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Obviously, air scouting is an integral part of naval warfare, but it's currently detrimental to ships that rely on being discreet. 

Radar is being changed so only the radar ship can directly see the detected ship, at least for the first few moments of detection, while the rest of the team is merely alerted to the detected ship's location on the map.

I think that would work well for air detection as well. Planes can already put a pretty good beatdown on most ships, so I don't think a Yamato should also be able to dev strike a light cruiser or destroyer from across the map that is only spotted by a ww2 multirole fighter. 

Planes could still alert the team to enemy movement, spoiling the plans of any would be surprise bettsux backdoor torpedo boting. Perhaps it could be a combo of marking air detected ships on the map, as well as reducing their surface detectability by 2-5km while spotted by the plane. 

Just an idea.

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modifying air detection alone won't do it.

Many people are flocking to AA cruisers right now. Many of the AA cruisers have radar. Once a team has an idea where the DD is via capping, rpf, or surface spotting, the CV can still do a pattern search and find it or have a cruiser spot it by pushing a button  from behind a rock. DDs will become cruiser huggers for awhile and that means Russian DDs.

This will take long and serious thought from Wargaming. Unfortunately all the long thought will mean that DD's will be garbage until they come up with something.

 

Personally I think the only solution is to get rid of the CVs, but that doesn't make economic sense to them.

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15 minutes ago, Prothall said:

Personally I think the only solution is to get rid of the CVs, but that doesn't make economic sense to them.

Solution would have been leaving well enough alone, but they weren’t going to do that either.

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Someone else brought it up in another thread: make plane spotting only paint targets for the carrier player. WG already has the tech for this in the changes to radar. That way carriers will still be able to find and attack ships, but targeting information will not be relayed to the rest of the team unless the CV player communicates with the team.

There could be different ways of implementing this; perhaps plane spotting has a delay before only showing up on the minimap. It could be planes cannot spot DD's or CL/CA for the rest of the team (just themselves), but super cruisers, BB's and CV's are still spotted with a delay, etc.

 

Edit: oh and RDF for planes has to go.

Edited by Alekan

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Too many things to tweak to make DDs viable again. Not the least of which what is their role now.

I think we need to do a redesign and not just patching which will spawn unforeseen consequences

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47 minutes ago, BOT_ROCKET said:

Obviously, air scouting is an integral part of naval warfare, but it's currently detrimental to ships that rely on being discreet. 

Radar is being changed so only the radar ship can directly see the detected ship, at least for the first few moments of detection, while the rest of the team is merely alerted to the detected ship's location on the map.

I think that would work well for air detection as well. Planes can already put a pretty good beatdown on most ships, so I don't think a Yamato should also be able to dev strike a light cruiser or destroyer from across the map that is only spotted by a ww2 multirole fighter. 

Planes could still alert the team to enemy movement, spoiling the plans of any would be surprise bettsux backdoor torpedo boting. Perhaps it could be a combo of marking air detected ships on the map, as well as reducing their surface detectability by 2-5km while spotted by the plane. 

Just an idea.

I can't stay undetected at will anymore!!!!!

 

 

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33 minutes ago, Prothall said:

modifying air detection alone won't do it.

Many people are flocking to AA cruisers right now. Many of the AA cruisers have radar. Once a team has an idea where the DD is via capping, rpf, or surface spotting, the CV can still do a pattern search and find it or have a cruiser spot it by pushing a button  from behind a rock. DDs will become cruiser huggers for awhile and that means Russian DDs.

This will take long and serious thought from Wargaming. Unfortunately all the long thought will mean that DD's will be garbage until they come up with something.

 

Personally I think the only solution is to get rid of the CVs, but that doesn't make economic sense to them.

Still complaining I see ? how much longer with the complaints ???

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14 minutes ago, Alekan said:

Someone else brought it up in another thread: make plane spotting only paint targets for the carrier player. WG already has the tech for this in the changes to radar. That way carriers will still be able to find and attack ships, but targeting information will not be relayed to the rest of the team unless the CV player communicates with the team.

There could be different ways of implementing this; perhaps plane spotting has a delay before only showing up on the minimap. It could be planes cannot spot DD's or CL/CA for the rest of the team (just themselves), but super cruisers, BB's and CV's are still spotted with a delay, etc.

 

Edit: oh and RDF for planes has to go.

That is not how Naval combat worked, aircraft had radios and reported positions back to ships. I for one am enjoying the heck out of the CV rework. It neuters DD's into oblivion and makes the game a more realistic representation of Naval combat where destroyers were small screening expendable ships for the fleet.

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1 minute ago, UssIowaSailor said:

That is not how Naval combat worked, aircraft had radios and reported positions back to ships. I for one am enjoying the heck out of the CV rework. It neuters DD's into oblivion and makes the game a more realistic representation of Naval combat where destroyers were small screening expendable ships for the fleet.

You mean where USN DDs both engaged more surface (with radar, against both sea and land, up to and including Battle Off Samar) and shot down more planes than any other ship class due to their position in the picket?

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4 minutes ago, UssIowaSailor said:

That is not how Naval combat worked, aircraft had radios and reported positions back to ships. I for one am enjoying the heck out of the CV rework. It neuters DD's into oblivion and makes the game a more realistic representation of Naval combat where destroyers were small screening expendable ships for the fleet.

Well sure; I'm a BB main myself. The problem is WG needs to cater to the DD audience too. If something isn't done about DD permaspotting, WG will have to make DD's even more overpowered to compensate. Then when we get games without CV's.... we're screwed even more.

