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KnifeInUrNeck

Thoughts on the CV change after grinding 100k xp in carriers yesterday

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Alright captains, as the title says, I basically grinder out over 120k xp on both T6 carriers I own. Mostly the Japanese Ryoji. I will try to be as objective as possible and provide perspective. I never played much carrier before the 8.0 so I thought it might give me an edge to really test these guys out especially with the new missions coming. Here we go.

When I first started, I could barely get 10k dmg. I had trouble landing torps, thought bombs were pointless, and rockets were weak. I can now safely say none of those things are true. Torps are intuitive after a bit of practice to where I can now even torp DDs in some cases. Rockets are no doubt the bane of DDs. Beyond the spotting, being slowly chewed up by rocket squads with 12 planes in each means a lot of tiny cuts. I didn’t run flags besides economic and flooding so my fire info is meh. I learned at about 50k xp that bombs are monsters after landing 6 cits without really trying but this was on BBs. I am now at the point we’re i can fairly confidently wipe out a same tier B.B. that has no AA support using torps. Being uptiered though is horrible as the planes get annihilated. I end most games with at least 2 kills and I have had multiple 100k+ games so far in my CV. 

So what does this all mean and how has the meta shifted? Firstly, I can say the hardest targets are those surrounded by cruisers. Some DDs are capable of defending themselves like Kidd but most are easy targets. The ones that survive the longest stay within range of friendly AA. This holds true for most BBs not named Massachusetts and a few others but a good pilot can melt a solo BB. I usually save cruisers for last unless I am forced to make a move. CVs that coordinate are far more effective. I played a random where me and someone I never met worked in unison to turn the tide and win. CV on CV attacks are hard but possible but in my opinion, that time could be better spent on other targets. Time is the most valuable resource for cv pilots and proper target selection and time management make a huge difference. Overall, so far, the new meta appears to be tighter teamwork. You don’t need a powerful AA suite if the guy next to you has one. Just my thoughts so far. 

Edited by KnifeInUrNeck
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Some of my favorite moments so far are lining up an attack run with a torpedo squadron on an evading DD or CA.  Trying to guess where they are going to go,  trying to get them to commit to a turn before I drop.  I dunno,  for some reason I just find it really fun.  If I miss I give the guy or gal props for outplaying me and give it a second go,  or find an easier target to attack.

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Yeah it’s trickier and more skill based in my opinion since there’s no guides. I’m literally making split second calculations before I drop and watching smoke stacks for last minute maneuvers. I don’t even mind the low dmg but I do find myself hoping for flooding. Try the bombs at all? Getting cits on a cv is a first for me. 

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A mature, measured response after putting serious time and effort into finding your groove. Truly, the rarest and most precious of things on the forums these days.

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4 minutes ago, Lert said:

A mature, measured response after putting serious time and effort into finding your groove. Truly, the rarest and most precious of things on the forums these days.

 

Very true, someone who didnt give up when their first games were pitiful in damage.

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I like the CV rework in most parts, but one of the main problem is, it's little bit too much easy for a good CV player to harass a non USN dd. It's little too much for the guy whos under constant threat from the said CV

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1 minute ago, VVoony said:

It's little too much for the guy whos under constant threat from the said CV

Any CV who puts a DD under 'constant threat' surrenders 100% of his ability to do damage to the red team. It was way easier to keep a DD permaspotted while still being useful in other ways under the old way. Now? It's either keep something lit or do damage.

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28 minutes ago, KnifeInUrNeck said:

Being uptiered though is horrible as the planes get annihilated.

Uptiering is BRUTAL. I had issues enough with the Kaga and her stock planes.

31 minutes ago, KnifeInUrNeck said:

Overall, so far, the new meta appears to be tighter teamwork. You don’t need a powerful AA suite if the guy next to you has one. Just my thoughts so far. 

