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groundace

Any tips for keeping aviation alive?

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Been playing the new cv's and the aa mechanics in particular seems really confusing. Sometimes i'll take 2-4k salvos from seemingly nothing or just the continuous aa, flak on occasion will suddenly spawn in the dozens in all possible directions forcing you to lose a significant part of the squadron. and at least to me it feels completely random whether or not you'll have the whole squadron insta-gibbed the second you hit the deck for an attack run. like i understand i have to avoid flak and most of the time I do so successfully but is it intentional to randomly be forced into a flak cloud? or is these something i'm missing for improving the squadrons staying power? Thanks in advance for any tips. I've looked into ptu footage but nothing anyone has said has worked for me, and I'd like to know if this is just how cv's are? or if i'm yet to get there.

 

Also if a WG... somebody, happens to see this. I thinks there is great potential in the concept for the new cv's. There's probs alot of hate or heavy criticism flying your way but remember alot of us do it out of tough love because we either like the game or see it's potential and do not wish for it to fail, please remember this so we both make it though this change ;)

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Remember...

WG wanted carriers to be be 'more like regular ships...'

You need to WASD, 'just like regular ships...'

Except there isn't as much expectation of being to avoid damage as there is in a ship using good WASD, (thank you chip damage...)

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The AA is effectively still random. The Flak poofs will appear in random locations and at times, they explode right on your squadron, doing damage to all aircraft. 

My advice is to try and no linger over a ship long. Run in, do you attack, then bob-n-weave your way out, often outside of their AA bubble. THEN turn around and go back in. The close range AA will tick away your plane HP so much that all it will take is a single flak poof and your entire squadron dies to the AOE. It's the snow ball effect some people have pointed out.

If you do not linger after every pass, you should last long enough.

 

Also do not attack ships in clusters. If you HAVE to attack a formation, just press F and get your rocket planes out; damage the AA first.

That's what I tried anyway and it works to a degree. At least in lower tiers. In higher tiers? I dunno' it's a mess. A fully AA specced US BB gets only 4 kills but a gearing may get 20. No joke. It's random as hell. 

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7 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Remember...

WG wanted carriers to be be 'more like regular ships...'

You need to WASD, 'just like regular ships...'

Except there isn't as much expectation of being to avoid damage as there is in a ship using good WASD, (thank you chip damage...)

If you're referring to active avoidance and changing heading every so often I already do this. but still can't seem to avoid it as much as people I saw on the pt videos (edit changed to pt, saw some news of another games ptu and got struck in my head)

Edited by groundace

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3 minutes ago, groundace said:

If you're referring to active avoidance and changing heading every so often I already do this. but still can't seem to avoid it as much as people I saw on the ptu videos.

What tier CV against what tier ships?  There is a huge discrepancy in AA effectiveness between tier right now, which is causing T8vT10 and T6vT8 to be extremely difficult to deal with.  This is very prominent for T6 CVs when matched against T8 cruisers and battleships whose AA suites are able to put entire walls of flak in the path of oncoming aircraft.

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2 minutes ago, groundace said:

If you're referring to active avoidance and changing heading every so often I already do this. but still can't seem to avoid it as much as people I saw on the ptu videos.

Bit of slight annoyance and sarcasm in my answer, but yyeah.

For me I think it has to do with something from the old RTS.

I stank at manual attacks and strafing because my twitch/micro skills stank.

Dodging AA is just a different thing that needs twitch/micro to do well, so natually I suck at it.

Getting better, but combined with the way carrier are next to worthless in CO-op, (where I basically played them, due to the above mentioned lack of ability,) I'm not in a terribly good mood right now.

'Give it a chance!' as some are saying...

...as I said; not really in the mood right now to do so.

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1 minute ago, Deno said:

What tier CV against what tier ships?  There is a huge discrepancy in AA effectiveness between tier right now, which is causing T8vT10 and T6vT8 to be extremely difficult to deal with.  This is very prominent for T6 CVs when matched against T8 cruisers and battleships whose AA suites are able to put entire walls of flak in the path of oncoming aircraft.

