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Lady_Athena

My take on the CV's.. The game is finally getting balanced.

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Quite honestly, all the flaming of "ermergerd you changed the game RAGE!!!" its quite good, for the gameplay as a whole, and CV's in general.

Yes the original is changed, yes its not RTS anymore, no you can't blanket the entire map with planes and be god mode, No you can't stack 4 torpedo squadrons ontop of each other and 1 shot any ship, or cross drop.. but this does NOT mean the new carrier rework is bad, or lack luster, or weaker, or "dumbed down". I'd argue its actually more difficult than the previous version, but with less micro management. (yes I understand micro management is a form of difficulty and skill, but lets not pretend its the ONLY form of difficulty or skill). 

I was originally going to write a rage thread of my own, excpet in the form of "why are people at tier 8+ soo baaaaaad"... With a very large portion of my CV games since yesterday being 70-120k in damage or higher and nearly all losses being top on the team myself, (even having to cap some games... as a CV!) just to scratch out wins.. needless to say my blood is rather boiling.. but then i decided you know.. I'm going to write something a little more useful..

Right now there's alot of controversy about the CV rework, and there's alot of extreme back and forth going on. I want to make points that I don't really see anyone making...

Anti Air and infinite planes:

The Anti Air right now is rather OP.. As it should. This is a good counter to the infinite planes. If planes were not infinite, then the balance of AA would be drastically harder.. As it was before, but since they are infinite though gated through a recharge timer, AA CAN be more OP and highly effective. (The AA was not well balanced at all previously, we just got used too it.) Now however, it can be OP, and effective. The AA's effectiveness becomes nearly imprenetrable when even just 2 ships stay near each other (as it should be). Already in every game I have to steer clear of ships covering each other with AA, as I'll get maybe 1 drop if even that before all my planes get wiped.

This is a benefit to ships with the change. Effective AA that becomes like an iron curtain when with teammates. It forces the CV player to think about their attacks and which planes to use as the squadrons recharge is not as good as one might think. Several games being careless I have been down to just half squadrons at best. (especially in games where I was 2 tiers under).

Can't cover or spot anymore:

Completely false. I've heard this argument by X CV players, most of them are the ones raging right now, most of them just don't get the new rework.

You can still spot. I do. My first initial planes I send out are essentially "Scouts". Keeping tabs on DD's, and where the enemy is going. Still highly effective. Even after a few attacks, holding onto your last few planes to continue scouting can be a huge boon to your team. (While doing this I still get 100k damage games).

While this is limited and not infinite like before, and the fighter aircraft are again limited and timed, this is in its own right, a form of difficulty and skill, when and when not to use it. WHen to hold onto it, and when to use it to its full effectiveness.. I've seen most CV players so far blow these things at the first sign of an enemy aircraft. Using them to set up no fly zones for battleships on your team is just as important and effective, better to stop the enemy from being able to drop at all, than waiting for them to get strikes in and then shooting them down. This gives your allies time to respond to the incoming aircraft as well and gives their AA time to spool up as they switch their AA focus.

DD's are useless now:

Again, completely and utterly false. Yes its more difficult now, yes DD's require a bit of skill now, yes how you play them has changed, but they are by no means "useless". Every game every DD I focus, all but 2 out of every game for the last 2 days has actually tried to avoid my planes. DD players are so used to being immune, and not targeted by planes that now that they need to pay attention, they fail miserably.. I've torped 8 DD's with the new CV rework, not because I'm amazing, but because the DD's literally ignored my planes and continued driving straight.. or just sitting in their smoke screen stationary...

With the new change, FYI DD players.. its easier or at least, more apparent to CV players that you can drop torps from farther away effectively.. seeing a smoke screen and dropping my torps from max range got 6 out of the 8 of those DD's sitting in smoke.. they see my planes turn away a good distance away and dont even realize their are torps incoming until its much too late..

This goes for rockets as well. Simply swerve... you have teh fastest turning rudder in the game, and the fastest ship.. turn into rocket planes at an angle, and keep swerving randomly and you'll see a vast majority of the damage poof into non existence.. Stop driving straight and you wont have to go onto the forums and rage... Rocket attacks are actually extremely accurate.. This makes them miss ALOT on a swerving target since usually the rockets cluster in 1 spot, and its rarely the middle of the reticule.

 

Edit: I also forgot to make a point, that for several years now really, DD's have been in a power surge point.

What I see happening and I believe this is a good thing, is the gameplay is starting to turn back to how it was in Alpha/Beta, and early live server states, where DD's worked with the team, they relied on the team as much as the team relied on them. DD's have become very overloaded as a whole over the years, kind of being able to do nearly everything, and with soem captain skills all DD's can do everything. (Well not all but a majority.)