Maybe I'm crazy, but it was always in your best interest to snuggle up to a decent AA suite ship when a red carrier was in play. Now though, the red carrier has to actually think if it would be worth the time to devote to throwing away squadrons as opposed to "well I'll lose a couple of planes but I'll still be able to outright delete/cripple a high priority target the rest of the game"

43 minutes ago, KnifeInUrNeck said:

Some DDs are capable of defending themselves like Kidd but most are easy targets. The ones that survive the longest stay within range of friendly AA

From other posts on the forums you would think that it's the end for DD's in the game, and the game is ruined. I find while playing DDs (I'm not a good DD player by any metric) that if I play a few km outside of friendly ships if I do suddenly get attention from the red CV, I can survive a few rocket /bomb salvos and get back to friendly AA. I think a shift in gameplay is going to be warranted for DD players until the CV apocalypse dies down and we see more reasonable numbers of them in matchmaking.

21 minutes ago, Lert said:

Any CV who puts a DD under 'constant threat' surrenders 100% of his ability to do damage to the red team. It was way easier to keep a DD permaspotted while still being useful in other ways under the old way. Now? It's either keep something lit or do damage.

Choice A: Be spotted permanently by a squadron that the red CV can have auto-follow you wherever you go until you get to allies or the friendly CV actually thinks it is worth sending a fighter squadron to cover you

Choice B: Be spotted while the CV drops on you with munitions, then become unspotted while the squadron returns to Carrier and you have 45s to a minute to get the hell out of dodge or find a friendly to snuggle up to before his next squadron arrives. 

I know which one I prefer.

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Hello Captain,

I am glad you spent some time playing and learning the new CVs.

Continue playing and getting better =).

We appreciate the feedback and keep it coming!

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Wow great work and thank you. Looking to get my deep dive in this weekend.

gene wilder film GIF

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You would almost think that it is possible 8.0 may have made this game a bit more challenging for all classes with perhaps a bit more depth of play?    No wait.. What was I thinking?  ....... 8.0 sucks and the sky is still falling on us all!     

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1 hour ago, Lert said:

Any CV who puts a DD under 'constant threat' surrenders 100% of his ability to do damage to the red team. It was way easier to keep a DD permaspotted while still being useful in other ways under the old way. Now? It's either keep something lit or do damage.

That is actually not true... you can keep a DD lit within reason while still doing damage for your team. But it's a trade off. Dropping fighters over the area the DD is in will keep him spotted until he sails out of that area. So you can swoop in drop fighters and bugger off to kill things while your fighters keep him spotted. 

 

The trade off is that your fighters are only usable so many times and he can just sail away from them. It also removes them from being used to assist your team for AA which may be more useful. So it's definitely a trade off but can be done with proper micro management 

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36 minutes ago, WyrmVonSturm said:

From other posts on the forums you would think that it's the end for DD's in the game, and the game is ruined.

The difference may be biased based on so many CVs in play but it seems all ships are spotted much sooner by aircraft than they used to be. The planes don't have to be all that close and you are spotted. The CV may be targeting someone else and you are spotted too.

So, as a DD, if you can't get anywhere near the enemy fleet, spend all your time huddled up to a friendly cruiser (until he gets spotted and blapped), your game can easily be ruined.

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3 minutes ago, Romic said:

That is actually not true... you can keep a DD lit within reason while still doing damage for your team. But it's a trade off. Dropping fighters over the area the DD is in will keep him spotted until he sails out of that area. So you can swoop in drop fighters and bugger off to kill things while your fighters keep him spotted. 

 

The trade off is that your fighters are only usable so many times and he can just sail away from them. It also removes them from being used to assist your team for AA which may be more useful. So it's definitely a trade off but can be done with proper micro management 

True, true. However:

  1. How many people can actually pull that off?
  2. Still a lot less spotting coverage than with the old system.

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Also i don't think that the cvs are capable of doing a good amount damage when you consider the amount of AA,Uptiering and that some planes cant maneuver well to avoid flack; i think that cvs should do 30% less damage against Destroyers, 34% more damage against cruisers, 55% more damage against Battleships and 67%more damage against other cvs(also or remove cvs immunity to fire/flood damage or give it to every ship).

