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handybilly

Loot boxes and the lesson learned

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I spent about 50 bucks on loot boxes during the past holiday event. Got a stack of stuff and two of the most despised premiums in the game. OK, lesson learned.

I had not realized what an issue loot boxes in the video gaming industry have become. As most of you know, Belgium, in a move of apparent rationality has banned loot boxes altogether. I don't know how Flemish gameboys and girls are liking this but do admire the nation's leadership for trying. Other countries such as the UK and US have opted to not ban them and do not consider them to be on line gambling. However my country (the US) has embraced all sorts of gambling like crack cocaine in the past 20 years so I don't see a forthcoming ban on loot boxes. 

As a life long gamer WOW is the first pay to play game that I have become involved with. I have to admit that there is an addiction problem here (after all it is a  hell of a lot of fun) and though I jumped in last year swearing never to pay for anything, my guess is that I have spent about $250 over the course of my  3,000 plus games. Not a big deal because if you measure the money spent for enjoyment gained it actually is pretty reasonable. But it is alarming because it is the most I have ever spent on any one game. 

Not bashing this format at all because there are many good reasons for it. In the old days you bought and downloaded a game and hoped the devs would give you two or three updates and bug fixes before they abandoned the game due to lack of revenue. As a result virtually all games were flawed and incomplete. Games like WoW are constantly being improved and fixed because the company has a constant cash flow from the game and their continued efforts. However, the concept of loot boxes is taking it to another level due to the effort to exploit the spending habits of the gaming population and further monetize them. There is cause for alarm.  Of course, the standard argument is that nobody is forced to do it will surely pop up but that argument fails to see the difference between common sense buying and addiction, and certainly not the fact that the gaming industry is willing to exploit that difference. 

I think that I will stay away from loot boxes in the future and view them for what they are-gambling and gambling with a house that will always have the edge over you. (This is how all gambling works). Lets face it WoW is selling you fools gold for cash. There are long threads that go on endlessly where fanboys brag about the loot they got. However remember it is a win situation for the gaming companies because they are trading digital make believe products for hard cash.  Well, we all love stories from our buddies about how they went to Vegas and won a thousand bucks. Nobody really brags about all the crap they lost in order to get to that win. 

Am I bashing the game? Of course not. It is a lot of fun to go on line and blast ships into atoms and pimp your own rides.  But I am going to stick to my own rules in the future and would like to share them with you. 

1. The difference between entertainment and gambling is that in one you can stick to your budget and in the other you always spend more than you want. I got plenty of money to spend but when I go to Vegas to play my beloved blackjack, I have a budget and stick to it. That is called paying for entertainment.  I also do my research so that I never make the wrong play. In WoW go on line and do your research as well so that you spend wisely.  

2. Carefully vet the stuff that you want and buy only what you really want and will  use. Look for deals and use coupons. I have only purchased about a half dozen premium ships and usually opt for mid tier value and go for well recommended ships.  I play silver ships at the higher tiers and find they work very well. 

3. I know it is really hard to resist but don't buy that new premium the day it hit the shelves. Wait until the word get out about the ships and its qualities. You may find that you really do not want it. Lot's of people here moaning about ships that they jumped on and did not like. Should be a morning after pill for that but there is not....

4. No more loot boxes-ever. If you can't see the logic in this you really wasted you time reading this post. 

The last thing I want to point how is how many of you love to collect ships and are really proud of your bloated and very expensive inventory. I have hear of accounts being sold on the internets for tons of money. But if you fall into this then you are being quite foolish and like most fad purchasers will eventually end up with nothing (except for those few smart enough to sell at the right time and get out). WoW is a digital video games and all of them, no matter what, have a certain shelf life. Once the game population chooses to move onto another game then everything that you bought will be worth nothing.  Ten years from now will anybody even care about your complete WoW premium collection? Probably not. Think about fad in the past such as Beanie Babies, Pogs, Pokemon Cards, and most the most famous, Tulips in Holland in the early 1600's. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania. In other words the money you are spending on the game today will all be gone forever eventually and you will have nothing in return but the entertainment you got out of it. So, decide not what you are willing to spend on entertainment today and keep to that decision. 

