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xeg0r

My thoughts on CV rework and more

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So the biggest criticism I have towards the CV rework is that AA is not effective enough - unless you have a beast mode AA ship (of which the traditional ones are no longer) then you can't do crap, and will get attacked at will. The biggest change here is the reduction of AA range, and the stupid accuracy % applied per ship class. Why should Atlanta have worse AA efficiency than ANY other DD? This needs to be rebalanced, as a DD can have far more AA impact than a floating AA fortress like the Duke of York (seriously this ship has great AA for tier now, like the only thing going for it). Efficiency should not be essentially flat per class/gun as it currently is, but be based around the design (e.g. fire control systems) and purpose of the ship.

Remove RNG from AA interaction and allow us to directly interact with the incoming planes ala manual aim or some mechanic. You have tried to remove the RTS flavour of old CV play, but in doing so haven't addressed the overall biggest thing - 100% of our interaction with planes is RNG. Which means skill has nothing to do with it, which means we rely on dice rolls to determine the outcome - which means a good CV player can game US while we can not game THEM. This is the biggest reason why people hate CV - the can influence the game too much while we are unable to do anythign other than rely on RNG to swing things in our favour (discounting CV player skill). This is NOT a flight simulator and the RNG barrier between ships and planes only hurts the game... maybe CV should be 100% AI and we can call in strikes?

The initial plane amount/respawn rate is also too high, and despite having 2 AA focused BB taking  down 50 planes between us, we never had any time when we were facing half squadrons or breathing room while the cv waited for respawn. This is particularly bad with the 2-3 CV per side currently seen, and that the CV have no way to directly counter each other (either that or the CV players simply aren't doing it).

AA sector selection is a bad mechanic and has a pointless interface (just allow us to assign sector hotkeys if you keep it), and should go back to the old ctrl click to select focus. There should be no reduction to other areas if a plane/sector is selected. Sector selection is too easy for a CV player to counter, and Cruiser/BB sector selection usually can't keep up.

DFAA needs to increase the rate at which flak bursts are created, and improved the efficiency - just higher damage with a 66% hit chance is not adequate. DFAA on an AA cruiser or DD should mean the CV is punished for not being aware. Buff the efficiency rating while DFAA is active (improve hit chance aka to hit rolls).

AA range also needs to be extended for certain ships.

AA definitely needs a rework to return the flavour of certain AA focused ships, and overall ALL ships need a buff to the passive damage output. Many T9 ships have WORSE AA than t7 ships. And I'm sorry all you pay-t-win haters out there, but I feel that if I paid real money for a premium (e.g. Atlanta), and it gets directly nerfed by significant gameplay changes then it should either be addressed with priority or refunded. Yes Atlanta is more than just an AA platform, but this was part of the allure of the ship. And don't say "well you shouldn't have wasted money on the game" because you don't get to judge how I spend my money.

And with all these changes just happened, people aren't playing properly - once a CV sets it's sights on you it  appeared most people found it impossible to play properly currently because of the huge distraction it is. Because of this most people focus completely on planes and ignore ships. Was a weird night.

BUT I must say this to fellow players who are unhappy - 3 of us anti-rework players in a div still had a blast last night as we got over our initial intense hatred of the changes. I am still not a fan, but this isn't enough to make me quit the game.  Give it time, take a deep breath and give it another shot. While the CV may be annoying they aren't able to one shot you anymore with a cross drop, and no more AP bombs. While AA does need a buff, CV have been reduced to the level of an Atlanta behind and island - very annoying and will kill you if you ignore it long enough, but simple enough to play around. (Unless there are 3 CV per side).

 

TO WARGAMING: 
Your new changes are not properly balanced and should not have been rushed out. Not only that, you have failed to address the RNG barrier between ships and planes (IMHO you made it worse), while removing it between planes and ships by giving CV players direct control of the planes. You have alienated your community by not listening to us. You risk losing a good portion of your community if you do not make this right, and FAST. There is a small window of opportunity here while you still have the good will of the community. Use it and get us involved properly in the rebalance before you lose the community AND START LISTENING TO PLAYER COMPLAINTS! All of us, not just your CC and super testers. WE form your community. 

Many members of our clan stopped play testing because we were essentially discouraged from giving negative feedback - which is the feedback that is most important to a business. It appears your product owners and devs have too much emotion invested in their changes, and will soldier on ahead regardless of the feedback / get fanboys to shoot down negative feedback in misguided attempts to curry favor and protect those who do not need protection. Case in point - the detection bloom cool down reversion. This should never have happened, not with the strong levels of feedback from the community.

On this note - play testing needs to be rewarded better, easier to participate in (why do I need a whole other install? There must be a better way to do this), and you need to start policing the reporting forum and allow people to express their findings without being mauled for daring having an opinion. This community is slowly becoming more and more toxic (starting to get to CS:GO levels IMHO) and needs a kick in the pants before it gets too deeply ingrained in the culture of players.