And perma-spotting is still a thing(now is worse with the amount of cvs per game + radar + ....................................)   

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Yeah sucks to face the two tier higher AA but I do what I can. A T6 CV against the T8 AA of Mass and Clevelands is painful for a couple reasons. The planes die which weakens your next strike unless you change armaments or just wait. I had a game where all 3 got wiped out and I was basically useless short of spotting. I don’t mind though. I’m still learning the ins and outs of AA evasion and early drops. As far as DDs are concerned, they can still be front of the pack scouting but I’d stay at around 7km from the nearest AA cruiser or at least be ready to head back to one. I think a lot of DD mains are upset because DDs used to set the pace and kinda lead the engagement. There wasn’t enough CV players for them to regularly fill that roll and even then it was mostly dmg farming on big targets. A good CV captain now fills that role, for better or worse. Being able to spot and harass was the domain of DDs but I think that mantle has been passed so there might be some growing pains. 

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My assessment of CVs so far:

Played T6 and T8 CVs in co-op. Ranger, Lexington, Shoukaku, Enterprise.

 

Attacking

Really suck at hitting DDs with rockets. Turning with A/D too much throws off the attack entirely, adjusting with the mouse not fast enough considering the approach speed.

Torpedoes fairly straightforward. USN ones need a lot more lead though, even with Torpedo Acceleration. Hit DDs with them, mainly because they're bots and don't maneuver smartly.

Bombs slightly harder to learn. Not a lot of room to adjust approach after initiating. AP bombs still significantly better than HE bombs. High-dropping bombs is very easy.

 

In general

AA ranges varies wildly in a matter of seconds from mostly clear skies to flak walls that would make a certain president proud.

Rarely got to use the last attack of any squadron. Didn't bother with Last Gasp because I'd only be recalling them to the CV. I spec as much as possible into aircraft speed.

Always found my squads short on boost. Maybe I'm not using the engine cooling thing properly. I wonder if Superintendent affects planes. Too bad I have to stick with Aircraft Armor.

 

Specific comments

Unsure of Sight Stabilization as a mandatory skill. Might be able to drop it for SE (looks a bit weak?) or something else.

Ranger feels a bit anemic, damage in very low unless a DoT sticks. No clue on Ryuujou or T4s, but I imagine it's similar or even worse.

Still miffed that Lexington has 3km more detection than Shoukaku. It's not like the former's planes are better than the latter's, I personally think it's the opposite.

Dropping a fighter squad to freely spot destroyers is a bit cheesy. Probably works better in randoms because bot cruisers are suicidal. I'd still prefer fighter squads to not provide spotting.

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3 hours ago, Lert said:

True, true. However:

  1. How many people can actually pull that off?
  2. Still a lot less spotting coverage than with the old system.

For that second point.  Do you know if the returning planes can spot targets they fly over?...... if so I think that should be changed and the fighters you can call in should also be changed to only be able to spot other planes since that is all they can do anything about.... Normally I wouldn't suggest changing the fighter spotting but it does seem to be a little bit of a cheat being able to drop them and leave the area without needing to use them for what they are actually meant for. I personally wouldn't want to waist a fighter squad on that but if it gets results.....

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Please for Gods Sake! tone down the amount of planes and there speed asap!

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Glad to see a fellow level headed person like myself. Will you please share some tips on how the new style works?

9 hours ago, KnifeInUrNeck said:

Alright captains, as the title says, I basically grinder out over 120k xp on both T6 carriers I own. Mostly the Japanese Ryoji. I will try to be as objective as possible and provide perspective. I never played much carrier before the 8.0 so I thought it might give me an edge to really test these guys out especially with the new missions coming. Here we go.

