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tcbaker777

A proposal for HMS Agincourt

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HMS Agincourt, a dreadnought type battleship that started its service in the Brazilian Navy under the name of Rio de Janeiro, later sold to the Ottoman Empire where its name was changed to Sultan Osman-ı Evvel  and finally seized by the United Kingdom where its name was changed again to the Agincourt, i think this ship would be an interesting premium to have in the game, and ive heard others mention her on the forums at times, although her amount of guns may be a problem for what tier she would be

Armament:

7 × twin 12 in (305 mm) guns

20 × single 6 in (152 mm) guns

10 × single 3 in (76 mm) guns

3 × 21 in (533 mm) torpedo tubes

Armour:

Belt: 9 in (229 mm)

Deck: 1–2.5 in (25–64 mm)

Barbettes: 2–9 in (51–229 mm)

Turrets: 8–12 in (203–305 mm)

Conning tower: 12 in (305 mm)

Bulkheads: 2.5–6 in (64–152 mm)

Speed:22 knots (41 km/h; 25 mph)

with 14 12" guns she'd have a powerful broadside at any of the low tiers that it would more than likely be placed, but ive heard that T5 might be a good placement, im not sure because i dont know that much about the ship, this is my first pitch for a premium ship, so it might not be that good, but i just wanted to see what others thought about Agincourt being a premium in the game at some point

hms-agincourt-1915-battleship.pngHMS_Agincourt_1915.jpg

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I'm considering her for one of my large proposal threads, but that'll be a while yet.

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She's a good looking ship, love me some dreadnaughts with lots of guns. Not to mention Pan-American line needs moar botes.

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24 minutes ago, tcbaker777 said:

started its service in the Brazilian Navy

That's a very generous way of putting it, considering Brazil sold her to the Ottomons whilst still under construction.:Smile_teethhappy:

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It's a T4. Yeah, it's got a LOT of guns. They are basically the same as the Bellerphoron/Dreadnought guns, which are only ok at T3. It's got middling speed at T4, Myogi armor, likely a hyuge turning radius, wonky firing angles, and is made of citadel. It's battleship Okhotnik, trading everything else for guns, giggles and alpha strike.

 

That being said, it's a natural premium play for WG, even though the per unit profits on a T4 are going to be fairly low, it's a easy to do a twin (triple???) bill release like they did with Boise/Nueve de Julio. Even outside of RN and Pan American fans, the sheer derp factor of a 14 gun broadside will attract plenty of casual fans. Bundle it with a 10 point bi-national commander and  I think you could sell plenty of them for 20-25 bucks.

 

Matt

 

 

 

 

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Well she could be a trainer for pan american, pan europe, and GB captains with that history.

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50 minutes ago, mobryan said:

It's a T4. Yeah, it's got a LOT of guns. 

Agreed. Compared to the Wyoming, the sensible balance midpoint of T4 BBs, Agincourt has 2 more guns and a little more speed but worse survivability and probably AA. We need more unique and eccentric low tier ships.

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1 hour ago, mobryan said:

Bundle it with a 10 point bi-national commander and  I think you could sell plenty of them for 20-25 bucks.

 

 

Who would be British, with a Brazilian waxed mustache and a fez on his head :)

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3 hours ago, MG1962 said:

Who would be British, with a Brazilian waxed mustache and a fez on his head :)

Fezzes Are Cool GIF - DoctorWho Fez MattSmith GIFs

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7 hours ago, Bilious said:

 Agreed. Compared to the Wyoming, the sensible balance midpoint of T4 BBs, Agincourt has 2 more guns and a little more speed but worse survivability and probably AA. We need more unique and eccentric low tier ships.

Agincourt has barely any AA to speak of, at most two 3" guns which is one of the reasons why she doesn't fit at a tier any higher than IV. She'd be a free meal for any CV.

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7 hours ago, MG1962 said:

Who would be British, with a Brazilian waxed mustache and a fez on his head :)

Some mental images cannot be un-seen. Someone pass the brain bleach, please... :Smile_veryhappy:

On the serious side:

I've proposed Thomas Cochrane as a unique Pan American commander in the past, and I think he'd be a great fit for a release like this. Yes, he belongs to an earlier era in naval combat, but he was a real life legendary commander in the Royal Navy, the founding father of both the Chilean and Brazilian navies, and instrumental in securing the independence of Peru.

Rather than giving him combat bonus's like the other special commanders, though, I'd like to see him get economic bonus's. Special skills "Take the Money and Run" increases silver earning by 100% after any battle which earns a heroic achievement. "Naval Traditions" increases XP earnings by 50% for any standard achievement.  "Man without a Country" allows him to command any Pan American or Royal Navy ship without penalty.

They would be a nice change from the combat bonus's of other commanders, very useful as the Pan American tech tree is developed, and are historically inspired.

 

Matt

 

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11 hours ago, giovybez said:

She's a good looking ship, love me some dreadnaughts with lots of guns. Not to mention Pan-American line needs moar botes.

No.

Brazil sold her on before she was finished.

There were many Dreadnoughts that actually DID serve in South American navies, all of which deserve a place in the game, but Agincourt is British. Hands off.

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7 hours ago, zFireWyvern said:

Agincourt has barely any AA to speak of, at most two 3" guns which is one of the reasons why she doesn't fit at a tier any higher than IV. She'd be a free meal for any CV.

They could give it a fictional upgrade a la the KM ships.  I wouldn't, but they could.

Tier 4, RN AP, slow reload or bad dispersion for the 14 guns.

One question would be who is going to like a 14 gun HE shower at tiers 3-5?