Does this all make sense?

 

Edited by handybilly
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Well written.  I agree 100% that the loot box is really a form of gambling and produces the same rush.  For a lot of people it is totally controllable, but for a lot of people it is uncontrollable. 

Considering that young people play this game; I find the whole issue troubling. 

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Guess this could be said for just about any activity money is spent on.  All about choice, be it a $5 latte at Starbucks, or a vacation somewhere, expensive dinner out, etc.... Choices between alternatives is up to the individual, and I am sure that for anyone take all the recreational money spend and buy a tangible asset like gold or put the money into a sound investment we be smarter, but it is also important to enjoy life and if you are spending appropriate amounts given your income level, as long as you are having a good time, does it matter that at the end you only have the memories?

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47 minutes ago, handybilly said:

 

1. The difference between entertainment and gambling is that in one you can stick to your budget and in the other you always spend more than you want. I got plenty of money to spend but when I go to Vegas to play my beloved blackjack, I have a budget and stick to it. That is called paying for entertainment.  I also do my research so that I never make the wrong play. In WoW go on line and do your research as well so that you spend wisely.  

 

I think the important distinction here is, do you get something for your money or is it a win lose equation. With the loot boxes if you add up the individual values of the items you get, at the very least you break even, often you do reasonably better than the amount of money you spent.

Most complaints I have seen revolve around the purchaser not getting what they wanted. In general I would say once you have reached a certain resource level in the game, such as Free XP silver, flags etc, the boxes diminish in perceived value to the player.

 

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11 minutes ago, MG1962 said:

Most complaints I have seen revolve around the purchaser not getting what they wanted. In general I would say once you have reached a certain resource level in the game, such as Free XP silver, flags etc, the boxes diminish in perceived value to the player.

That's true, but, also, I don't think we need people like the OP trying to tell everyone else how to spend their own money.

If you don't like lootboxes, please, do not purchase them.  I have no problem with that action on anyone's part.

Not all lootboxes are equal.  Some are known to be complete trash, and I wouldn't buy them, either.

My advice with WG, if anything that's not a ship or a doubloon is trash in your eyes, don't EVER buy a WG loot crate.  You're setting up yourself for disappointment.  It's still your choice, though.  Just don't expect sympathy if you don't get what you want.

However, OP please take your nose out of my wallet, and out of how I spend *my* money.  You make your choices, and I'll make my choices.  You don't make my choices for me.  I *definitely* don't want the government in the middle of it.  I trust them even less than game companies.

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17 minutes ago, Hali_greg said:

Considering that young people play this game; I find the whole issue troubling. 

That's up to the parents to police that.  Again, I don't want the government in the middle of it.  I trust them even less than the game companies.  They just want their cut of the action if they can find a way.

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Let's assume that WG's loot boxes fall under the legal definition of gambling.  I don't believe that they do, but for argument's sake, let's say that they are gambling.

It doesn't mean that they are illegal.  It does mean that they are age restricted.  State law then requires identification to prove age.  How do you prove your age well enough to satisfy that law?  Photo ID is usually the way to go.  How will that work?  If something else is needed, what information are you willing to give to a company based in a foreign country to prove your age?

EA got into a bit of a jam when they ignored the law of the land in Belgium.  The Belgian government was going to either press charges or bring a suit against EA.  EA then removed the loot system from FIFA 19 for all the Belgian customers only when threatened with legal action.  WG is smarter than that.

I like some of the loot crates in WOWS and would hate to see them go because someone on WG's end can't figure out a noninvasive way for us to prove our age.  

I'm 58 years old and a Citizen of the Republic and I don't want or need the government telling me what I can and can't spend my money on.

