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KaptainKaybe

Guys, you NEED to play all surface ships if Wargaming is to balance anything!

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As above.

Yes, I know it sucks to be a DD right now. I feel you. I'm very much pro-rework and even I have zero urge to play a DD at the moment. But I also know we HAVE to play DDs right now. *Especially* right now. We need to make sure that there are two or three DDs per match instead of just one due to single squad vs multiple squad spotting changes.

We also NEED every other ship type played with a variety of builds, even if some ships seem weaker or stronger on AA than before.

Wargaming needs data, guys. That's how they balance stuff out. Player feedback only goes so far if it's not backup by cold hard numbers. And if Wargaming sees many thousands of DD games where their average survivability has piummeted significantly, then they'll either buff DDs, or change CV mechanics so that spotting is not as much of a concern.

Now is not the time to quit. Not unless you want things to stay as they are. I don't mean to sound preachy, but it's true.

So tough it out and let Wargaming try and fix it. Or, you know, just quit to find other games because you refuse to deal with or assist with changes. Your call. What's more important to you ... your stats or the overall health of the game?

Edited by KaptainKaybe
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Wargaming needs data, guys. That's how they balance stuff out.

ahahaha

That is a very good joke.

Feel free to cite the last time a balance change was based on data.

I will wait.

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Fair, I have been playing mainly AA boats. Am open for doubloon donations to help ease my suffering. Woe will be me, the average chicken nugget, in the face of a new cv menace.   

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If people only play the ships with the best AA, WG is going to get the wrong idea about what's going on with aircraft vs AA. 

Maybe WG should set up some reward missions to entice players to play some ships from the list of those that had their AA gutted by the new mechanics. 

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I play games to have fun and get a bit away from everyday life, WoWs included. At the moment, and this is my subjective opinion, I don't have fun in Random Battles. Why should I get frustrated with a game when often my everyday life is filled already with frustration?

Edited by warheart1992
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5 minutes ago, KnyxUDL said:

ahahaha

That is a very good joke.

Feel free to cite the last time a balance change was based on data.

I will wait.

You mean aside from that huge mess of ships that recently got buffed because they were underperforming compared to their peers? Or the recent radar changes? Or any number of other game mechanics or individual ship buffs/nerfs in the past?

What ... you think Wargaming changed those just because some players posted a couple of threads here and there saying the ship is weak? Wargaming loves feedback, but they've also stated on numerous occasions that feedback alone won't help them balance anything.

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10 minutes ago, KaptainKaybe said:

As above.

Yes, I know it sucks to be a DD right now. I feel you. I'm very much pro-rework and even I have zero urge to play a DD at the moment. But I also know we HAVE to play DDs right now. *Especially* right now. We need to make sure that there are two or three DDs per match instead of just one due to single squad vs multiple squad spotting changes.

We also NEED every other ship type played with a variety of builds, even if some ships seem weaker or stronger on AA than before.

Wargaming needs data, guys. That's how they balance stuff out. Player feedback only goes so far if it's not backup by cold hard numbers. And if Wargaming sees many thousands of DD games where their average survivability has piummeted significantly, then they'll either buff DDs, or change CV mechanics so that spotting is not as much of a concern.

Now is not the time to quit. Not unless you want things to stay as they are. I don't mean to sound preachy, but it's true.

So tough it out and let Wargaming try and fix it. Or, you know, just quit to find other games because you refuse to deal with or assist with changes. Your call. What's more important to you ... your stats or the overall health of the game?

Just no.

I play games to have fun, and there is nothing fun at the moment playing DDs. I did not ask to be a beta tester, and even if i had, Wargaming doesn't care about the feedback they gave. Right now i wish i had not bought premium time previously... If Wargaming wants my data, they can at least give me one free month.

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2 minutes ago, KaptainKaybe said:

You mean aside from that huge mess of ships that recently got buffed because they were underperforming compared to their peers? Or the recent radar changes? Or any number of other game mechanics or individual ship buffs/nerfs in the past?

What ... you think Wargaming changed those just because some players posted a couple of threads here and there saying the ship is weak? Wargaming loves feedback, but they've also stated on numerous occasions that feedback alone won't help them balance anything.

