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Greetings:

Here is a question I have not seen mentioned in the forums:  Is it a player's skill that makes a good game or can a mediocre player with a 19 point captain deliver similar good results ?  Can a zero point captain controlled by a skilled Unicom player run a successful ship ? I heard of cases where someone secured a new ship on it maiden match and forgot to spec out the Captain skills. Did it make a difference ?  Where is the Human Factor ?  Does coffee or ice tea make a difference (like in spelling) ?

NJRoc

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Edited by njroc
typo
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One of my best battles was in my Arkansas B with a 0 skill Captain. I am nowhere near Unicom. A better test of player skill trumping anything else would be how well they do in stock ships with no camo, signals or upgrades and a 0 point Captain.

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If the player goes to the wrong side of the map, no amount of captain skill points will help him win. If a player shows broadside to a battleship, no amount of captain skill points will help him survive. If a player drives around the headland when there was a destroyer spotted nearby recently, no amount of captain skill points will help him not get sunk. If a player drives his ship down the middle at match start no amount of captain skill points will help him not get focus fired.

A high skill point commander is just a tool. If you don't know how to use a tool right you won't get good results. A high skill point captain helps give an advantage, but nowhere near as much as being able to make good choices and generally be a skilled player. I'd put my money on a 60%'er with a 0 pt captain over a 45%'er with a 19 pt captain any day of the week.

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Player skill is always going to be better. A 19pts commander is useless if the player doesnt know how to use them. As Lert pointed above, the commander is just a tool, it wont help if you dont know how to use it.

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Someone recently took all the stock T6 ships and used basic captains on them and still achieved a pretty high winrate.

 

I think it was @Kongo_Pride (who had a long thread about it).

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Also, ive found a nice mug of hot tea beneficial.

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Having a 0 vs 19 point captain is a massive difference, but a 45% player with a 19 pointer in a T10 will lose to a 65% player with a 0 pointer in a T8.

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One of the nuances of this game is I think that player skill outweighs op ships and captain skills. Sure that all helps but if ima potato I can wreck the most amazing ship in very quick order. I try not to potato but it's in ma genes . 😉

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39 minutes ago, njroc said:

Does coffee or ice tea make a difference (like in spelling) ?

You say po-tah-to, I say po-tay-to... :Smile_trollface:

It all comes down to the player, the ship, the team and the scenario. One of my highest-damage games in the Nicholas was just recently with a zero point captain, stock ship and no camo to dust off the snowflake, but I'm a more experienced DD captain now than when I was actually grinding her.

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5 minutes ago, Kapitan_Wuff said:

Captain skills are not that impactful. A potato is a potato regardless. 

Depends on the skill; a DD player without LS is always at a distinct disadvantage to one without LS.

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2 minutes ago, _RC1138 said:

Depends on the skill; a DD player without LS is always at a distinct disadvantage to one without LS.

I laugh so hard when I see a dd without LS drift out of his smoke because he can't stop. you know he's like...

See the source image

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1 hour ago, njroc said:

Here is a question I have not seen mentioned in the forums:  Is it a player's skill that makes a good game or can a mediocre player with a 19 point captain deliver similar good results ?  Can a zero point captain controlled by a skilled Unicom player run a successful ship ? I heard of cases where someone secured a new ship on it maiden match and forgot to spec out the Captain skills. Did it make a difference ?  Where is the Human Factor ?  Does coffee or ice tea make a difference (like in spelling) ?

I had the same question a few months ago in the forums.  I called it the "Stock-win challenge"  

@Kongo_Pride accepted the challenge and responded with a deep dive study of his results. worth a read... 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, _RC1138 said:

Depends on the skill; a DD player without LS is always at a distinct disadvantage to one without LS.

Not having LS (or other important skills) is a disadvantage, but that is all, its not a deal breaker. It doesn't make unicums potatoes and having LS doesn't make potatoes anything other than potatoes. A good players with a 0 point captain is still probably gonna beat a bad captain with a 19pt captain.

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Just now, Abides said:

I laugh so hard when I see a dd without LS drift out of his smoke because he can't stop. you know he's like...