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3 minutes ago, MG1962 said:

I think the important distinction here is, do you get something for your money or is it a win lose equation. With the loot boxes if you add up the individual values of the items you get, at the very least you break even, often you do reasonably better than the amount of money you spent.

Most complaints I have seen revolve around the purchaser not getting what they wanted. In general I would say once you have reached a certain resource level in the game, such as Free XP silver, flags etc, the boxes diminish in perceived value to the player.

 

Yeah, people seem to consider "I didn't get what I wanted" to be gambling, when it is really not.  There's a difference between WoWs crates and EA's lootboxes.

Because it's EA's fault, this whole kafuffle.

Whenever Wargaming has offered a "free" way to get a premium ship, the means to get it free has not been impossible.  The premium ships have never been an impediment to your progression through the game, though they are a nice way to make things easier, just as premium time is, or the signals.  You don't NEED these things, but they are a nice advantage.

EA decided that you could get Darth Vader in a crate (with really low odds), or that you could work for it.  It was estimated that it would take most people YEARS at 8 hours a day to earn Darth Vader the "free" way.  That's where all this [edited] about lootcrates has come from.

WoWs crates are tame by comparison.

Lotteries have often been stated that they are a tax on people who are bad at math.  WoWs loot crates fall into that category.  Sure, you could win big, but likely all you're going to get at most is 2 bucks or "Sorry, please try again."  Take that to heart.  If all you can afford is a few bucks, buy a crate and laugh.  But if you decide that you can spend 50 bucks on WoWs?  Get premium time, or a low to mid tier premium ship.  Maybe some gold to convert elite XP to free XP, or do some captain retraining.  Those things are a far better deal than the loot crates.

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1 hour ago, handybilly said:

I spent about 50 bucks on loot boxes during the past holiday event. Got a stack of stuff and two of the most despised premiums in the game. OK, lesson learned.

I had not realized what an issue loot boxes in the video gaming industry have become. As most of you know, Belgium, in a move of apparent rationality has banned loot boxes altogether. I don't know how Flemish gameboys and girls are liking this but do admire the nation's leadership for trying. Other countries such as the UK and US have opted to not ban them and do not consider them to be on line gambling. However my country (the US) has embraced all sorts of gambling like crack cocaine in the past 20 years so I don't see a forthcoming ban on loot boxes. 

As a life long gamer WOW is the first pay to play game that I have become involved with. I have to admit that there is an addiction problem here (after all it is a  hell of a lot of fun) and though I jumped in last year swearing never to pay for anything, my guess is that I have spent about $250 over the course of my  3,000 plus games. Not a big deal because if you measure the money spent for enjoyment gained it actually is pretty reasonable. But it is alarming because it is the most I have ever spent on any one game. 

Not bashing this format at all because there are many good reasons for it. In the old days you bought and downloaded a game and hoped the devs would give you two or three updates and bug fixes before they abandoned the game due to lack of revenue. As a result virtually all games were flawed and incomplete. Games like WoW are constantly being improved and fixed because the company has a constant cash flow from the game and their continued efforts. However, the concept of loot boxes is taking it to another level due to the effort to exploit the spending habits of the gaming population and further monetize them. There is cause for alarm.  Of course, the standard argument is that nobody is forced to do it will surely pop up but that argument fails to see the difference between common sense buying and addiction, and certainly not the fact that the gaming industry is willing to exploit that difference. 

I think that I will stay away from loot boxes in the future and view them for what they are-gambling and gambling with a house that will always have the edge over you. (This is how all gambling works). Lets face it WoW is selling you fools gold for cash. There are long threads that go on endlessly where fanboys brag about the loot they got. However remember it is a win situation for the gaming companies because they are trading digital make believe products for hard cash.  Well, we all love stories from our buddies about how they went to Vegas and won a thousand bucks. Nobody really brags about all the crap they lost in order to get to that win. 