With the CV re work DD's now again, have to rely on AA cruisers for cover, and other teammates for cover while they spot, yes they aren't 9 miles ahead of the team anymore doing their own thing. The teamwork aspect actually has pushed the DD's back to where they should of been for years, and where they were in Alpha/Beta stages instead of being the lone wolf stealth sniping ships as they please, and perma spotting enemy teams with near immunity. 

Edit2:

I feel as though many people, especially DD mains again, will feel the same way as this person, so I wanted to put it in the OP here to explain my view on it.

 

On 1/31/2019 at 3:49 PM, tainteddoughnut said:

Your assessment of DD's is completely off and frankly short sighted with carrier colored glasses on. The spotting from early CV strikes and the almost complete module stripping of  a rocket strike is way OP at this point everything a DD does a CV does better with 0 threat to the ship. Being so close in that your using Crusier AA leaves most DD's out of effective weapons range. So at that point your asking the DD to sit by idle and twidle thumbs until the rest of the team decides to push into 10ish KM range...thats a tall order. A ship should not be forced to idle for the majority of a match. DDs use to be out wide or ahead to spot getting valuable intel for the team. This is no longer needed and in fact just makes you a big liability. The game play for DD's is more or less at an end unless your a lucky RU bias bote with heal and Def AA.

Except this is flat out wrong. You can spot and do stuff in the DD. There are only 2 squadrons max in the air, avoid them. You can still go wide and spot if need be though you will be at risk. These are risk choices every other ship has to face, except destroyers, until now.

In Alpha/Beta this is how it was, and it worked just fine. for the first year of live servers this is how it was, and it worked fine.

Every ship except DD's until now had to change tactics depending on the state of the game. BB's can't push forward, and your ability to do any real damage is less early game, especially ones with bad accuracy.. Cruisers same thing. Every ship type except for DD's, again until now, had to use cover, terrain to their advantage in a real way and use different tactics and strategies depending on how early in the game it is. DD's still get smoke to hide in, more than enough to get them out of dodge if they aren't over extending.


DD's still have 1 shot capable torpedoes, protect your teammates maybe? So what if you're having to lob shells over an island for a bit, DD guns can actually lay down quite alot of damage if you actually use them, and can set pretty consistent fires with how accurate the guns are. DD's were originally a support ship, as they should be. Not lone wolf assassins...

yes not being able to be immune to everything now, and staying virtually unspotted the entire game is a huge change, but that doesn't make you worthless, just means DD's require a bit more thinking than they used too, and a little more skill than they used too.

And Finally.... CV's are useless now:

Again, utterly false..

20190131135859_1.thumb.jpg.d9b37ee752ed1b9b5ddf318054cde5ce.jpg20190131142351_1.thumb.jpg.fcde65fccfcbff29a4e64aa02dba5acc.jpg

 

Both of these games were losses mind you, as most of my CV games are, but I normally get top 3, usually first on score. Carriers that are 2 tiers down, can barely get off 1 volley before all their planes are destroyed, yet with a little brain power, and critical thinking, I was able to still do 100k damage and do 2x more damage than the midway, who was complaining all game he couldn't even get 1 volley off (the enemy was bunching rather well tbh, kudo's to them, was impossible to get any air attacks in at first, until mid game when their AA got destroyed enough).

However this kind of proves my point, that Carriers are neither "useless" nor "dumbed down" from the previous iteration. THey require skill and tactics still, but in a different way. If they were brain dead simple like many argue then that midway should of absolutely destroyed them and done far better than me for sure, if they were "useless" as others argue then there's no way I could of done the damage I did being 2 tiers under..

Which planes to bring out when against which ships you plan to attack, where you attack, when you attack, when you spot, when you fly cap, when you use your fighters, and even where you position is even more critically important than before because you only get 1 squadron out at a time. You can't divert half your flight to engage an enemy squadron anymore, and continue your attack on another ship on the other side of the map. It's a critical choice. Assist the friendly ships with fighters, and attack the ships there, or continue on my planned course.
-------------------------

I really see a whole lot of over reactions, and knee jerk reactions to the carrier rework. A lot of mob mentality as well.. Which is unfortunate, because the CV rework is not nearly as bad or game changing as people paint it out to be. The core has been changed yes, but it still does everything its always intended to do, how you do it is different, but still just as effective and important as before.

Additional Notes:

 

There was a very really envisioned reason for CV's in Warships. And no it isn't as clean cut as rock paper scissors that DD mains love to argue with. (While they completely ignore CV's in that equation). Every class had essentially 2-3 roles.