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28 minutes ago, DrHolmes52 said:

They could give it a fictional upgrade a la the KM ships.  I wouldn't, but they could.

Tier 4, RN AP, slow reload or bad dispersion for the 14 guns.

One question would be who is going to like a 14 gun HE shower at tiers 3-5?

No thankyou, Premium ships should be represented as they were at some point in their existence if they were real. I'm not a huge fan of ahistorical refits anyway, especially when they're not really needed i.e. Iron Duke.

Also the easy solution to the 14 gun HE salvo is simple, give her useable AP and reduce the potency of the HE, I don't think many people would mind.

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Just now, zFireWyvern said:

No thankyou, Premium ships should be represented as they were at some point in their existence if they were real. I'm not a huge fan of ahistorical refits anyway, especially when they're not really needed i.e. Iron Duke.

Also the easy solution to the 14 gun HE salvo is simple, give her useable AP and reduce the potency of the HE, I don't think many people would mind.

Like I said, I wouldn't do it.

On the second point.  Make it normal? You crazy fool.

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17 hours ago, tcbaker777 said:

HMS Agincourt, a dreadnought type battleship that started its service in the Brazilian Navy under the name of Rio de Janeiro, later sold to the Ottoman Empire where its name was changed to Sultan Osman-ı Evvel  and finally seized by the United Kingdom where its name was changed again to the Agincourt, i think this ship would be an interesting premium to have in the game, and ive heard others mention her on the forums at times, although her amount of guns may be a problem for what tier she would be

Armament:

7 × twin 12 in (305 mm) guns

20 × single 6 in (152 mm) guns

10 × single 3 in (76 mm) guns

3 × 21 in (533 mm) torpedo tubes

Armour:

Belt: 9 in (229 mm)

Deck: 1–2.5 in (25–64 mm)

Barbettes: 2–9 in (51–229 mm)

Turrets: 8–12 in (203–305 mm)

Conning tower: 12 in (305 mm)

Bulkheads: 2.5–6 in (64–152 mm)

Speed:22 knots (41 km/h; 25 mph)

with 14 12" guns she'd have a powerful broadside at any of the low tiers that it would more than likely be placed, but ive heard that T5 might be a good placement, im not sure because i dont know that much about the ship, this is my first pitch for a premium ship, so it might not be that good, but i just wanted to see what others thought about Agincourt being a premium in the game at some point

hms-agincourt-1915-battleship.pngHMS_Agincourt_1915.jpg

That would be a lot of barrels! 

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1 hour ago, iKami said:

That would be a lot of barrels! 

It'd also be extremely difficult to balance for the game. So much would have to be toned down that I feel the ship would end up being very ineffective.

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7 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

No.

Brazil sold her on before she was finished.

There were many Dreadnoughts that actually DID serve in South American navies, all of which deserve a place in the game, but Agincourt is British. Hands off.

Or Turkish.  She was essentially complete and Turkey had sent a crew to bring her to Turkey but they were prevented from taking possession of her.  The ship actually had to be modified somewhat for British service so a version of her, as she was actually built, would be interesting. 

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19 minutes ago, Th3KrimzonD3mon said:

It'd also be extremely difficult to balance for the game. So much would have to be toned down that I feel the ship would end up being very ineffective.

You're putting too much weight on the amount of rifles, it's only two more than Wyoming. It's really not going to be that much of a gamechanger in that regard. The tradeoffs have already been discussed above. Agincourt is a big ship, over 100ft longer than Wyoming and given the amount of turrets, her citadel is going to travel along a large part of the ship. Couple that with generally weaker armour and potentially awkward firing angles and you have a ship that is capable of being balanced for the game with factors to offset her raw main battery firepower.

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1 minute ago, zFireWyvern said:

You're putting too much weight on the amount of rifles, it's only two more than Wyoming. It's really not going to be that much of a gamechanger in that regard. The tradeoffs have already been discussed above. Agincourt is a big ship, over 100ft longer than Wyoming and given the amount of turrets, her citadel is going to travel along a large part of the ship. Couple that with generally weaker armour and potentially awkward firing angles and you have a ship that is capable of being balanced for the game with factors to offset her raw main battery firepower.

Yeah, but "Lots of rifles" can't be balanced by "Can be cit'd and wrecked by destroyers", she simply won't live long enough to be a factor.

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I'm pretty 'meh' on Agincourt, to be honest - especially if what we got was essentially just an HE spammer that couldn't turn, and had her painfully-thin-even-for-WWI-standards armor.

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Well, look at the closest equivalent. Lyon. Also built prior to  WW1. 16 guns 4 X  340mm. T7. The sigma will have to be nerfed to 1.5 vs 2.0 of what the QE class would hold. It's doable. The only question is whether she goes on the UK,  Pan-America or pan-Asia line. The Lyon before nerf was capable of dev striking dd's with AP shells. I wouldn't want to be a DD when this ship trains the turrets on her.

Edited by Bill_Halsey

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25 minutes ago, Th3KrimzonD3mon said:

Yeah, but "Lots of rifles" can't be balanced by "Can be cit'd and wrecked by destroyers", she simply won't live long enough to be a factor.

At tier IV with the upper end of 40k HP is going to take an awful lot of destroyer citadels to whittle her down.

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48 minutes ago, BB3_Oregon_Steel said:

Or Turkish.  She was essentially complete and Turkey had sent a crew to bring her to Turkey but they were prevented from taking possession of her.  The ship actually had to be modified somewhat for British service so a version of her, as she was actually built, would be interesting. 

Turkey needs Goeben and Breslau first.

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