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Taco_De_Moist

CVs OP or CVs Weak?

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I am going to start off by saying, I am not a CV captain, I have a handful of games in CV's and just messed around with them a bit in co-op after the rework hit.  I'm not good at the new mechanic, I did manage to put up 140k in the Saipan in a co-op game and dont ask me why I bought that ship long ago when I never play CVs, I dont know. I took the opportunity to see how long it took me to kill a lone full health BB.  Even being able to repeatedly strike, not losing many planes, it took me so long to kill that bastard.  Obviously as people get better this will improve, but it sure wasnt easy for me. 

With that said, I am seeing people complain about CVs being OP and people complaining they are totally weak.  From my experience, mostly playing BB's and Cruisers.  The carriers in the games I've played have been practical non-factors.  I maybe have been successfully struck by a carrier 2-3 times and the damage was laughable.  I mostly just see squadrons, just getting ripped apart by AA.  I've player T5-10 and its the same story regardless of tier.

I don't understand how people are coming to such vastly different conclusions on the effectiveness of CV's.  I get DD's and cruisers that rely on stealth are having issues with spotting and that should be addressed, but CV's in and of themselves from my experience so far are not in any way shape or form OP in their ability to deal damage.  I don't get how Im seeing BB mains in particular complain about being focused into oblivion by a CV, how, in a game full of people is this happening to you.   I have to believe its confirmation bias in their brain, its the cv rework patch, a CV killed me, therefore only the CV was attacking me, when in reality surface ships did 80% of the damage to them and the CV finished them off.

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4 minutes ago, Taco_De_Moist said:

I am going to start off by saying, I am not a CV captain, I have a handful of games in CV's and just messed around with them a bit in co-op after the rework hit.  I'm not good at the new mechanic, I did manage to put up 140k in the Saipan in a co-op game and dont ask me why I bought that ship long ago when I never play CVs, I dont know. I took the opportunity to see how long it took me to kill a lone full health BB.  Even being able to repeatedly strike, not losing many planes, it took me so long to kill that bastard.  Obviously as people get better this will improve, but it sure wasnt easy for me. 

With that said, I am seeing people complain about CVs being OP and people complaining they are totally gimped.  From my experience, mostly playing BB's and Cruisers.  The carriers in the games I've played have been practical non-factors.  I maybe have been successfully struck by a carrier 2-3 times and the damage was laughable.  I mostly just see squadrons, just getting ripped apart by AA.  I've player T5-10 and its the same story regardless of tier.

I don't understand how people are coming to such vastly different conclusions on the effectiveness of CV's.  I get DD's and cruisers that rely on stealth are having issues with spotting and that should be addressed, but CV's in and of themselves from my experience so far are not in any way shape or form OP in their ability to deal damage.  I don't get how Im seeing BB mains in particular complain about being focused into oblivion by a CV, how, in a game full of people is this happening to you.   I have to believe its confirmation bias in their brain, its the cv rework patch, a CV killed me, therefore only the CV was attacking me, when in reality surface ships did 80% of the damage to them and the CV finished them off.

probably cause some players have played against the haku and some played against all other useless cv

the haku is op because it doesnt need to worry about the stupid aa at all with his torps

and even tho you pretty much get all your plane shredded on a single db run at least the haku has ap bomb that do massive damage so its worth the lost o guess

all other cv are unplayable till they patch this mess 

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There are two big issues that are tied to the spotting problems that you mention.

First off, it's the fact that attack runs take much longer now; that in turn leads to ships being spotted more and more. 

Secondly, it's simply the number of CVs per battle. 2 with a rarer 3 per battle means there is a very big chance you will be spotted even longer. 

 

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2 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

There are two big issues that are tied to the spotting problems that you mention.

First off, it's the fact that attack runs take much longer now; that in turn leads to ships being spotted more and more. 

Secondly, it's simply the number of CVs per battle. 2 with a rarer 3 per battle means there is a very big chance you will be spotted even longer. 