Cruisers= Saturating BB's AA's, etc. while helping to assist other BB's in taking them out with fire, while being direct counters to CV's with the highest AA threat in the game. They were also defenders of BB's against DD's.

Battleships = Anti Cruisers/Anti CV's. With their long range, able to strike spotted CV's from even half the map away in many situations, and being able to damn near 1 shot cruisers if not outright 1 shot, while brawling each other.

Destroyers = Support of Cruisers/Battleships with smoke while generating a natural area of denial with their potent and powerful torpedoes. Capping relatively safely with proper support from cruisers/battleships, and able too in mid/late game seek out Carriers and stranded enemy ships.

Carriers = Spotters, supports as well. While they can technically strike any ship their real role was to run spots for enemy DD"s trying to sneak around the sides, while helping to focus or even route out enemy ships in strong positions.

 

(Granted how good any specific nation was in their role differed, and each nation was different in the strengths they brought to their intended roles. Examples: USN before Germans were the brawlers, very good medium range guns, and very decent AA for the focus they'd get from CVs and other ships, meanwhile IJN Battleships were actuallyt he more "anti CV" ships, as their extremely long range potential was better for striking spotted CV's from half the map away well out of any other battleship at the time. THeir extreme dispersion didn't matter at that range either since Carriers have such a massive flat deck you were going to hit something.)
---------------

Because carriers were never living up to their intended roles and their numbers were so lack luster many bad things happend over the course of 4 years which forced changes to the game that were unhealthy.

Destroyers with their only real nemesis at the time, carriers, being non existant in most games, were able to go lone wolf, striking enemy ships form virtually any position or angle, with very little counter play to them. This then forced them to push cruisers into the Anti DD role specifically giving them radar to combat them, and even increasing their ROF and accuracy. This then became too much, and so they removed the citadel from DD's.. Top tier gameplay was still nothing but 5 DD's per team torp spamming everything, so they introduced yet more radar, including radar on DD's to help combat the extreme power spike DD's got with the exclusion of CV's, and how badly smoke was being utterly abused by not just them, but other ships.

Even games with CV's, CV's were not playing their intended role. Due to the huge power output CV's had, they were not willing to sit and spot DD's, and support. Instead they found that stacking all their squadrons up on a single target and ultimately nuking every target 1 by 1 with impunity was the best route.

The entire balance of World of Warships has been off since release. Whether DD players like it or not, your ship was never intended to be a power house stealth assassin, or cap pusher with virtually no real counter.. Hence why Radar was even introduced to begin with, or why you guys saw non stop DD nerfs for years.

Now if the CV change proves well taken and players begin to play CV's more, you'll see much of your ability given back. No you wont get to be the unstoppable power force in the game as you have had for years, and you will have to start playing differently and different stages of the battle like any other ship, but you'll see them start tweaking radar or even changing it, RPF may also see a change to it.

For battleships, they may even see a change in HE damage output by Cruisers if Destroyers start manning up and supporting the team and using their guns rather than just relying on torp stealth spams and playing for themselves.

 

As for destroyers crying about not being able to cap anymore.. ridiculous.. You still have a very real and very potent position on the team. No you most likely wont be capping in the first 2 minutes of the game like before. Caps were something you were supposed to FIGHT over.. not stealth ninja in smoke in the first 2 minutes THEN fight over it...

So what are DD's supposed to do now, to not only live, but excel, and prosper?

 

1) stay ahead of the cruisers, (no this doesn't mean over extend liek you've been doing for 3 years).

2) be situationaly aware of the situation. Wait to see where both CV squadrons are, then go the opposite way, and surprise them. (trust me it works). Funnily enough this is the same tactic any ship needs to do in reverse. Nobody can yolo in without first taking note of where the DD's are. So why everyone thinks its ok for the DD to not have to require any thinking besides tier X is beyond me when it comes to making sure its safe.. and no the last 3 years of "popped smoke and got away" doesn't count. I mean actual punishment by losing your ship 9-10 times, or damn near close like any other ship class.

3) Support the Cruisers/Battleships with smoke

4) wait for an opening and abuse it.

5) help reset fires on enemy ships by focusing whatever the battleship or cruiser is focusing.

 

This is stuff ANY destroyer can do, but lets focus at the more special ones..

 

IJN ships can still do an area of denial with their torps, and due to their long range torps shouldn't be 10km up front anyway. They can easily deny and punish enemy ships getting close by sailing just a few km in front of any allied ship..

USN can still abuse their high arc and ROF by help punishing ships that get close, or even AA cover themselves.