*EDIT: This is an opinion piece, and my opinion is very fallible and subject to rapid change. I am starting to like the changes more, but still think that WG went about the change process in too much isolation and rushed it out. Needs more work on the rework and it shows.

Edited by xeg0r

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I am a BB main and I am now finding torpedo bombers less threatening now, I could barely scratch planes before in the same tier but god help me if I was a tier 8 in a tier 10. 

With the introduction of the AP bombs in the old CV's Bismarck would be deleted in one pass by 2x squadrons. 

Then if a midway decided to torpedo bomb me, it was all over. 

 

While AA might not kill many planes (better than the old RNG [edited] that was before) I can disrupt their drop's enough to have a good fighting chance to live. 

I am also enjoying the rework, makes it actually fun now. 

 

People are starting to band together and move in fleets (Week night players, duno what the weekend players are going to be like) 

As a whole it is really fun 

 

Don't get me wrong, continuous balance changes have always been needed in this game, didn't come out of beta with no further patching or tweaks to mechanics. 

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I agree, about the reduced damage and am slowly coming to like the changes.
I do think that this will take another patch or two to balance properly. And honestly I don't think it will be possible to ever remove the RNG barrier between the ships and planes - but it does need improving

Edited by xeg0r

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Don't like carriers... Go into co-op. The only ones will be on YOUR side, and you can laugh your aft off as they get wiped out and end up owing credits at the end.

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First off, from what I've been reading from players, AA is actually too strong right now rather than not being strong enough. A single flak burst can shred half your planes instantly, and some ships have so so many medium and long range mounts that it's nearly impossible to always dodge them. A single mistake while weaving your planes will force that CV player to F return his planes since they will either be dead or so broken that it's not worth the risk to lose them.

As for manually aimed AA ... I'm on the fence. On one hand, it would be potentially too strong unless they nerfed AA DPS considerably. Second, it means that while that player was shooting down planes, he could not actually use his main guns to shoot at other ships.

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Yeah the whole manually aimed AA thing was an off the cuff remark that I am sure would be almost impossible to implement properly.

One thought about AA being too strong/weak is that for the first few drops many CV players are essentially unopposed as their planes absorb the damage, so we only start to see plane kills if they hit a flak burst or after a few drops when health starts dropping. How do we get it so that players feel like their AA is having a measurable impact on the performance of the planes rather than oh well i cut his health a but (can't see it) which led the planes eventual death 2 drops later.

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I played the Texas Yesterday and had a great game the 2 enemy carriers teamed up on me and my AA took out 17 Planes and survived to capture a Cap. A cruiser rushed in and assisted he got another 15 Planes. We had a Ball.

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13 minutes ago, AVR_Project said:

Don't like carriers... Go into co-op. The only ones will be on YOUR side, and you can laugh your aft off as they get wiped out and end up owing credits at the end.

Really...

No trouble making bank in Co-op so far, as much as I’ve sucked wind with the new controls.

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It will be interesting to see if the whole sailing in fleets for mutual AA support becomes part of the meta (more than it was) or is just temporary. I def enjoyed sailing with an AA spec div last night, but I must say damage numbers we LOW due to our focus on planes.

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26 minutes ago, xeg0r said:

Yeah the whole manually aimed AA thing was an off the cuff remark that I am sure would be almost impossible to implement properly.

One thought about AA being too strong/weak is that for the first few drops many CV players are essentially unopposed as their planes absorb the damage, so we only start to see plane kills if they hit a flak burst or after a few drops when health starts dropping. How do we get it so that players feel like their AA is having a measurable impact on the performance of the planes rather than oh well i cut his health a but (can't see it) which led the planes eventual death 2 drops later.

Well, here's the thing. If squads can only get a single drop off at a time, their overall damage will suffer immensely unless they can bring in their carriers really close. It would the equivalent of a Bismarck only ever shooting it's two front guns, if that. And even seemingly perfect drops are only perfect if the opposing player won't dodge.

Currently, I find the AA makes the second drop very very difficult to accurately land without losing far too many planes and draining your hangar to some abysmal numbers. Even with 'unlimited planes', it will still only load a single fresh plane per type once every 90 to 120 minutes, so unless you want to start flying out half sized squads halfway through the match, it's in your best interest to play VERY conservatively as a CV.

Now I don't know if this was intentional design and that CVs are supposed to wait for their cruiser buddies to HE break a bunch of AA mounts on enemy ships, but right now, AA does seem quite rough overall.

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Despite the 3 ship AA flotilla racking up 50 downed planes between us, we, all three of us, were eventually killed by the 2 CV's on the opposing team - the red ships did some damage but the hurt was put on by the CV for sure. There sure didn't seem to be a shortage of planes, as the half sized squads still performed well.
I will have to play some CV (really not appealing to me) to see it from the other side.

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