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Battleship_Elisabeth

The real rework issue

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Okay, let's set aside the nitty gritty of nerfs to AA, CV removal in certain tiers, etc. for just a second - what is really going on here? I would argue that the change can essentially be broken down into two primary complaints:

1) Carriers have gone from alpha strikers to attrition/support specialists. This feels bad to a lot of carrier players. Moreover, AA is unpredictable, poorly understood in a lot of corners, and seems to vary in impact greatly depending on carrier tier relating to opponents in a given match.

2) As a result of the spotting, destroyers no longer feel comfortable (and it is darned well true) capping because they get perma-spotted, rocket-attacked, and invariably bulldozed. They can't seem to play as the knife-fighting vanguard right now. This is symptomatic of the broader sensation that there is too much carrier impact "in general" on a given match (too many planes, too much dodging, near-constant attacks, etc). It's most obvious, however, with destroyers playing like destroyers.

The thing is, WoWs isn't just a few months old or something - there are a lot of people who have been playing since launch day (or earlier), enjoyed the original meta, invested a lot of money into the product, and now feel like they've had the rug pulled out from under them.

Even more importantly - the CV change has rewritten the underlying realities of the game without reasonably accomodating all comers. What do I mean? Go back to destroyer play, for example - destroyers don't want to die 30 seconds in, so they don't cap. Cruisers could step in, but they're no less giant, floating citadels than they were two days ago... so they're not going to just rush in to fill that void. And half the battleships in WoWs have garbage secondaries, and were designed to fight mid-to-(very) long range... and none of those designs were altered, either.

So the CV change hasn't just reworked carriers - it's undermined crucial elements of necessary play (cap zones, get points, win) without addressing - in a satisfactory manner, much less at all - all the associated hurricanes that one butterfly's wing can unleash.

Yes, you can argue that new metas will arise. But they may do so are a horrendous cost of players who liked the old game - and these people were, concurrently, the ones with the most capital invested in the product. Moreover, there doesn't seem to be any looming solutions rushing up on the horizon. Destroyers are now spotted a lot... so... do they just cap and accept almost certain death? Refuse to cap and have it default to whichever ships - still poorly equipped for the job - are feeling reckless? And why is that acceptable?

I feel very strongly that the unintended consequences of this titanic shift were not examined in even a cursory manner before 8.0 was rammed through... and this is why people are losing it. A change like this cannot occur in a void, and yet rushing the swine to market acted as if that was precisely what would happen: that 8.0 would have narrow impacts, or the unintended consequences didn't matter. The entire game we have understood for the past 2+ years has been flipped on its side, had its innards split open with a lightsaber, and had some feckless force-sensitive youth shoved in. And nobody saw fit to think about what might happen?

Edited by Battleship_AndreaDoria
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2 minutes ago, Battleship_AndreaDoria said:

The thing is, WoWs isn't just a few months old or something - there are a lot of people who have been playing since launch day (or earlier), enjoyed the original meta, invested a lot of money into the product, and now feel like they've had the rug pulled out feom under them.

This is pretty much where I'm at.  Been playing since a week before the official launch in 2015.  

Overall I think you hit it right on the money - the biggest issue is with the spotting/detection changes and huge of an impact that has on all classes of the game and the overall flow of the meta.  DDs cant counter it and cruisers can only try and counter it by putting their ship at mortal risk.  I would happily trade and give CVs more alpha strike power if they would cut their detection range.  

P.S.  AA seems about right to me.  Half the crowd hates it and half loves it so that means it is probably about right. I do think they should make a longer range bubble to surface ships to try and ward off attacks better...at the expense of the shorter range power. This would also help planes get a feel for the AA strength.  Right now its COOL>BRICK WALL OF AA> MELT.  With a longer range bubble it would be COOL>WARM>HOT>MELT.  The planes might choose to break off the attack and everybody lives to fight a little longer.

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2 hours ago, T_O_dubl_D said:

This is pretty much where I'm at.  Been playing since a week before the official launch in 2015.  

