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44 minutes ago, HMCS_Devilfish said:

your other job is spotting and you can’t hid in the AA bubble and do that effectively that’s why you got low Detection, you definitely can not rush in and cap without support also take a close look at the cap, there are places to hid and be protected in some, support support support, ask for it, DDs are not the 1st choice for planes to attack but they will detect you find out the ships detected range for planes and act accordingly 

Not anymore

No,  No … 

Not happening 

 …  and Wrong :)

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