Mostly been playing enterprise and saipan

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13 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Bit of slight annoyance and sarcasm in my answer, but yyeah.

For me I think it has to do with something from the old RTS.

I stank at manual attacks and strafing because my twitch/micro skills stank.

Dodging AA is just a different thing that needs twitch/micro to do well, so natually I suck at it.

Getting better, but combined with the way carrier are next to worthless in CO-op, (where I basically played them, due to the above mentioned lack of ability,) I'm not in a terribly good mood right now.

'Give it a chance!' as some are saying...

...as I said; not really in the mood right now to do so.

No harm done ;)

I wasn't good at the old system either and yea practicing in co-op is proving difficult due to the annihilated matchmaker in part of enemy cv's being replaced by bb's giving the bots a effective team hp advantage. and barely anyone playing surface ships atm

I'll just keep going at it, not much else to do in this frigid cold anyway lol (like -20, seriously.)

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27 minutes ago, groundace said:

No harm done ;)

I wasn't good at the old system either and yea practicing in co-op is proving difficult due to the annihilated matchmaker in part of enemy cv's being replaced by bb's giving the bots a effective team hp advantage. and barely anyone playing surface ships atm

I'll just keep going at it, not much else to do in this frigid cold anyway lol (like -20, seriously.)

Know when to pull out your planes.  If you've taken a good chunk of damage,  just F out.  Even the Langley has a 111 second respawn timer per plane,  its better to abort your attack run and send out a different,  undamaged squadron.

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26 minutes ago, groundace said:

I'll just keep going at it, not much else to do in this frigid cold anyway lol (like -20, seriously.)

Bad enough where I'm at here in Oklahoma; just walking out to my truck after work made it seem like I would freeze my hands, (no gloves.)

Can't begin to imagine what it's like where it's REALLY cold. (Heard Montana or Minnesota it's like -50s wind chill, and Chicago it's like -20s...)

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4 minutes ago, Palladia said:

Know when to pull out your planes.  If you've taken a good chunk of damage,  just F out.  Even the Langley has a 111 second respawn timer per plane,  its better to abort your attack run and send out a different,  undamaged squadron.

Learning that the hard way. Tier differences aren't helping things.

Slowly beat a Myogi to death with my Hosho last game before I quit for the night, but couldn't even get near an Orion.

Only reason the Langley with me and I won is both bots chased me and left the Lang alone, they kept leaving the caps, and we killed everying else to win, barely, by time/points.

Edited by Estimated_Prophet

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1 minute ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Learning that the hard way. Tier differences aren't helping things.

Slowly beat a Myogi to death with my Hosho last game before I quit for the night, but couldn't even get near an Orion.

Only reason the Langley with me and I won is both bots chased me and left the Lang alone, they kept leaving the caps, and we killed everying else to win, barely, by time/points.

There's definitely a bit of imbalance with the AA effectiveness against lower tiered planes right now.  Playing T6 CVs against T8 AA is pretty painful.  It's doable, but you lose a lot of planes thanks to the big jump in how many long/medium range flak bursts those ships have over lower tiers.  Even some T7 ships are insanely strong with AA right now.  Atlanta gets 7 long/3 medium for the flak bursts when upgraded for it, which half the time results in the flak landing right on top of or in front of the attacking planes.

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1 hour ago, The_Painted_Target said:

Flak damage is not avoidable. Just hope you're not unlucky like this.
 

 

Certain ships have obscenely high numbers on the flak bursts right now, which is causing a bit of imbalance with the new AA mechanics.  Because the flak fires in the path of oncoming planes, ships that can put 12+ bursts of flak in the air at once end up landing a wall of flak in front of the planes that is virtually unavoidable.  For the majority of ships which only put 8 max after upgrades, the clouds are a bit more spaced which gives you enough room to get an attack through without losing the entire squadron.