1.) "underperforming compared to their peers" - I did not realize that the game required you to ONLY fight and interact with your peers. Reiterating something akin to "The world is flat" just because WG states it, isn't going to somehow make it correct.

2.) The performance data had nothing to do with radar changes, and they still failed in said change.

3.) "Any number...."   and yet almost every patch with nerfs and buffs are contradictory to said data.

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2 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

If people only play the ships with the best AA, WG is going to get the wrong idea about what's going on with aircraft vs AA. 

Maybe WG should set up some reward missions to entice players to play some ships from the list of those that had their AA gutted by the new mechanics. 

That's actually not a bad idea. Or rather, not necessarily a reward system to play specific ships as much as they should add a reward system for playing as many different ships as possible since you have to balance all ships, not just a few. Something like the snowflake event would work wonders here as long as it only works in Random this time.

And agreed on the fact that many players are playing heavy AA builds or ships. It's why I created that poll yesterday so everyone is aware roughly how AA specced ships are overall (to an extent ... sample size is small). That is especially relevant for CV players themselves since it gives them an idea on whether or not the current deadly nature of AA is the default or not.

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11 minutes ago, KaptainKaybe said:

As above.

Yes, I know it sucks to be a DD right now. I feel you. I'm very much pro-rework and even I have zero urge to play a DD at the moment. But I also know we HAVE to play DDs right now. *Especially* right now. We need to make sure that there are two or three DDs per match instead of just one due to single squad vs multiple squad spotting changes.

We also NEED every other ship type played with a variety of builds, even if some ships seem weaker or stronger on AA than before.

Wargaming needs data, guys. That's how they balance stuff out. Player feedback only goes so far if it's not backup by cold hard numbers. And if Wargaming sees many thousands of DD games where their average survivability has piummeted significantly, then they'll either buff DDs, or change CV mechanics so that spotting is not as much of a concern.

Now is not the time to quit. Not unless you want things to stay as they are. I don't mean to sound preachy, but it's true.

So tough it out and let Wargaming try and fix it. Or, you know, just quit to find other games because you refuse to deal with or assist with changes. Your call. What's more important to you ... your stats or the overall health of the game?

Nope. I didn't sign up to help beta test things for WG and i most certainly will spend my time doing something fun which this game is not now. I opted out and i'm happy i did. If the game suffers because players are leaving and not playing then i say good. WG needs to learn the hard way that they can push the players only so far before we leave and play other things.

WG could also stop being a bunch of misers with the PTS and offer rewards actually worth playing the PTS for.

Bottom line is WG made this bed and now they must lay in it.

 

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15 minutes ago, KaptainKaybe said:

As above.

Yes, I know it sucks to be a DD right now. I feel you. I'm very much pro-rework and even I have zero urge to play a DD at the moment. But I also know we HAVE to play DDs right now. *Especially* right now. We need to make sure that there are two or three DDs per match instead of just one due to single squad vs multiple squad spotting changes.

We also NEED every other ship type played with a variety of builds, even if some ships seem weaker or stronger on AA than before.

Wargaming needs data, guys. That's how they balance stuff out. Player feedback only goes so far if it's not backup by cold hard numbers. And if Wargaming sees many thousands of DD games where their average survivability has piummeted significantly, then they'll either buff DDs, or change CV mechanics so that spotting is not as much of a concern.

Now is not the time to quit. Not unless you want things to stay as they are. I don't mean to sound preachy, but it's true.

So tough it out and let Wargaming try and fix it. Or, you know, just quit to find other games because you refuse to deal with or assist with changes. Your call. What's more important to you ... your stats or the overall health of the game?

Totally agree.

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1 minute ago, warheart1992 said:

I play games to have fun and get a bit away from everyday life, WoWs included. At the moment, and this is my subjective opinion, I don't have fun in Random Battles. Why should I get frustrated with a game when often my everyday life is filled with already with frustration?

Exactly right warheart!

It's not the players responsibility to spend their own time not having fun so WG can fix something that they are responsible for breaking.  People play for enjoyment, not data gathering.  People will try and salvage their enjoyment - either by playing what they determine to be strong ships or by voting with their silence and choosing to seek enjoyment elsewhere.