Am I bashing the game? Of course not. It is a lot of fun to go on line and blast ships into atoms and pimp your own rides.  But I am going to stick to my own rules in the future and would like to share them with you. 

1. The difference between entertainment and gambling is that in one you can stick to your budget and in the other you always spend more than you want. I got plenty of money to spend but when I go to Vegas to play my beloved blackjack, I have a budget and stick to it. That is called paying for entertainment.  I also do my research so that I never make the wrong play. In WoW go on line and do your research as well so that you spend wisely.  

2. Carefully vet the stuff that you want and buy only what you really want and will  use. Look for deals and use coupons. I have only purchased about a half dozen premium ships and usually opt for mid tier value and go for well recommended ships.  I play silver ships at the higher tiers and find they work very well. 

3. I know it is really hard to resist but don't buy that new premium the day it hit the shelves. Wait until the word get out about the ships and its qualities. You may find that you really do not want it. Lot's of people here moaning about ships that they jumped on and did not like. Should be a morning after pill for that but there is not....

4. No more loot boxes-ever. If you can't see the logic in this you really wasted you time reading this post. 

The last thing I want to point how is how many of you love to collect ships and are really proud of your bloated and very expensive inventory. I have hear of accounts being sold on the internets for tons of money. But if you fall into this then you are being quite foolish and like most fad purchasers will eventually end up with nothing (except for those few smart enough to sell at the right time and get out). WoW is a digital video games and all of them, no matter what, have a certain shelf life. Once the game population chooses to move onto another game then everything that you bought will be worth nothing.  Ten years from now will anybody even care about your complete WoW premium collection? Probably not. Think about fad in the past such as Beanie Babies, Pogs, Pokemon Cards, and most the most famous, Tulips in Holland in the early 1600's. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania. In other words the money you are spending on the game today will all be gone forever eventually and you will have nothing in return but the entertainment you got out of it. So, decide not what you are willing to spend on entertainment today and keep to that decision. 

Does this all make sense?

 

WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT Oh,come on!!II! WALL WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXTthat's too deep if you don't like boxes don't buy them but please don't preach .













































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































 

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I'd rather not see more government involvement. If you don't believe the boxes are a good value, don't buy them. This is personal liberty. 

 

VR1ch49.gif

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2 minutes ago, RipNuN2 said:

I'd rather not see more government involvement. If you don't believe the boxes are a good value, don't buy them. This is personal liberty. 

Agreed! :cap_win:

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26 minutes ago, MG1962 said:

I think the important distinction here is, do you get something for your money or is it a win lose equation. With the loot boxes if you add up the individual values of the items you get, at the very least you break even, often you do reasonably better than the amount of money you spent.

Most complaints I have seen revolve around the purchaser not getting what they wanted. In general I would say once you have reached a certain resource level in the game, such as Free XP silver, flags etc, the boxes diminish in perceived value to the player.

 

Price does not equal value in a context without a market. The only seller is WG and we can not sell on the items to anyone else. The price of the items WG quotes tells us nothing about how the market as a whole valued the items.

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Gambling is when you win or lose..right? Loot boxes you cannot lose! …:) 

You just might not get what you were hoping for. I have found that RNG is more in my favor the more I spend.

See the source image

 

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1 hour ago, handybilly said:

I spent about 50 bucks on loot boxes during the past holiday event. Got a stack of stuff and two of the most despised premiums in the game. OK, lesson learned.

I had not realized what an issue loot boxes in the video gaming industry have become. As most of you know, Belgium, in a move of apparent rationality has banned loot boxes altogether. I don't know how Flemish gameboys and girls are liking this but do admire the nation's leadership for trying. Other countries such as the UK and US have opted to not ban them and do not consider them to be on line gambling. However my country (the US) has embraced all sorts of gambling like crack cocaine in the past 20 years so I don't see a forthcoming ban on loot boxes. 