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Just an off the cuff question here as I haven't played the rework yet......if CVs have unlimited plane reserves, wouldn't it be faster to launch a new squadron and let it die in to AA rather than spend the time to return it to the CV and relaunch?

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get CV capt skills that higher plane HP, armor and equip the HP+ module that should help a bit and WSAD flak clouds (note the damage area for the flak stays up for like a second after the puff of smoke is gone)

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5 minutes ago, Ace_04 said:

Just an off the cuff question here as I haven't played the rework yet......if CVs have unlimited plane reserves, wouldn't it be faster to launch a new squadron and let it die in to AA rather than spend the time to return it to the CV and relaunch?

At any point with a squadron in the air, you can hit "F" to order it to return.  Once they are ordered back, you lose control of that squadron, they 'auto-pilot' back to base, and you can immediately launch another squadron.

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Simple steps to avoid major damage (but not always):

- do minor turn adjustments when setting up a pre-attack vector as the AA will try to predict where you are based on your current actions.  So a short turn move using WASD will fool the AA into aiming more left or right of your planes.

- speed up and slow down - slowing down keeps the planes from sloshing into a flak wall

- (torpedo planes only with 3rd slot torpedo attack time module) start the attack from further out - low flak puffs seem to do a lot less damage than the flight level ones.  Also starting further out allows you to start an attack before the long range flak can become a problem.

Please note some of these tactics require certain ship modules like +X seconds added to [attack plane type] attack time

Other notes:

If I get lucky I can wear down an AA ship's AA with rockets before I bring in slower and harder to maneuver bombers and torpedoes.

Some folks are flying planes at a group of ships in hopes they use their AA consumables and just hit F when the group does use their consumables.  What that does is allow the attack craft to return to the ship unharmed and tricks the other player into using a consumable.  I think this "trick" on the part of the CV is a waste of time.  You not only take a squad out of rotation for a few moments you also now need to fly all the way back to the ships you were trolling so instead of causing damage during that time the CV player is not being productive in a team environment.  Worse, if it becomes something viewed as wide spread abuse then WG will just simply adjust the cool down on AA consumables to be closer to the average flight time of planes going into combat which means no CV will win.

Of course to counter the tactic, a mild form of team work is required - it won't be perfect, but only one ship should fire off their AA consumable from a group.

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21 minutes ago, Ace_04 said:

Just an off the cuff question here as I haven't played the rework yet......if CVs have unlimited plane reserves, wouldn't it be faster to launch a new squadron and let it die in to AA rather than spend the time to return it to the CV and relaunch?

You definitely don't want to just sacrifice your squadrons and let your planes get killed.  Any plane that is lost begins a cooldown timer before a new plane is added to the flight deck.  If you lose too many planes too quickly, this can very easily result in only have a small handful of planes ready to launch.

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25 minutes ago, desmo_2 said:

At any point with a squadron in the air, you can hit "F" to order it to return.  Once they are ordered back, you lose control of that squadron, they 'auto-pilot' back to base, and you can immediately launch another squadron.

 

9 minutes ago, Deno said:

You definitely don't want to just sacrifice your squadrons and let your planes get killed.  Any plane that is lost begins a cooldown timer before a new plane is added to the flight deck.  If you lose too many planes too quickly, this can very easily result in only have a small handful of planes ready to launch.

Good to know.  Thanks for the info, gents.

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I took SE over the plane armor for a 3 point skill. It gives +15 HP per tier. So each plane gets +60 HP in T4, +90 HP in T6, +120 HP in T8 and +150 HP in T10. That helps with the continuous AA damage. The plane armor skill is -10% continuous damage, so a 100 HP continuous damage is 90 HP. I think CVs are going to need at least 13 pt Cmdrs to be able to take both skills at first blush, barring AA tweaks that are sure to come.

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