This is honestly one of the dumbest topics I've ever seen to say that we are somehow obligated to build WGs datasets

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6 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

I play games to have fun and get a bit away from everyday life, WoWs included. At the moment, and this is my subjective opinion, I don't have fun in Random Battles. Why should I get frustrated with a game when often my everyday life is filled already with frustration?

Well said

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Well said OP, completely agree!

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3 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

If people only play the ships with the best AA, WG is going to get the wrong idea about what's going on with aircraft vs AA. 

Maybe WG should set up some reward missions to entice players to play some ships from the list of those that had their AA gutted by the new mechanics. 

I dunno, I'm still playing DDs. I see what you mean though, Akatsuki definitely got better AA IMO.

Once I play a few more DD games, and unlock my Kagero and Z-23, I plan to play CVs and a good mix of ships with different AA capability.

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20 minutes ago, KaptainKaybe said:

As above.

Yes, I know it sucks to be a DD right now. I feel you. I'm very much pro-rework and even I have zero urge to play a DD at the moment. But I also know we HAVE to play DDs right now. *Especially* right now. We need to make sure that there are two or three DDs per match instead of just one due to single squad vs multiple squad spotting changes.

We also NEED every other ship type played with a variety of builds, even if some ships seem weaker or stronger on AA than before.

Wargaming needs data, guys. That's how they balance stuff out. Player feedback only goes so far if it's not backup by cold hard numbers. And if Wargaming sees many thousands of DD games where their average survivability has piummeted significantly, then they'll either buff DDs, or change CV mechanics so that spotting is not as much of a concern.

Now is not the time to quit. Not unless you want things to stay as they are. I don't mean to sound preachy, but it's true.

So tough it out and let Wargaming try and fix it. Or, you know, just quit to find other games because you refuse to deal with or assist with changes. Your call. What's more important to you ... your stats or the overall health of the game?

I would think that if many didn't play a particular ship type, that would also give WG a stat to consider?

And their (the players) decision wouldn't necessarily come down to their stats (some don't care); what many care about is their enjoyment. So if they aren't enjoying, why play the thing they don't enjoy?

And honestly, the DD has been the lowest surviving ship type on average on all 3 servers over several years - if WG haven't worked that out yet when will they?

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8 minutes ago, KnyxUDL said:

1.) "underperforming compared to their peers" - I did not realize that the game required you to ONLY fight and interact with your peers. Reiterating something akin to "The world is flat" just because WG states it, isn't going to somehow make it correct.

2.) The performance data had nothing to do with radar changes, and they still failed in said change.

3.) "Any number...."   and yet almost every patch with nerfs and buffs are contradictory to said data.

I don't think you understand how game development works ... or at least that's the assumption based on the comments above.

12 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

I play games to have fun and get a bit away from everyday life, WoWs included. At the moment, and this is my subjective opinion, I don't have fun in Random Battles. Why should I get frustrated with a game when often my everyday life is filled already with frustration?

It really comes down to what's more important to you: your immediate gratification or your desire to move this game forward on the long term. No one is saying you're not right to be upset. Even I agree with you. But if everyone stops playing DDs aside from a few heavy AA specced beasts like Grozovoi, nothing will change and you will remain miserable forever. That doesn't sound like fun to me, personally. But to each their own.

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23 minutes ago, KaptainKaybe said:

As above.

Yes, I know it sucks to be a DD right now. I feel you. I'm very much pro-rework and even I have zero urge to play a DD at the moment. But I also know we HAVE to play DDs right now. *Especially* right now. We need to make sure that there are two or three DDs per match instead of just one due to single squad vs multiple squad spotting changes.

I don't think that the sky is falling, i actually think the patch has many things done right, but as someone who saw these AA problems coming 100 miles away, I'm not inclined to offer up my time playing something less than enjoyable just for wargaming's sake. You could also argue that if certain ships see a marked decline in games played that is a statistic in and of itself.

TL:DR Play something you enjoy and let the chips fall where they will.