 

I completely agree with you on the spotting issues.  I am more referring to not understanding when people are arguing that CV's are just killing ships with impunity.  I have yet to see this happen.

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14 minutes ago, Taco_De_Moist said:

I completely agree with you on the spotting issues.  I am more referring to not understanding when people are arguing that CV's are just killing ships with impunity.  I have yet to see this happen.

It definitely doesn't happen anymore.  Under the rework, CVs have to send multiple attacks at a single target over multiple minutes if they want to kill them.  This is a huge contrast to the old CVs where a single attack was often enough to kill or cripple any target of their choosing.  People keep saying that CVs can now spot them at any time, but seem to forget that it was far worse with the old CVs and being able to have multiple squadrons in the are at once.

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3 minutes ago, Deno said:

It definitely doesn't happen anymore.  Under the rework, CVs have to send multiple attacks at a single target over multiple minutes if they want to kill them.  This is a huge contrast to the old CVs where a single attack was often enough to kill or cripple any target of their choosing.  People keep saying that CVs can now spot them at any time, but seem to forget that it was far worse with the old CVs and being able to have multiple squadrons in the are at once.

Such as 3 squadrons of AP Bombers completely annihilating a battleship with 1 drop. 

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13 minutes ago, DevilFreak_ said:

Such as 3 squadrons of AP Bombers completely annihilating a battleship with 1 drop. 

Playing a German BB when a Graf Zep or high tier USN CV was on the other team was never enjoyable.  Or being in any ship when a Hak or Midway crossdrops or point-blank drops a torp wall right on top of you.

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No AA = T4/6CV will easily farm

full AA spec = T4/6CV cannot touch

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Just now, MrDeaf said:

No AA = T4/6CV will easily farm

full AA spec = T4/6CV cannot touch

T4 CV really only do anything against T3/T4 and some T5 ships.  T6 is pretty strong against anything same-tier or lower, but a lot of the T8 ships turn in to no-fly zones for the T6 CVs.  Even some T7 ships are absolutely devastating to the T6 CVs with the new AA changes.

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Under tier 8 the CV's are weak. Very weak. 

Damage output is very low and hit chances are extremely low due to both the effectiveness of AA (even on non-AA ships) and the ease with which most ships will dodge your torps and bombs (rockets are nearly useless). 

At Tier 8 the CV's get more than 2 torps per salvo and bigger squadrons (more bombs) and the hit rate increases significantly. The AA is still strong vs planes but given its unlimited planes its literally a matter of choosing who to kamikaze against in exchange for inflicting damage. So I would say tier 8 is perhaps the most balanced damage:time:yourplanesvstheirship tier. 

Tier 10 the advantage goes to the CV as the damage output is outright out of control. Only a few ships have super strong AA while the rest have retained tier 8 levels of AA. For example Yamato has the equivalent of a tier 8 cruiser AA long range and a tier 6 cruiser short range output...even when fully specced for AA (yeah, tested it lol). Montana has tier 9 AA equivalent long range and tier 8 equivalent short range. Neptune once again seriously outperforms Minotaur in AA ...its long range flak is absolutely bananas. 

 

Overall for a first iteration its not horrible...but its bad. WG did not listen to testers pointing out a ton of the issues we are now seeing. It was obviously rushed out for whatever reason. 

 

As it stands now, they do need to increase the max range of air dropped torpedoes.... IJN should have 4km range at tier 4, 6km at tier 6, 8 km at tier 8 and 10km at tier 10. Yes, thats damn long range and out of AA range but the hit chances drop significantly .. the carrier player basically becomes a tier 4 destroyer that can fly and is detected out to ~6km (with max stealth build). Ships getting hit by these torps will only know its air dropped when they see the small amount of them (compared to DD torp salvos) and the much lower damage than DD torps balances out the range thing. 

USN torp planes should retain their short range BUT be given some kind of damage reduction modifier from AA otherwise they are nearly useless. Historically USN planes were insanely tougher than the highly combustible IJN aircraft. 

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