RU, same thing as above

Only ones I'm not sure of are German and British Destroyers. Not played them enough.

 

The meta changed, but its definetly for the best, and in no way are DD's useless, or sub par.

 

 

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Thanks for your feedback on this and we appreciate your flexibility in trying out the new system.  Please do let us know how things continue for you!

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I've only played a few T4 CV games thus far, and I know that it's going to take some learning to get decent.

But the new CVs are actually fun enough that, unlike the old CVs, I'm interested in doing said learning.

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5 minutes ago, Lady_Athena said:

Can't cover or spot anymore

only true in the way that you cant cover and spot like you could when you had multiple squads that could cover the whole map, other than that, just like you said, you can still spot and cover

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3 minutes ago, tcbaker777 said:

only true in the way that you cant cover and spot like you could when you had multiple squads that could cover the whole map, other than that, just like you said, you can still spot and cover

Correct. I tried my best to keep pointing out that while how you do it is different, it is still there, and just as important as before.

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I for one cannot play the new CV system. Not because it is too hard or too frustrating, but because of the graphics. The disorientation I experience trying to maneuver is so bad that after 2 sessions in the training room I was on the verge of barfing all over my keyboard. Several members of my clan reported the same issue. Add to the huge balance changes that we have seen over the last 2 days and this is a real mess.

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6 minutes ago, mushmouthmorton said:

I for one cannot play the new CV system. Not because it is too hard or too frustrating, but because of the graphics. The disorientation I experience trying to maneuver is so bad that after 2 sessions in the training room I was on the verge of barfing all over my keyboard. Several members of my clan reported the same issue. Add to the huge balance changes that we have seen over the last 2 days and this is a real mess.


Sounds like you simply have an acute motion sickness problem, that's not the games fault.

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Your assessment of DD's is completely off and frankly short sighted with carrier colored glasses on. The spotting from early CV strikes and the almost complete module stripping of  a rocket strike is way OP at this point everything a DD does a CV does better with 0 threat to the ship. Being so close in that your using Crusier AA leaves most DD's out of effective weapons range. So at that point your asking the DD to sit by idle and twidle thumbs until the rest of the team decides to push into 10ish KM range...thats a tall order. A ship should not be forced to idle for the majority of a match. DDs use to be out wide or ahead to spot getting valuable intel for the team. This is no longer needed and in fact just makes you a big liability. The game play for DD's is more or less at an end unless your a lucky RU bias bote with heal and Def AA.

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14 minutes ago, tainteddoughnut said:

Your assessment of DD's is completely off and frankly short sighted with carrier colored glasses on. The spotting from early CV strikes and the almost complete module stripping of  a rocket strike is way OP at this point everything a DD does a CV does better with 0 threat to the ship. Being so close in that your using Crusier AA leaves most DD's out of effective weapons range. So at that point your asking the DD to sit by idle and twidle thumbs until the rest of the team decides to push into 10ish KM range...thats a tall order. A ship should not be forced to idle for the majority of a match. DDs use to be out wide or ahead to spot getting valuable intel for the team. This is no longer needed and in fact just makes you a big liability. The game play for DD's is more or less at an end unless your a lucky RU bias bote with heal and Def AA.

Except this is flat out wrong. You can spot and do stuff in the DD. There are only 2 squadrons max in the air, avoid them. You can still go wide and spot if need be though you will be at risk. These are risk choices every other ship has to face, except destroyers, until now.

In Alpha/Beta this is how it was, and it worked just fine. for the first year of live servers this is how it was, and it worked fine.

 

Every ship except DD's until now had to change tactics depending on the state of the game. BB's can't push forward, and your ability to do any real damage is less early game, especially ones with bad accuracy.. Cruiesers same thing. Every ship type except for DD's, again until now, had to use cover, terrain to their advantage in a real way and use different tactics and strategies depending on how early in the game it is. DD's still get smoke to hide in, more than enough to get them out of dodge if they aren't over extending.

DD's still have 1 shot capable torpedoes, protect your teammates maybe? So what if you're having to lob shells over an island for a bit, DD guns can actually lay down quite alot of damage if you actually use them, and can set pretty consistent fires with how accurate the guns are. DD's were originally a support ship, as they should be. Not lone wolf assassins...

yes not being able to be immune to everything now, and staying virtually unspotted the entire game is a huge change, but that doesn't make you worthless, just means DD's require a bit more thinking than they used too, and a little more skill than they used too. 

Again as I mentioned in the OP, rose tinted glasses for the days when DD's were virtually immune lone wolfs. It's been going on for so long you can't even fathom anything else.