As a life long gamer WOW is the first pay to play game that I have become involved with. I have to admit that there is an addiction problem here (after all it is a  hell of a lot of fun) and though I jumped in last year swearing never to pay for anything, my guess is that I have spent about $250 over the course of my  3,000 plus games. Not a big deal because if you measure the money spent for enjoyment gained it actually is pretty reasonable. But it is alarming because it is the most I have ever spent on any one game. 

Not bashing this format at all because there are many good reasons for it. In the old days you bought and downloaded a game and hoped the devs would give you two or three updates and bug fixes before they abandoned the game due to lack of revenue. As a result virtually all games were flawed and incomplete. Games like WoW are constantly being improved and fixed because the company has a constant cash flow from the game and their continued efforts. However, the concept of loot boxes is taking it to another level due to the effort to exploit the spending habits of the gaming population and further monetize them. There is cause for alarm.  Of course, the standard argument is that nobody is forced to do it will surely pop up but that argument fails to see the difference between common sense buying and addiction, and certainly not the fact that the gaming industry is willing to exploit that difference. 

I think that I will stay away from loot boxes in the future and view them for what they are-gambling and gambling with a house that will always have the edge over you. (This is how all gambling works). Lets face it WoW is selling you fools gold for cash. There are long threads that go on endlessly where fanboys brag about the loot they got. However remember it is a win situation for the gaming companies because they are trading digital make believe products for hard cash.  Well, we all love stories from our buddies about how they went to Vegas and won a thousand bucks. Nobody really brags about all the crap they lost in order to get to that win. 

Am I bashing the game? Of course not. It is a lot of fun to go on line and blast ships into atoms and pimp your own rides.  But I am going to stick to my own rules in the future and would like to share them with you. 

1. The difference between entertainment and gambling is that in one you can stick to your budget and in the other you always spend more than you want. I got plenty of money to spend but when I go to Vegas to play my beloved blackjack, I have a budget and stick to it. That is called paying for entertainment.  I also do my research so that I never make the wrong play. In WoW go on line and do your research as well so that you spend wisely.  

2. Carefully vet the stuff that you want and buy only what you really want and will  use. Look for deals and use coupons. I have only purchased about a half dozen premium ships and usually opt for mid tier value and go for well recommended ships.  I play silver ships at the higher tiers and find they work very well. 

3. I know it is really hard to resist but don't buy that new premium the day it hit the shelves. Wait until the word get out about the ships and its qualities. You may find that you really do not want it. Lot's of people here moaning about ships that they jumped on and did not like. Should be a morning after pill for that but there is not....

4. No more loot boxes-ever. If you can't see the logic in this you really wasted you time reading this post. 

The last thing I want to point how is how many of you love to collect ships and are really proud of your bloated and very expensive inventory. I have hear of accounts being sold on the internets for tons of money. But if you fall into this then you are being quite foolish and like most fad purchasers will eventually end up with nothing (except for those few smart enough to sell at the right time and get out). WoW is a digital video games and all of them, no matter what, have a certain shelf life. Once the game population chooses to move onto another game then everything that you bought will be worth nothing.  Ten years from now will anybody even care about your complete WoW premium collection? Probably not. Think about fad in the past such as Beanie Babies, Pogs, Pokemon Cards, and most the most famous, Tulips in Holland in the early 1600's. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania. In other words the money you are spending on the game today will all be gone forever eventually and you will have nothing in return but the entertainment you got out of it. So, decide not what you are willing to spend on entertainment today and keep to that decision. 

Does this all make sense?

 

I've spent several thousand dollars on this game, plus buying a completely new gaming rig to run it.  (Replacing the one I bought for WoT back in 2012),  It's never been anything but pay for entertainment to me.  I've typically stayed away from loot boxes, as I find it cheaper just to buy what I want, when I want it, rather than try and get it randomly.  Plus, since I've been here since closed beta, I have most of the rare ships people are trying for.  I just bought them out of the store when I wanted them.

