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Knumb_Knutz

What the %^&* is up with AP Shells?

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6 kms away from a full broadside Emerald and I hit him with seven out of eight 14" shells and get 7 overpens????

Seems that most of my AP Shell hits to both cruisers and battleships result in only "Overpens"

What is going on?

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Emerald is notoriously flimsy and has thinner armor than other nation's T5 cruisers. It's far more likely to get overpens on an Emerald than on other T5 cruisers. Especially at close range. Say, about 6km.

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If I face an emerald I use HE.

I know that sounds counter intuitive, but I get more citadels with HE.

Even if he is angled.

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Well, Emerald is a small ship and has no armor,l to speak of, which can be a "buff" vs BBs as they overpen a lot. 

 

But since the patch that changed BB AP vs DDs um getting more overpens and normal pens for zero or overpens damage. 

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Same happens if you shot with AP from the Imp Niko at a low tier french cruiser. 

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This happens a lot against RN cruisers. I have had a number of incidents like this against Edinburgh. A number of times I have put full salvos between its smoke stacks just to pass over the citidel for 6ish overpens.

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56 minutes ago, Knumb_Knutz said:

6 kms away from a full broadside Emerald and I hit him with seven out of eight 14" shells and get 7 overpens????

Seems that most of my AP Shell hits to both cruisers and battleships result in only "Overpens"

What is going on?

Dont think anyone has really explained it yet... its not like world of tanks where there is pen and not pen. In ships, AP shells have fuses. When they penetrate a certain amount of armor, the fuse activates, and so many milliseconds later the shell explodes

 

In the case of your emerald, the shell was through the other side of the ship before the fuse burnt out and the shell exploded, or, the emerald might not have had enough armor to even arm the fuse to begin with

 

The shell mechanics in this game are pretty crazy. Just know that there is such thing as too much penetration

Edited by _1204_
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2 hours ago, Xlap said:

But since the patch that changed BB AP vs DDs um getting more overpens and normal pens for zero or overpens damage. 

Got to say I have felt this has happened as well since the change. Makes me wonder if there is some kind of unforeseen changes that occurred with the intended change that are impacting BB AP overall. Sort of like what happened what a year or so ago when a change to some mechanic in the game lead to BB's getting citadeld left and right. Is a similar snafu going on now because of the change to buff DD's vs AP from BB's?

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3 hours ago, Knumb_Knutz said:

6 kms away from a full broadside Emerald and I hit him with seven out of eight 14" shells and get 7 overpens????

Seems that most of my AP Shell hits to both cruisers and battleships result in only "Overpens"

What is going on?

Emerald is made of tinfoil, so yeah, you're going to get overpens a lot.

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3 hours ago, Prothall said:

If I face an emerald I use HE.

I know that sounds counter intuitive, but I get more citadels with HE.

Even if he is angled.

Agree .. RN cruiser armor is like CV armor, very thin and easily penetrated. (MOST CV armor, that is.)

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u must be in the PEF, i hit a dallas with 2 volleys at  4km   and got like 12 hits for 8k damage :) full on side

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3 hours ago, Knumb_Knutz said:

6 kms away from a full broadside Emerald and I hit him with seven out of eight 14" shells and get 7 overpens????

Seems that most of my AP Shell hits to both cruisers and battleships result in only "Overpens"

What is going on?

Try it against an Atlanta, you will get same result unless you hit a magazine. I hit one last night at 5km with 8 15-inch AP rounds and they all overpenned. Atlanta has no armor to speak of either.

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I use to get a lot of Cit's on a Emerald using AP. Seems to have gone down quite a bit and less damage. I think it change on the last update when I noticed my Black Swan went HE instead of AP.

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I wasn't able to score cits on the Emerald last time I saw one, I think WGs stupid AP change broke something.

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This is Emerald's Citadel.

VHVPc0Q.jpg

That yellow portion is 76mm of Citadel Armor Belt in the center.  On the sides with the blue portion, that is 57mm of Citadel Armor Belt.

 

Simply put OP, if you were in a Battleship and only got Overpens, none of your shots hit the Citadel and instead hit the 10mm, 13mm plating in other parts of the ship.

 

A Battleship like Fuso would get Overpens if it didn't get the MASSIVE CITADEL.  Emerald is a Cruiser that one or two things happen when people hit her:

1.  It gets extremely lucky and only gets Overpens.

2.  It gets Citadeled / Multi-Citadeled and eats massive damage;  Emerald gets Deleted.

Shot placement is the only thing that matters against Emerald.  But the Juicy Center of Emerald is big, and you simply didn't hit it.

 

And AP is fine.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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2 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Except we have been experiencing shells over penetrating citadels...

WAD? Or Bug?