See the source image

To me, LS is the most straight overpowered Captain Skills in the game as it essentially 100% neutralizes *2* major mechanics in the game: Loss of steering and loss of propulsion. Even with a Penalty, SOME propulsion is NOT the same effect as *0*, nor is SOME rudder the same as *0* rudder. And there is a reason nearly EVERY build on DD's requires LS. There's plenty of variety in Cruiser builds, and even a few different ways for BB's, but DD's are ALWAYS going to put 2 points into LS.

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1 minute ago, Abides said:

a dd without LS drift out

not all my dds have it... and in that low probability (for that dd) moment, when I cant stop... I do ponder my choices... AS I AM MASHING MY KEYBOARD. lol

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Just now, Kapitan_Wuff said:

A good players with a 0 point captain is still probably gonna beat a bad captain with a 19pt captain.

In a knife fight when 1 DD has LS and the other does not? No. Especially if even 1 friendly ship is aiming in their direction.

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Just now, _RC1138 said:

In a knife fight when 1 DD has LS and the other does not? No. Especially if even 1 friendly ship is aiming in their direction.

So you are saying a good player would get themselves into bad player situations ... knife fighting a DD with any advantage is a dumb move.

Doesn't sound like something a good player would be doing.

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8 minutes ago, Kapitan_Wuff said:

So you are saying a good player would get themselves into bad player situations ... knife fighting a DD with any advantage is a dumb move.

There's no big red sign on an enemy target that it has LS; you don't know that till you hit it's engines and it barely slows down/rudder and still turns. Nor is there, without MMM, a ready way to tell the skill of an opponent DD till you get INTO the knife fight. And knife fights are SUPER important to winning games as the sooner you eliminate the enemy DD's, the better. So you will get into them and LS is more or less required for them; without it you run the risk of eating torps or losing the DPS race because they end up in a T-Crossing (the one friggen place in this game that matters).

There's only a few DD's in the whole game I feel comfortable not having LS in; Daring (it's pretty hardy in the engine department), Khab, since she takes hits rarely ANYWAY thanks to the rocket, and her engines are also kinda hardy. Maybe the Tashk too?

Edited by _RC1138
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1 hour ago, Kebobstuzov said:

Having a 0 vs 19 point captain is a massive difference, but a 45% player with a 19 pointer in a T10 will lose to a 65% player with a 0 pointer in a T8.

Not sure what this saying.   Like to see this tested.  If so where?

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Just now, Nachoo31 said:

So explain how I got a 50% win rate in T10 ships then?

By not running a 0 point commander? I'm not sure I understand your question.

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7 minutes ago, _RC1138 said:

And knife fights are SUPER important to winning games as the sooner you eliminate the enemy DD's, the better. 

That’s Busch League stuff. Unless you have a distinct advantage in firepower or health, knife fights are often stupid to get into early match because you usually end up crippled health-wise no matter what. Even if you win your chances of getting torpedoed or finished off by the other DD’s support means you wind up getting killed as well.

Knife fighting early in the match is only really viable in the lower tiers where battleships and cruisers are not as effective against DDs. 

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13 minutes ago, SavageTactical said:

up crippled health-wise no matter what.

Not in the Kidd or Daring, which is why I love those two so much. Especially with the new nerf to BB guns against DD's, it means that you can take a truly dumb amount of damage in the Kidd and Daring (in fact, for the Daring, my only initial problem with it was that because of it's slow speed, BB's were landing good AP dumps on it at range and taking huge chunks of health, but that is not true at all anymore). And knife fighting in the Khab is also viable especially since many of the enemy's shots will shatter on your belt. Yes you have to get in RANGE to do it, but ambushes can and do happen. If you learn how to consistently knife fight, you can exude a ridiculous amount of influence on a game's outcome.

Edited by _RC1138

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41 minutes ago, _RC1138 said:

In a knife fight when 1 DD has LS and the other does not? No. Especially if even 1 friendly ship is aiming in their direction.

>DD knife fights in 2019

 

 

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I use my carrier captain in my Kidd to farm for elite EXP. He's effectively a 5-pointer despite being a 19-pointer due to most of the skills not being effective (only PT and CE works to my advantage; torpedo acceleration decreases torpedo range to 7.3km and TAE could only do so much due to having only one tube, rest is history. Of course, no place for LS).

Then again, gunnery, positioning, awareness, etc - the things you do, the captain skils do not do for you. They only amplify your own ability.

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