Spoiler Alert: For those of you trying for restricted ships from loot boxes. . . stop.  They're good ships, but nothing could live up to their internet reputation.  Some of the best premiums in the game are available for sale commonly.  

My advice:  If a ship comes out that you want, just buy it.  Stop trying for restricted ships that while (some) are nice, aren't nearly as good as their legendary reputations.  Finally, if you're short on silver for some reason, Missouri isn't the only way to amass tons of silver in this game.  Much of my 200+ million silver stockpile came from play Alabama then Massachusetts and winning in 400k - 800k at a time.

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I'm all for transparency in loot boxes, and I would generally like to know what my chances are of obtaining an item prior to purchase. With that said, I generally avoid loot boxes in this game with the exception of Santa Crates which are an outstanding value for flags/camo/ships/etc. as long as you accept the random factor, and an aborted attempt at Black Friday crates (not worth it, to me). I understand there may be people with a gambling problem so a PSA is always advised, however, I spend my money responsibly on these crates as I suspect the vast majority do as well. 

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4 minutes ago, Excuse_Maker said:

Gambling is when you win or lose..right? Loot boxes you cannot lose! …:) 

You just might not get what you were hoping for. I have found that RNG is more in my favor the more I spend.

See the source image

 

Not getting what you want IS LOSING.

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You're paying real money for a bunch of pixels which you don't even own.  Put that in your head every time you see the next shiny object.

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1 hour ago, handybilly said:

But I am going to stick to my own rules in the future and would like to share them with you. 

1. The difference between entertainment and gambling is that in one you can stick to your budget and in the other you always spend more than you want. I got plenty of money to spend but when I go to Vegas to play my beloved blackjack, I have a budget and stick to it. That is called paying for entertainment.  I also do my research so that I never make the wrong play. In WoW go on line and do your research as well so that you spend wisely.  

2. Carefully vet the stuff that you want and buy only what you really want and will  use. Look for deals and use coupons. I have only purchased about a half dozen premium ships and usually opt for mid tier value and go for well recommended ships.  I play silver ships at the higher tiers and find they work very well. 

3. I know it is really hard to resist but don't buy that new premium the day it hit the shelves. Wait until the word get out about the ships and its qualities. You may find that you really do not want it. Lot's of people here moaning about ships that they jumped on and did not like. Should be a morning after pill for that but there is not....

4. No more loot boxes-ever. If you can't see the logic in this you really wasted you time reading this post. 

I agree wholeheartedly with 1 to 3. #4 is a matter of individual taste. Do as you will, but I do not think the government should be involved.

I looked at the Lunar New Year thing, for example, and considered that I didn't want the contents badly enough to throw the requisite money at 3 x 8888 doubloons. I will win as many Lunar crates as I can in-game, and if RNGesus is not kind enough to me there, I have enough ships to use that I won't bemoan the lack of new premiums.

I have bought the occasional crate or crate set from time to time, usually to top up some tokens (guaranteed content) or because I would be happy with the guaranteed content if the RNG did not come through. But I always look at the least the crate or bundle could give me, and if I'm not happy with that then my money stays in my wallet.

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I am selling small pebbles for $10 a piece.  You can buy a virtual crate that will have some random virtual stuff in it, and one of the items is guaranteed to be a voucher for a pebble.  I am selling the crates for only $5 a piece.  Its a great value because you are guaranteed to at least get double the value for the money you spend.  Everyone here should buy one because it is such a great value.  LOL.

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2 minutes ago, Murcc said:

I am selling small pebbles for $10 a piece.  You can buy a virtual crate that will have some random virtual stuff in it, and one of the items is guaranteed to be a voucher for a pebble.  I am selling the crates for only $5 a piece.  Its a great value because you are guaranteed to at least get double the value for the money you spend.  Everyone here should buy one because it is such a great value.  LOL.

Exactly.