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42 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

I've only played a few T4 CV games thus far, and I know that it's going to take some learning to get decent.

But the new CVs are actually fun enough that, unlike the old CVs, I'm interested in doing said learning.

At this point, I agree with that.  It's interesting enough to continue on.  

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1 hour ago, Lady_Athena said:

...

I quite honestly think some of you CVs get lucky. Or something. I'm not sure what's going on but do you know how odd it is to have a CV charge my broadside, and right when he hits my AA bubble, the first poof kills 5 planes?

I've seen a few CVs hit top 3 but honestly, on average? they're so ineffective that I can be isolated alone on a Monarch and not die to 2 CVs constantly attacking me. If you're able to inconstantly get more than 40k damage, could you reply to me with some pointers? While I'm not interested in playing CVs as I found the game play itself to be very boring and terrible to play; I am curious as to how people are achieving consistent damage numbers as right now, as a BB main? I feel CVs are nothing more than graphical enhancements for the game and are generally useless accept as spotters and DD hunters. I ignore the CVs nearly all match. What do you do to get your damage so high? Why should I fear you over all the other CVs?

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43 minutes ago, Lady_Athena said:

Except this is flat out wrong. You can spot and do stuff in the DD. There are only 2 squadrons max in the air, avoid them. You can still go wide and spot if need be though you will be at risk. These are risk choices every other ship has to face, except destroyers, until now.

In Alpha/Beta this is how it was, and it worked just fine. for the first year of live servers this is how it was, and it worked fine.

 

Every ship except DD's until now had to change tactics depending on the state of the game. BB's can't push forward, and your ability to do any real damage is less early game, especially ones with bad accuracy.. Cruiesers same thing. Every ship type except for DD's, again until now, had to use cover, terrain to their advantage in a real way and use different tactics and strategies depending on how early in the game it is. DD's still get smoke to hide in, more than enough to get them out of dodge if they aren't over extending.

DD's still have 1 shot capable torpedoes, protect your teammates maybe? So what if you're having to lob shells over an island for a bit, DD guns can actually lay down quite alot of damage if you actually use them, and can set pretty consistent fires with how accurate the guns are. DD's were originally a support ship, as they should be. Not lone wolf assassins...

yes not being able to be immune to everything now, and staying virtually unspotted the entire game is a huge change, but that doesn't make you worthless, just means DD's require a bit more thinking than they used too, and a little more skill than they used too. 

Again as I mentioned in the OP, rose tinted glasses for the days when DD's were virtually immune lone wolfs. It's been going on for so long you can't even fathom anything else.

Spoken like someone who has never played a DD above tier 6.

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45 minutes ago, Lady_Athena said:

Except this is flat out wrong. You can spot and do stuff in the DD. There are only 2 squadrons max in the air, avoid them. You can still go wide and spot if need be though you will be at risk. These are risk choices every other ship has to face, except destroyers, until now.

In Alpha/Beta this is how it was, and it worked just fine. for the first year of live servers this is how it was, and it worked fine.

 

Every ship except DD's until now had to change tactics depending on the state of the game. BB's can't push forward, and your ability to do any real damage is less early game, especially ones with bad accuracy.. Cruiesers same thing. Every ship type except for DD's, again until now, had to use cover, terrain to their advantage in a real way and use different tactics and strategies depending on how early in the game it is. DD's still get smoke to hide in, more than enough to get them out of dodge if they aren't over extending.

DD's still have 1 shot capable torpedoes, protect your teammates maybe? So what if you're having to lob shells over an island for a bit, DD guns can actually lay down quite alot of damage if you actually use them, and can set pretty consistent fires with how accurate the guns are. DD's were originally a support ship, as they should be. Not lone wolf assassins...

yes not being able to be immune to everything now, and staying virtually unspotted the entire game is a huge change, but that doesn't make you worthless, just means DD's require a bit more thinking than they used too, and a little more skill than they used too. 

Again as I mentioned in the OP, rose tinted glasses for the days when DD's were virtually immune lone wolfs. It's been going on for so long you can't even fathom anything else.

The fact that you think DD's never had to use cover or Terrain shows just how wrong you are about this assessment a good DD exploited Terrain to it's fullest. So Again you are clearly out of touch.

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48 minutes ago, Lady_Athena said:

Except this is flat out wrong. You can spot and do stuff in the DD. There are only 2 squadrons max in the air, avoid them. You can still go wide and spot if need be though you will be at risk. These are risk choices every other ship has to face, except destroyers, until now.

In Alpha/Beta this is how it was, and it worked just fine. for the first year of live servers this is how it was, and it worked fine.