When I first started, I could barely get 10k dmg. I had trouble landing torps, thought bombs were pointless, and rockets were weak. I can now safely say none of those things are true. Torps are intuitive after a bit of practice to where I can now even torp DDs in some cases. Rockets are no doubt the bane of DDs. Beyond the spotting, being slowly chewed up by rocket squads with 12 planes in each means a lot of tiny cuts. I didn’t run flags besides economic and flooding so my fire info is meh. I learned at about 50k xp that bombs are monsters after landing 6 cits without really trying but this was on BBs. I am now at the point we’re i can fairly confidently wipe out a same tier B.B. that has no AA support using torps. Being uptiered though is horrible as the planes get annihilated. I end most games with at least 2 kills and I have had multiple 100k+ games so far in my CV. 

So what does this all mean and how has the meta shifted? Firstly, I can say the hardest targets are those surrounded by cruisers. Some DDs are capable of defending themselves like Kidd but most are easy targets. The ones that survive the longest stay within range of friendly AA. This holds true for most BBs not named Massachusetts and a few others but a good pilot can melt a solo BB. I usually save cruisers for last unless I am forced to make a move. CVs that coordinate are far more effective. I played a random where me and someone I never met worked in unison to turn the tide and win. CV on CV attacks are hard but possible but in my opinion, that time could be better spent on other targets. Time is the most valuable resource for cv pilots and proper target selection and time management make a huge difference. Overall, so far, the new meta appears to be tighter teamwork. You don’t need a powerful AA suite if the guy next to you has one. Just my thoughts so far. 

 

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My biggest issue is that CV's can launch planes right at the start of the match.  It needs like a 10 to 20 second delay.  I routinely launched a attack squadron and speed boosted them across the other side of the map to spot the entire group of enemies before they even got to full speed and then dump a boat load of rockets on a DD who is still trying to get up to speed.

I do feel DD's should maybe lose another 0.5 km on their spotting distance to aircraft.  While yes there are less planes on the field then before, they are more often committed and not wandering around aimlessly looking for an attack that won't get them killed or hunting other air squadrons and DD's get spotted much more often then they did in the old system.

Also the view while dropping bombs sometimes really sucks.

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It is important to study all the new AA values of every ship, because some ships that had God tier AA now has garbage AA and vice versa. The new AA values are very confusing to read, as we have to realize now that they no longer stack. The rules are completely different than anything we understand before. Def AA no longer dictates the AA role of ship, now you can see weird things like Belfast killing planes much faster than Altanta/Flint with Def AA up as the 3km and within AA of Altanta/Flint is very pitiful compared to Belfast.

Edited by CCloak

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9 hours ago, KnifeInUrNeck said:

Yeah it’s trickier and more skill based in my opinion since there’s no guides. I’m literally making split second calculations before I drop and watching smoke stacks for last minute maneuvers. I don’t even mind the low dmg but I do find myself hoping for flooding. Try the bombs at all? Getting cits on a cv is a first for me. 

Yeah,  dive bombers in general and AP ones in specific are an interesting bag.  You can drop high with less accuracy for better penetration,  or drop low for less penetration but better accuracy.  Probably sounds obvious but I drop high on slow moving BB's and gradually drop lower the smaller and or faster the target.  Height drop is definitely more important for AP bombers but once you get the hang of it,  its not so bad.

Rockets are my least used plane type but I probably need to fix that.  You can accurately pick where you want to try to start fires on ships and I tend to use Tiny Tims so I have a good chance of starting multiple fires with a single squadron.  I visible wince whenever someone puts out a single fire though,  that particular misstep hurts even my potato soul.

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9 hours ago, iKami said:

Hello Captain,

I am glad you spent some time playing and learning the new CVs.

Continue playing and getting better =).

We appreciate the feedback and keep it coming!

CV's need to be limited to 1 per side/ per battle....now.........if they have to wait in que, let them wait in que......2 of them with unlimited planes is simply ridiculous/unbalanced.

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