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7 minutes ago, Murcc said:

I am selling small pebbles for $10 a piece.  You can buy a virtual crate that will have some random virtual stuff in it, and one of the items is guaranteed to be a voucher for a pebble.  I am selling the crates for only $5 a piece.  Its a great value because you are guaranteed to at least get double the value for the money you spend.  Everyone here should buy one because it is such a great value.  LOL.

The logical extreme of your position is a determination only ever to be FTP in this game. I started out that way, but changed my mind. I don't mind giving WG money to keep the lights on from time to time, so long as I get what I consider to be a benefit.

I don't mind taking measured risks and buying virtual things which might disappear, if I get enough use out of them. e.g. $40 CDN worth of Chinese take-away food is good for an hour's enjoyment. $40 CDN worth of T6 premium battleship (Warspite) has given me many hours of enjoyment already, and will continue to do so until the game disappears. I will buy port slots and permacamo on the same basis, because they offer ongoing utility. But throwing huge sums of money at crates just to get the camos and flags inside them, which are temporary, is not for me. I might have chucked some doubloons at FXP for Musashi, but I managed to grind her FXP out the usual way before the end. And so on.

Edited by Ensign_Cthulhu

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@handybilly

I speak honestly when I say this, I understand where you're coming from here, I really do. However, lets look at my situation for a second, just a second.

On the business my wife and I just started, we just forked over $699 for graphics design on a logo that we may or may not like (ie a gamble). It was our choice as was starting the business, which by the way was around a $60,000 "gamble" (without taking out a loan)....

Life's full of "gambles" and they all have one thing in common, "Choice". You have the "Choice" to either take one path or another and no one forced you to buy them just like no one forced us to start our business....

 

NOTE: Yes I read your post in depth, but your #4 took away almost all of the good points you were giving people with the summary of "No more Loot Boxes Ever" comment.

People can spent their money however they wish, the US is a "Capitalistic" country after all...

  • Cool 2

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2 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

The logical extreme of your position is a determination only ever to be FTP in this game. I started out that way, but changed my mind. I don't mind giving WG money to keep the lights on from time to time, so long as I get what I consider to be a benefit.

I don't mind taking measured risks and buying virtual things which might disappear, if I get enough use out of them. e.g. $40 CDN worth of Chinese take-away food is good for an hour's enjoyment. $40 CDN worth of T6 premium battleship (Warspite) has given me many hours of enjoyment already, and will continue to do so until the game disappears. I will buy port slots and permacamo on the same basis, because they offer ongoing utility. But throwing huge sums of money at crates just to get the camos and flags inside them, which are temporary, is not for me. I might have chucked some doubloons at FXP for Musashi, but I managed to grind her FXP out the usual way. And so on.

I've actually spent a significant amount of money on this game, so I don't qualify as a FTP player.  I am, however, a value oriented player.  Anything I purchase has to have some perceived value, whether it be ships, camo, doubloons, or premium time.  Doubloons is a placeholder for the items, like a gift card that has cash value only at the store for which it was purchased.  I'm like you because I don't mind spending some cash for the enjoyment of the game, especially given the amount of time I spend doing it.  The only problem I have is when WG keeps ramping up the availability of crates but lowers the ability to get the higher end items.  They put more "fluff" in them and because the fluff has virtual value, they claim you are getting more than your money's worth. 

Most of us can resist the temptation to gamble with the purchase.  Some have a harder time.  The temptation and the rush that comes with the chance of the big prize pushes some people to spend more than they can afford.  That is a classic case of what happens in gambling.  Anytime you purchase something that has a random chance of getting something, it is gambling.  If it was explicitly stated what you were getting, then it is a purchase.  To get around the gambling aspect WG would have to state the exact items they are including in the crates.  As long as that value was equal to or greater than the value of the purchase amount, then it is a purchase.  They could then provide a random item as a prize.  That would be more palatable to most.  The other thing would be to accurately state the statistical possibilities for each item.

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27 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Not getting what you want IS LOSING.

Well technically you didn't want to be alive, or born.  But here we all are... :P

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