 

Every ship except DD's until now had to change tactics depending on the state of the game. BB's can't push forward, and your ability to do any real damage is less early game, especially ones with bad accuracy.. Cruiesers same thing. Every ship type except for DD's, again until now, had to use cover, terrain to their advantage in a real way and use different tactics and strategies depending on how early in the game it is. DD's still get smoke to hide in, more than enough to get them out of dodge if they aren't over extending.

DD's still have 1 shot capable torpedoes, protect your teammates maybe? So what if you're having to lob shells over an island for a bit, DD guns can actually lay down quite alot of damage if you actually use them, and can set pretty consistent fires with how accurate the guns are. DD's were originally a support ship, as they should be. Not lone wolf assassins...

yes not being able to be immune to everything now, and staying virtually unspotted the entire game is a huge change, but that doesn't make you worthless, just means DD's require a bit more thinking than they used too, and a little more skill than they used too. 

Again as I mentioned in the OP, rose tinted glasses for the days when DD's were virtually immune lone wolfs. It's been going on for so long you can't even fathom anything else.

"Every ship except DD's until now had to change tactics depending on the state of the game."

Have you not been playing for 18 months?  Is this your first time back, and you think that along with the CV rework, radar was also introduced?

EDIT:  Ahh.  You are a CV player, pretending to know anything else about anything, and coming from a made up mentally fabricated perspective.  

Edited by turdjelly

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So good. Thank you for sharing this post.

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30 minutes ago, turdjelly said:

EDIT:  Ahh.  You are a CV player, pretending to know anything else about anything, and coming from a made up mentally fabricated perspective.  

Seeing as how its my least played ship, i doubt it.

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33 minutes ago, tainteddoughnut said:

The fact that you think DD's never had to use cover or Terrain shows just how wrong you are about this assessment a good DD exploited Terrain to it's fullest. So Again you are clearly out of touch.

 

Oh they do at tier 8+  but so do every other ship. Though if that's the best counter to my points you have, well.. that says alot about how weak your argument was.

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7 minutes ago, Lady_Athena said:

 

Oh they do at tier 8+  but so do every other ship. Though if that's the best counter to my points you have, well.. that says alot about how weak your argument was.

Again the fact that you think terrain is only important for high tier DD's shows you are very out of touch. It is even more vital at some of the middle and lower tiers for ambushing and breaking LOS once in engaged. So no my argument remains pretty solid that you don't know your head from a torp tube in regards to DD play.

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For the first time since starting to play this game I have decided to start up the IJN CV line.  I always avoided it as it was too difficult keeping track of the USN plane groups.  I figured the IJN plane groups would just be worse since there were more of them.  I am not good with those frantic RTS games, where you have to constantly jump back and forth between units.

Granted, I've only played 2 T6 co-op games in the Ranger so far, but I am liking the changes.  At some point I should feel confident enough to try them out in random.

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1 hour ago, Nurhaal said:

I quite honestly think some of you CVs get lucky. Or something. I'm not sure what's going on but do you know how odd it is to have a CV charge my broadside, and right when he hits my AA bubble, the first poof kills 5 planes?

I've seen a few CVs hit top 3 but honestly, on average? they're so ineffective that I can be isolated alone on a Monarch and not die to 2 CVs constantly attacking me. If you're able to inconstantly get more than 40k damage, could you reply to me with some pointers? While I'm not interested in playing CVs as I found the game play itself to be very boring and terrible to play; I am curious as to how people are achieving consistent damage numbers as right now, as a BB main? I feel CVs are nothing more than graphical enhancements for the game and are generally useless accept as spotters and DD hunters. I ignore the CVs nearly all match. What do you do to get your damage so high? Why should I fear you over all the other CVs?

I am having the same issues. I really want to know how people are even getting close to enemy ships. Every time that i approach and dodge flak as best as I can and always get hit by 1 flak, losing some hp or even 1-3 planes. After striking and missing, I lose the rest of the squad. I know my aim can be improved but it is difficult if I can't get anywhere near enemy ships. 

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2 hours ago, Lady_Athena said:

Quite honestly, all the flaming of "ermergerd you changed the game RAGE!!!" its quite good, for the gameplay as a whole, and CV's in general.

Yes the original is changed, yes its not RTS anymore, no you can't blanket the entire map with planes and be god mode, No you can't stack 4 torpedo squadrons ontop of each other and 1 shot any ship, or cross drop.. but this does NOT mean the new carrier rework is bad, or lack luster, or weaker, or "dumbed down". I'd argue its actually more difficult than the previous version, but with less micro management. (yes I understand micro management is a form of difficulty and skill, but lets not pretend its the ONLY form of difficulty or skill). 