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1 minute ago, NATOMarksman said:

You mean where USN DDs both engaged more surface (with radar, against both sea and land, up to and including Battle Off Samar) and shot down more planes than any other ship class due to their position in the picket?

That us only because of their sheer numbers. They were designed to be cheap and expendable.

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1 minute ago, UssIowaSailor said:

That is not how Naval combat worked, aircraft had radios and reported positions back to ships. I for one am enjoying the heck out of the CV rework. It neuters DD's into oblivion and makes the game a more realistic representation of Naval combat where destroyers were small screening expendable ships for the fleet.

"Reported positions" is exactly what my proposal does. The current air detection is more akin to laser marking. 

With a ship drawn on the map, skilled map aiming can get you some hits. Reducing the concealment makes it easier for other surface ships to spot them as well. 

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It boils down to a fundamental shift in thinking. DDs solo capping is over. Battlegroups with DD scouts staying at the edge of friendly AA range is the future. The new meta is teamwork my friends. ANY solo ship is easy pickings wether it’s a BB or DD. I don’t think wargaming will change spotting much because I have a hunch there plan from the beginning was to suppress some of the power of DDs to dictate the match. Now CVs fill that role better. That isn’t to say that it’s impossible to do well in DDs. I had a game where I was top of my team in my Ryoji and we lost and their top player was a DD that would linger within friendly AA range and reposition during squad switch and then smoke. He ended up killing me even though I focused him for 5 minutes. 

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1 minute ago, KnifeInUrNeck said:

It boils down to a fundamental shift in thinking. DDs solo capping is over. Battlegroups with DD scouts staying at the edge of friendly AA range is the future. The new meta is teamwork my friends. ANY solo ship is easy pickings wether it’s a BB or DD. I don’t think wargaming will change spotting much because I have a hunch there plan from the beginning was to suppress some of the power of DDs to dictate the match. Now CVs fill that role better. That isn’t to say that it’s impossible to do well in DDs. I had a game where I was top of my team in my Ryoji and we lost and their top player was a DD that would linger within friendly AA range and reposition during squad switch and then smoke. He ended up killing me even though I focused him for 5 minutes. 

Solo capping was never what was supposed to happen. It only happened because other ships were too afraid to scratch their paint.

The best teams always formed up behind and supported the DD, with both guns and AA to block spotting.

Except now you can't even block spotting since you have to be suicidally close to support that way now.

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DD drivers have to understand the meta changed, dont go for CAPS early game. Better use speed BOOST and flank, to go hunting CV. People are still focused on getting damage from BB,forget about that. There is a new enemy out there and hás to be neutered! While they are busy controling their planes the ship is auto mode, easy target for torpedos. LETS MAKE THE LIFE OF CV DRIVERS MISERABLE TOO!!

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It just means that capping is more deliberate now and team oriented than before which should be a good thing. Some games go 10 minutes before anyone caps and I don’t see a problem with it. It’s not as if their not fighting when both teams have spotting and great range it just makes teamwork more imperative than it was before. Solo capping happened before because of the disproportionate power DDs had to hurt larger ships with little risk to themselves. Radar was meant to help counter this but it’s utility was hit or miss. Battlegroups are the new meta.

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2 minutes ago, demeflac said:

DD drivers have to understand the meta changed, dont go for CAPS early game. Better use speed BOOST and flank, to go hunting CV. People are still focused on getting damage from BB,forget about that. There is a new enemy out there and hás to be neutered! While they are busy controling their planes the ship is auto mode, easy target for torpedos. LETS MAKE THE LIFE OF CV DRIVERS MISERABLE TOO!!

one radar CA, supporting the CV, to intercept any DDs trying this will not result in an unhappy CV skipper. there's only one flank per side on the map, it's not that hard to spot anything attempting a flank.

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With the concealment and radar change u can spot a Cruiser way before It can radar u.

4 minutes ago, Spud_butt said:

one radar CA, supporting the CV, to intercept any DDs trying this will not result in an unhappy CV skipper. there's only one flank per side on the map, it's not that hard to spot anything attempting a flank.

 

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3 minutes ago, demeflac said:

With the concealment and radar change u can spot a Cruiser way before It can radar u.

 

depends on the ship. cause the american line is still ok besides the salem and MO' . Russians probably wouldnt be doing something like that cause except for the chappy  and not sure how that fared .  

 

 

Anyway i dont think it should be limited to DD's . CA's have it tough too . and Bottom tiered there AA seems to be worse RNG then x'mas crate ship drops.  

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17 minutes ago, EyE_dYe_QuIck said:

depends on the ship. cause the american line is still ok besides the salem and MO' . Russians probably wouldnt be doing something like that cause except for the chappy  and not sure how that fared .  

 

 

Anyway i dont think it should be limited to DD's . CA's have it tough too . and Bottom tiered there AA seems to be worse RNG then x'mas crate ship drops.  

The only ships that can radar u from concealment right now are radar DD, Chapayev and Minotaur. Now even  Belfast cant do that anymore.

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3 hours ago, KURT_WOLFF said:

Still complaining I see ? how much longer with the complaints ???

I am voicing my opinion.

I don't like the direction the game is taking.

You are voicing your opinion. You disagree.

That's fine.

I will continue to be vocal and seek change that makes the game fun for me.

Once I get to the point where I feel I am wasting my time I WILL shut up.

I promise you that.

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Honestly in my Shimmy if I had 0.5 KM less air detection it would make a world of difference and I wouldn't have any issues playing it how I did pre patch.

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