More like people thinking they had a better shot than they really had.  If there's a common theme I've found with many, is they overestimate their abilities.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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1 minute ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

More like people thinking they had a better shot than they really had.  If there's a common theme I've found with many, is they overestimate their abilities.

Mehta. Give test it yourself. Load up Raptor Rescue...let one of the bot cruisers get within 4km, and hit his citadel with a New Mexico and see what happens. You can't miss at that range, and you will see what we have been experiencing. 

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10 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Mehta. Give test it yourself. Load up Raptor Rescue...let one of the bot cruisers get within 4km, and hit his citadel with a New Mexico and see what happens. You can't miss at that range, and you will see what we have been experiencing. 

I'll tell you what's going on.

Furutaka Citadel

6OdKL7Y.jpg

Aoba Citadel

xGERfQG.jpg

Myoko Citadel

jKDoYi8.jpg

 

Your salvos aren't hitting those citadels.  In close range, unless you get the hit right on the citadel, your BB AP will go right out the other side of the target.  If you had a bit of distance, your shells would arc some and get you some Citadels and Penetrations.

 

There is also the fact that AP has a Fusing Time.  So you get your BB AP with 558mm of AP Penetration at 10km, and you don't hit the Citadel of a poorly armored Cruiser, guess what you're getting?

OVERPENS.

 

Every week these boards are full of Conspiracy Theorists like something has happened with the game to explain their poor performance.  I will point out again that the last Great Conspiracy was a lot of people whining that "WG Nurfed muh Missouri accuracy!"  So many of those clowns, even some notable CCs, were on that bandwagon.  The simple truth was nothing was done to Missouri.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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1 hour ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

I'll tell you what's going on.

Furutaka Citadel

6OdKL7Y.jpg

Aoba Citadel

xGERfQG.jpg

Myoko Citadel

jKDoYi8.jpg

 

Your salvos aren't hitting those citadels.  In close range, unless you get the hit right on the citadel, your BB AP will go right out the other side of the target.  If you had a bit of distance, your shells would arc some and get you some Citadels and Penetrations.

 

There is also the fact that AP has a Fusing Time.  So you get your BB AP with 558mm of AP Penetration at 10km, and you don't hit the Citadel of a poorly armored Cruiser, guess what you're getting?

OVERPENS.

 

Every week these boards are full of Conspiracy Theorists like something has happened with the game to explain their poor performance.  I will point out again that the last Great Conspiracy was a lot of people whining that "WG Nurfed muh Missouri accuracy!"  So many of those clowns, even some notable CCs, were on that bandwagon.  The simple truth was nothing was done to Missouri.

Strawman post.

I'm saying I'm hitting the citadel, and the shell is over penetrating the citadel. I know where the citadels are.

I'm not really annoyed by it...as cruisers need a buff to survivability.

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I guess something like this is why replays are valuable. Nobody can exactly and clearly remember where every single shell of their salvos are exactly landing, so a precise snapshot of the moment that shells are hitting the target could be helpful.

Then there's also the RNGesus, if you ask me. Even when it looks like there's a perfect shot, RNGesus can give a gentle tap to the shells to make them veer off a tiny degree, most likely unnoticeable to human eyes, and the shells end up doing funky things instead. One time, I had my Musashi shells "bounce" off of Fiji, of all ships, and of course, they probably hit somewhere like a turret face at some super-obscure angle and just bounced off harmlessly. Normally those shells would have ate the Fiji alive... but not that time. Thanks RNGesus, lol.

My guess is that something similar happened here, and the shells just didn't reach the citadel, and instead went out the other side of the ship harmlessly. 

My 2 doubloons.

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51 minutes ago, Blorgh2017 said:

I guess something like this is why replays are valuable. Nobody can exactly and clearly remember where every single shell of their salvos are exactly landing, so a precise snapshot of the moment that shells are hitting the target could be helpful.

Then there's also the RNGesus, if you ask me. Even when it looks like there's a perfect shot, RNGesus can give a gentle tap to the shells to make them veer off a tiny degree, most likely unnoticeable to human eyes, and the shells end up doing funky things instead. One time, I had my Musashi shells "bounce" off of Fiji, of all ships, and of course, they probably hit somewhere like a turret face at some super-obscure angle and just bounced off harmlessly. Normally those shells would have ate the Fiji alive... but not that time. Thanks RNGesus, lol.

My guess is that something similar happened here, and the shells just didn't reach the citadel, and instead went out the other side of the ship harmlessly. 

My 2 doubloons.

Its possible, especially when you are close enough that hitting ANYTHING other than citadel will cause an over pen...

I am coming round to the opinion that BB HE is criminally underused.

Edited by Daniel_Allan_Clark

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Weren't there tests done a couple of years ago that proved that citadels could be overpenned? I read one from 2016 recently.

I'll have to jump into a training room to test it eventually myself.

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