I was originally going to write a rage thread of my own, excpet in the form of "why are people at tier 8+ soo baaaaaad"... With a very large portion of my CV games since yesterday being 70-120k in damage or higher and nearly all losses being top on the team myself, (even having to cap some games... as a CV!) just to scratch out wins.. needless to say my blood is rather boiling.. but then i decided you know.. I'm going to write something a little more useful..

Right now there's alot of controversy about the CV rework, and there's alot of extreme back and forth going on. I want to make points that I don't really see anyone making...

Anti Air and infinite planes:

The Anti Air right now is rather OP.. As it should. This is a good counter to the infinite planes. If planes were not infinite, then the balance of AA would be drastically harder.. As it was before, but since they are infinite though gated through a recharge timer, AA CAN be more OP and highly effective. (The AA was not well balanced at all previously, we just got used too it.) Now however, it can be OP, and effective. The AA's effectiveness becomes nearly imprenetrable when even just 2 ships stay near each other (as it should be). Already in every game I have to steer clear of ships covering each other with AA, as I'll get maybe 1 drop if even that before all my planes get wiped.

This is a benefit to ships with the change. Effective AA that becomes like an iron curtain when with teammates. It forces the CV player to think about their attacks and which planes to use as the squadrons recharge is not as good as one might think. Several games being careless I have been down to just half squadrons at best. (especially in games where I was 2 tiers under).

Can't cover or spot anymore:

Completely false. I've heard this argument by X CV players, most of them are the ones raging right now, most of them just don't get the new rework.

You can still spot. I do. My first initial planes I send out are essentially "Scouts". Keeping tabs on DD's, and where the enemy is going. Still highly effective. Even after a few attacks, holding onto your last few planes to continue scouting can be a huge boon to your team. (While doing this I still get 100k damage games).

While this is limited and not infinite like before, and the fighter aircraft are again limited and timed, this is in its own right, a form of difficulty and skill, when and when not to use it. WHen to hold onto it, and when to use it to its full effectiveness.. I've seen most CV players so far blow these things at the first sign of an enemy aircraft. Using them to set up no fly zones for battleships on your team is just as important and effective, better to stop the enemy from being able to drop at all, than waiting for them to get strikes in and then shooting them down. This gives your allies time to respond to the incoming aircraft as well and gives their AA time to spool up as they switch their AA focus.

DD's are useless now:

Again, completely and utterly false. Yes its more difficult now, yes DD's require a bit of skill now, yes how you play them has changed, but they are by no means "useless". Every game every DD I focus, all but 2 out of every game for the last 2 days has actually tried to avoid my planes. DD players are so used to being immune, and not targeted by planes that now that they need to pay attention, they fail miserably.. I've torped 8 DD's with the new CV rework, not because I'm amazing, but because the DD's literally ignored my planes and continued driving straight.. or just sitting in their smoke screen stationary...

With the new change, FYI DD players.. its easier or at least, more apparent to CV players that you can drop torps from farther away effectively.. seeing a smoke screen and dropping my torps from max range got 6 out of the 8 of those DD's sitting in smoke.. they see my planes turn away a good distance away and dont even realize their are torps incoming until its much too late..

This goes for rockets as well. Simply swerve... you have teh fastest turning rudder in the game, and the fastest ship.. turn into rocket planes at an angle, and keep swerving randomly and you'll see a vast majority of the damage poof into non existence.. Stop driving straight and you wont have to go onto the forums and rage... Rocket attacks are actually extremely accurate.. This makes them miss ALOT on a swerving target since usually the rockets cluster in 1 spot, and its rarely the middle of the reticule.

 

Edit: I also forgot to make a point, that for several years now really, DD's have been in a power surge point.

What I see happening and I believe this is a good thing, is the gameplay is starting to turn back to how it was in Alpha/Beta, and early live server states, where DD's worked with the team, they relied on the team as much as the team relied on them. DD's have become very overloaded as a whole over the years, kind of being able to do nearly everything, and with soem captain skills all DD's can do everything. (Well not all but a majority.)

With the CV re work DD's now again, have to rely on AA cruisers for cover, and other teammates for cover while they spot, yes they aren't 9 miles ahead of the team anymore doing their own thing. The teamwork aspect actually has pushed the DD's back to where they should of been for years, and where they were in Alpha/Beta stages instead of being the lone wolf stealth sniping ships as they please, and perma spotting enemy teams with near immunity. 

Edit2:

I feel as though many people, especially DD mains again, will feel the same way as this person, so I wanted to put it in the OP here to explain my view on it.