Overall I think you hit it right on the money - the biggest issue is with the spotting/detection changes and huge of an impact that has on all classes of the game and the overall flow of the meta.  DDs cant counter it and cruisers can only try and counter it by putting their ship at mortal risk.  I would happily trade and give CVs more alpha strike power if they would cut their detection range.  

P.S.  AA seems about right to me.  Half the crowd hates it and half loves it so that means it is probably about right. I do think they should make a longer range bubble to surface ships to try and ward off attacks better...at the expense of the shorter range power. This would also help planes get a feel for the AA strength.  Right now its COOL>BRICK WALL OF AA> MELT.  With a longer range bubble it would be COOL>WARM>HOT>MELT.  The planes might choose to break off the attack and everybody lives to fight a little longer.

I think WG's "big spenders" - myself included - largely do so because of a collection fixation; not wanting to 'miss' much. But if you rewrite the laws of the game 2 years in, it's liable to lead to a lot of ill will.

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If you're saying the CV rework has suddenly left me feeling confused, intimidated, and disconnected from my previous gameplay experiences, then I would agree.

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The endless swarm of rockets ruins every DD aside from the gearing (def AA, can sometimes wiggle out of rockets), the groz (crazy AA, heal), and the to a lesser extent, the khaba (Tanky & Healy, some AA). Every other DD is basically farmed at will. 

And not only can they not eat a constant barrage of rockets, they’re also perma-spotted from this. 

On top of this, if a DD catches a CV, those with guns are quite useless due to their totally reasonable five second fires and general presence of deck armor. They have a good chance of losing that because of the shear health difference that allows the cv time to rocket the DD out of existence. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, _Starbuck said:

If you're saying the CV rework has suddenly left me feeling confused, intimidated, and disconnected from my previous gameplay experiences, then I would agree.

I just don't get a strong impression that they thought this whole thing through.

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What you're seeing is just what an oppressive and terrible impact CVs fundamentally have on this game. The rework is better than what we had before but there's only so much you can do when the class still has squadrons that can fly everywhere on the map very quickly. Two (or more) of them in every game produces a terrible game. The best CV rework would've been to delete CVs but since that wasn't going to happen there was no way around the situation we have right now. Just take a break or play Ranked until the hype has died off and CV populations go down again. 

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31 minutes ago, Rocketpacman said:

... Just take a break or play Ranked until the hype has died off and CV populations go down again. 

When Ranked is the sanctuary all hope is truly lost... I refuse, I will take my beating like an obedient free to play player.

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3 hours ago, donlokiman said:

When Ranked is the sanctuary all hope is truly lost... I refuse, I will take my beating like an obedient free to play player.

I just won't play. No point in tolerating insanity without purpose.

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Honestly I enjoy the fact that my poor Akatsuki can be spotted and ceaselessly rocketed every twenty seconds by planes which crossed the map in less time than it took to fire their payload in the first place. I feel like I’m contributing so much as my guns throw up a single easily dodged puff of flak and do 54 damage every few seconds to planes with individual HP pools which exceed 1500.

I also enjoy my full AA spec Atlanta focused properly, which can’t shoot down a single remaining torpedo bomber to save a friendly Battleship from flooding to death right next to me. Then in the very next strike, I shoot down six in two seconds.

 

Its completely random, nonsensical, and hilarious to be a part of. My only regret is that I spent money on this game relatively recently, just to participate in a live test of an unfinished mechanic.

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1 hour ago, Big_Spud said:

Honestly I enjoy the fact that my poor Akatsuki can be spotted and ceaselessly rocketed every twenty seconds by planes which crossed the map in less time than it took to fire their payload in the first place. I feel like I’m contributing so much as my guns throw up a single easily dodged puff of flak and do 54 damage every few seconds to planes with individual HP pools which exceed 1500.

I also enjoy my full AA spec Atlanta focused properly, which can’t shoot down a single remaining torpedo bomber to save a friendly Battleship from flooding to death right next to me. Then in the very next strike, I shoot down six in two seconds.

 

Its completely random, nonsensical, and hilarious to be a part of. My only regret is that I spent money on this game relatively recently, just to participate in a live test of an unfinished mechanic.

But, hey, it will presumably make the console crowd happy! Except... probably not.

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