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JohnPJones

Solution for US sealift failures?

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How much work would be necessary just to get mothballed ships running and interiors opened up to be converted to improvised transports?

obviously they’re not going to carry massive numbers or amounts of anything but I don’t see many other options for quickly increasing sealift capability. Say if WWIII popped off next week 

 

not a real they should do this thread  just a topic to get some discussion going.

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They would just confiscate all the cruise liners and other freighters

Edited by silverdahc

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22 minutes ago, silverdahc said:

They would just confiscate all the cruise liners and other freighters

There is currently only 1 US registered cruise ship.

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Yeah but I think the mentality  Is you have a sure foothold somewhere then do a major airlift

 Any mobilization from the sea would take years 

 

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24 minutes ago, silverdahc said:

Yeah but I think the mentality  Is you have a sure foothold somewhere then do a major airlift

 Any mobilization from the sea would take years 

 

A major airlift is very small compared to a small sealift...

 

you cant transport that level of equipment, food, ammo, or troops at all via airlift.

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That's why they had supercargo container ships 

 And if we're talking World War 3 only place I could see having a pain getting to would be mainland China, And if we're talking that it's still gonna be years as the whole world mobilized If ever

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57 minutes ago, silverdahc said:

They would just confiscate all the cruise liners and other freighters

Which is almost non-existent and I believe already included in the current assessment of US sealift failures since there’s an executive order that already give the president that authority.

 

not a very big fleet for sealift in the event of a major war

https://www.bts.gov/content/number-and-size-us-flag-merchant-fleet-and-its-share-world-fleet

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Yeah but that's not the major issue the major issue is manpower and training them and that's gonna take a while

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2 minutes ago, silverdahc said:

That's why they had supercargo container ships 

 And if we're talking World War 3 only place I could see having a pain getting to would be mainland China, And if we're talking that it's still gonna be years as the whole world mobilized If ever

...wow...you really haven’t actually looked at the issue have you?

just because we have bases in Europe and allies in Europe doesn’t mean we don’t need sealift capability to Europe.

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3 minutes ago, silverdahc said:

Yeah but that's not the major issue the major issue is manpower and training them and that's gonna take a while

That is a major issue. A lack of ships is just as big of an issue as a lack of manpower.

not to mention basic training for civilian sailors wouldn’t require much training...

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Yeah but i guess you're assuming the US is all by itself  It doesn't have all its allies merchant marine to call upon for help also,  if it's by itself it won't matter anyways,  And if it's by its self it won't have the politics to push it either 

 

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Truly just can't afford to have everything ready all the time And any major war would take years  No matter what  Not having enough transports at the beginning wont be our biggest problem if there's a major World War

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2 minutes ago, silverdahc said:

Yeah but i guess you're assuming the US is all by itself  It doesn't have all its allies merchant marine to call upon for help also,  if it's by itself it won't matter anyways,  And if it's by its self it won't have the politics to push it either 

 

You understand that most of the world’s merchants aren’t owned or flagged in the US or Europe right?

 

most or owned and or flagged out tiny islands with low safety requirements....it seems like you came into a topic with little of any knowledge of the subject and are now just trying desperately to find something to cling to.

sure assuming no enemy subs or ships are hunting merchants and MSC ships then the US and European merchant vessel and MSC in combination with airlift could do it, but that’s unlikely so...

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5 minutes ago, silverdahc said:

Truly just can't afford to have everything ready all the time And any major war would take years  No matter what  Not having enough transports at the beginning wont be our biggest problem if there's a major World War

We managed to have a large merchant fleet and MSC from WWII all the way up to the end of the Cold War, so ya we actually can...

1960-1995 we had over 500 ships...now we have less than 200...per my previous link 

Edited by JohnPJones

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We'd probably steal a bunch of things. If half the pacific fleet takes two prizes (seems reasonable given the volume of shipping out there), we get a good number of ships, and prize crews could be flown out quickly.

If we're willing to step on some toes, it could be done quickly. Otherwise, as others have said, it would take a while.

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21 minutes ago, pewpewpew42 said:

We'd probably steal a bunch of things. If half the pacific fleet takes two prizes (seems reasonable given the volume of shipping out there), we get a good number of ships, and prize crews could be flown out quickly.