 

Except this is flat out wrong. You can spot and do stuff in the DD. There are only 2 squadrons max in the air, avoid them. You can still go wide and spot if need be though you will be at risk. These are risk choices every other ship has to face, except destroyers, until now.

In Alpha/Beta this is how it was, and it worked just fine. for the first year of live servers this is how it was, and it worked fine.

Every ship except DD's until now had to change tactics depending on the state of the game. BB's can't push forward, and your ability to do any real damage is less early game, especially ones with bad accuracy.. Cruisers same thing. Every ship type except for DD's, again until now, had to use cover, terrain to their advantage in a real way and use different tactics and strategies depending on how early in the game it is. DD's still get smoke to hide in, more than enough to get them out of dodge if they aren't over extending.


DD's still have 1 shot capable torpedoes, protect your teammates maybe? So what if you're having to lob shells over an island for a bit, DD guns can actually lay down quite alot of damage if you actually use them, and can set pretty consistent fires with how accurate the guns are. DD's were originally a support ship, as they should be. Not lone wolf assassins...

yes not being able to be immune to everything now, and staying virtually unspotted the entire game is a huge change, but that doesn't make you worthless, just means DD's require a bit more thinking than they used too, and a little more skill than they used too.

And Finally.... CV's are useless now:

Again, utterly false..

20190131135859_1.thumb.jpg.d9b37ee752ed1b9b5ddf318054cde5ce.jpg20190131142351_1.thumb.jpg.fcde65fccfcbff29a4e64aa02dba5acc.jpg

 

Both of these games were losses mind you, as most of my CV games are, but I normally get top 3, usually first on score. Carriers that are 2 tiers down, can barely get off 1 volley before all their planes are destroyed, yet with a little brain power, and critical thinking, I was able to still do 100k damage and do 2x more damage than the midway, who was complaining all game he couldn't even get 1 volley off (the enemy was bunching rather well tbh, kudo's to them, was impossible to get any air attacks in at first, until mid game when their AA got destroyed enough).

However this kind of proves my point, that Carriers are neither "useless" nor "dumbed down" from the previous iteration. THey require skill and tactics still, but in a different way. If they were brain dead simple like many argue then that midway should of absolutely destroyed them and done far better than me for sure, if they were "useless" as others argue then there's no way I could of done the damage I did being 2 tiers under..

Which planes to bring out when against which ships you plan to attack, where you attack, when you attack, when you spot, when you fly cap, when you use your fighters, and even where you position is even more critically important than before because you only get 1 squadron out at a time. You can't divert half your flight to engage an enemy squadron anymore, and continue your attack on another ship on the other side of the map. It's a critical choice. Assist the friendly ships with fighters, and attack the ships there, or continue on my planned course.
-------------------------

I really see a whole lot of over reactions, and knee jerk reactions to the carrier rework. A lot of mob mentality as well.. Which is unfortunate, because the CV rework is not nearly as bad or game changing as people paint it out to be. The core has been changed yes, but it still does everything its always intended to do, how you do it is different, but still just as effective and important as before.

 

 

Edit2:

I feel as though many people, especially DD mains again, will feel the same way as this person, so I wanted to put it in the OP here to explain my view on it.
 

 

Go figure, someone playing a CV thinks this is good for the game.

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2 hours ago, Lady_Athena said:

Except this is flat out wrong. You can spot and do stuff in the DD. There are only 2 squadrons max in the air, avoid them. You can still go wide and spot if need be though you will be at risk. These are risk choices every other ship has to face, except destroyers, until now.

In Alpha/Beta this is how it was, and it worked just fine. for the first year of live servers this is how it was, and it worked fine....
 

Haha. No it didnt work out fine. CVs had to be restricted in numbers and hard balanced in the MM.

Your post is entirely written from the CV drivers point of view. It might be fun for Sky Artillery, its not fun to be a fodderbote. Especially a DD.

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3 hours ago, Radar_X said:

Thanks for your feedback on this and we appreciate your flexibility in trying out the new system.  Please do let us know how things continue for you!

I see you're in like all 2 of the positive threads thanking people for your feedback, I don't so much notice a presence in the negative feedback threads.  Where are the thanks for that feedback?  Seems a bit one sided.

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i didnt played the test server, just watched the videos, i tought was cool but...

 playing now i agree, the cv are worst now, terrible and tedius gameplay

Tedius gameplay to fly in every giant map,
no strafes to kill enemy players or nice fights.
After 2 minutes fly in the tedius map,  an encounter AAs kill your entire squadron .....sux....
controls system to use torpedos, rockets and bombs camera/aim sux a lot.

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