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11 minutes ago, xalmgrey said:

Bottom line is WG made this bed and now they must lay in it.

I may not feel like spooning with WG right now, but I'm not going to go sleep on the couch either.....

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1 minute ago, _WaveRider_ said:

And honestly, the DD has been the lowest surviving ship type on average on all 3 servers over several years - if WG haven't worked that out yet when will they?

Careful, there. Many DDs die early ... but those that don't tend to have the greatest carry potential, especially in Domination matches. There's a reason why *everyone* always targets DDs when they are spotted. Not doing so loses games. Playing DDs has always been a question of extremes. It's why I love it so much. But if WG sees that said extremes are leaning too far into the early death end of the spectrum, they'll end up balancing it and buffing DDs.

Now whether or not players want to help them with that is up to the players. But the more DDs (and other surface ships) play, the more data they receive and the faster they balance it. This could all get patched up in 0.8.1. Or they could have so little data that it'll get patched up in 0.8.2 or 0.8.3 instead. It's up to the players to decide which option is more favorable to them and their long term enjoyment of the game.

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4 minutes ago, _WaveRider_ said:

I would think that if many didn't play a particular ship type, that would also give WG a stat to consider?

It would, but it's not as specific as it could be, and runs the risk of making changes that could result in DDs being OP when the numbers come back up.

4 minutes ago, _WaveRider_ said:

And their (the players) decision wouldn't necessarily come down to their stats (some don't care); what many care about is their enjoyment. So if they aren't enjoying, why play the thing they don't enjoy?

That's fair enough. It's the same reason lots of people don't do public testing. Heck, same reason lots of people don't bother to vote. Nobody wants to waste their leisure time.

However, just like voting, if you don't participate, you give up your say.

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28 minutes ago, KaptainKaybe said:

As above.

Yes, I know it sucks to be a DD right now. I feel you. I'm very much pro-rework and even I have zero urge to play a DD at the moment. But I also know we HAVE to play DDs right now. *Especially* right now. We need to make sure that there are two or three DDs per match instead of just one due to single squad vs multiple squad spotting changes.

We also NEED every other ship type played with a variety of builds, even if some ships seem weaker or stronger on AA than before.

Wargaming needs data, guys. That's how they balance stuff out. Player feedback only goes so far if it's not backup by cold hard numbers. And if Wargaming sees many thousands of DD games where their average survivability has piummeted significantly, then they'll either buff DDs, or change CV mechanics so that spotting is not as much of a concern.

Now is not the time to quit. Not unless you want things to stay as they are. I don't mean to sound preachy, but it's true.

So tough it out and let Wargaming try and fix it. Or, you know, just quit to find other games because you refuse to deal with or assist with changes. Your call. What's more important to you ... your stats or the overall health of the game?

When I sign up as a beta tester, i agree to test out game mechanics and content regardless of the state they're in.

This isn't beta test. I'm a paid subscriber and how I use my premium time is up to me, there is no onus on me to play DDs. It's entirely my choice

At the moment my DDs are port queens, because I don't know what the role is in the game anymore. They contest caps, provide spotting, and hunt  other DDs.

Well contesting caps is highly risky, the other two are better handled by CVs.

If you have a role I can achieve that isn't better achieved by another ships class I would love to hear it.

Right now DDs aren't the best tool for the job. Mine are parked until I have an idea for a useful strategy

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13 minutes ago, KaptainKaybe said:

It really comes down to what's more important to you: your immediate gratification or your desire to move this game forward on the long term. No one is saying you're not right to be upset. Even I agree with you. But if everyone stops playing DDs aside from a few heavy AA specced beasts like Grozovoi, nothing will change and you will remain miserable forever. That doesn't sound like fun to me, personally. But to each their own.

That's a fair point, yet my free time is limited during this period. In the meantime there is content that I would like to devote some time to (Ranked). 

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Just now, Wombatmetal said:

Right now DDs aren't the best tool for the job. Mine are parked until I have an idea for a useful strategy

Unfortunately, I see many many 'I quit!' posts and few if any threads about how to play in the new meta. I worry that DD players are simply considering this a forever lost cause and refusing to engage at all, know what I mean?

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