If we're willing to step on some toes, it could be done quickly. Otherwise, as others have said, it would take a while.

I don’t see the US stepping on toes to get ships. At least not early on.

if China were on the other side then ya we could probably get a lot of prizes for sure.

too bad prize money is no longer a thing

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Bringing things out of mothballs now is a fool's errand. Those hulks are better off scrapped. The primary solution is to first completely reinvigorate ship building in the US. You don't do that and you'll never get the hull numbers you need.

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2 hours ago, TornadoADV said:

Bringing things out of mothballs now is a fool's errand. Those hulks are better off scrapped. The primary solution is to first completely reinvigorate ship building in the US. You don't do that and you'll never get the hull numbers you need.

Give the yards a bunch of rust buckets to get up and running again sounds like a good start 😝

 

get them doing that then get them started on new hulls

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5 hours ago, JohnPJones said:

How much work would be necessary just to get mothballed ships running and interiors opened up to be converted to improvised transports?

obviously they’re not going to carry massive numbers or amounts of anything but I don’t see many other options for quickly increasing sealift capability. Say if WWIII popped off next week 

 

not a real they should do this thread  just a topic to get some discussion going.

Last time they tried it, as an experiment (SS American Victory, back in 1986), it wasn't worth the time and effort.

They'd be better off hiring or otherwise impressing into service a bunch of US flagged freighters, likely Jones Act ships, if Military Sealift Command didn't have enough ships in service to move troops as fast as they can be mobilized.

 

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1 hour ago, SgtBeltfed said:

Last time they tried it, as an experiment (SS American Victory, back in 1986), it wasn't worth the time and effort.

They'd be better off hiring or otherwise impressing into service a bunch of US flagged freighters, likely Jones Act ships, if Military Sealift Command didn't have enough ships in service to move troops as fast as they can be mobilized.

 

We already discussed that, and the US has a significant lack of ships under our flag.

factoring in losses not nearly enough.

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35 minutes ago, JohnPJones said:

We already discussed that, and the US has a significant lack of ships under our flag.

factoring in losses not nearly enough.

 

There's not many ships left in the reserve fleet, down to under 100, and looking at the list, maybe half are roll on/roll off ships, which can be done in in short order, they're maintained, and looking at their entries, are active somewhat regularly.

The US has been recycling the mothball fleet since about 1987, right after SS American Victory was reactivated, for 2.5 mil or so and they found out it was a pointless endeavor. The old ships were built for bulk cargo, the modern military moves cargo by container and roll-on/roll-off.

As far as building large numbers of new ships quickly, it's not gonna happen, the infrastructure isn't there any more, and neither are the people. 

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7 hours ago, JohnPJones said:

I don’t see the US stepping on toes to get ships. At least not early on.

if China were on the other side then ya we could probably get a lot of prizes for sure.

too bad prize money is no longer a thing

It’s not like the Marshal Islands can stop the US from claiming all the ships registered there.  Simple corruption let’s ships flag themselves on these island, but that leaves these ship owners with no recourse if a major nation decides to take control of them during war.

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Year by year the US merchant marine continues to shrink, and should be in the Endangered Species list.    Ideally we should rev up our remaining shipyards and start building more hulls, but even our remaining shipyards are facing decaying infrastructure, loss of technical schools training people.    There truly is a need for a long term strategic and comprehensive plan to revitalize the US shipping industry or everything will just disappear.    Once these shipbuilding skills are gone, they're gone.  But even if we build ships, who are we going to sell it to?  The global shipping industry, both the shipping lines and the ship makers are in a major funk, with demand down, orders are down, with excess capacity all over the place, with companies talking about mega mergers and such just to survive.  

 

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10 hours ago, Royeaux said:

It’s not like the Marshal Islands can stop the US from claiming all the ships registered there.  Simple corruption let’s ships flag themselves on these island, but that leaves these ship owners with no recourse if a major nation decides to take control of them during war.

Ya the Marshall Islands ant stop us, but then we’re not really any different than Russia or China bullying people just because we can and it’s beneficial to us

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