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Crispy007

Zao needs some love

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Average player here, I do enjoy the Zao a lot, but it is a CA, should it's HP pool be lower then the new US  Cl's? Not too mention the BC's that MM pairs it against. I'm not suggesting a lot of increase, just make it on par with the Worchester.

Any thought's?

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Nope, doesn't need a buff imo. It's stealthy, can disengage well if you cease firing, has amazingly accurate guns with an excellent fire chance. The AP rounds are good. You can kite well with it and don't need island cover like Worcester does.

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This is not a ship that needs buffs.  It's pretty darn good already.  Excellent stealth, good guns at range, super accurate, solid AP, hellfire HE, trollish armor that lets her get away with certain things, and of course, option to mount 12km torpedoes.  The price Zao pays for all that is lower HP levels than what's normal.

 

She's a very dangerous skirmisher in open water.  One of the most dangerous things is that she can be doing things to deal big damage and she won't even be seen, i.e. Stealth Torping 12km torpedoes.  Then opening up later on the poor bas**rd that had to use his DCP to stop the Floods if he got hit by them.  An undetected Zao is no less dangerous than the one spotted spamming shells at 17km.  A Zao at even 15km spamming shells, makes you wonder if it didn't send 2 full waves of torpedoes your way before it started shooting at you...

 

The funny thing with this Cruiser, is I play super aggressively to a fault.  It gets me into big trouble at times.  Yet even with a part-time user of Zao like me, I manage an absurdly, abnormally high Survival % with her compared to my other Tier X Cruisers.  I can only imagine what she's like to the guys that user her a lot more.

 

Right now, I would not touch any of the Tier X Cruisers for nerfs or buffs (except Stalingrad, f**k that thing).  They're pretty good among each other.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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3 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Right now, I would not touch any of the Tier X Cruisers for nerfs or buffs.  They're pretty good among each other.

Not even Stalingrad and Moskva?

But I agree. Zao is in a very good place as she is.

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Just give zao its HP back from its nerf from ages ago. It is fine as is but that small HP buff wouldn't make it too strong.

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2 minutes ago, WuYixiang said:

Not even Stalingrad and Moskva?

But I agree. Zao is in a very good place as she is.

Moskva is fine.

Stalingrad, I'm not fine with.

 

So I stand corrected. :Smile_veryhappy:

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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Just now, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Moskva's is fine.

Stalingrad, I'm not fine with.

 

So I stand corrected. :Smile_veryhappy:

 

Fair enough. I would still like their radar range slightly nerfed. It feels weird to be able to see DDs from space with no LoS from islands.

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To help you out OP, I highly suggest having a Full Stealth Build.  Concealment Expert + Concealment System Mod 1 Upgrade in Slot 6 + Any camo that improves your detection range.  Stealth Build Zao goes down to 9.7km detection range and I **WISH** I could have something like that on a number of my other Cruisers.

 

Use range as a tool to safely engage and disengage from.  There are times to spam shells, there times to use those Ninja Disappearing Tactics Zao does so well.  Manage your engagement ranges and cease fire when needed, and you disappear after some time.

 

Don't drop your torps while detected and someone is staring right at you.  Especially if you were going towards them and trying to do a 180 to drop torps.  That is one of the largest sins you can do as an IJN Cruiser.  Do this to a BB and you will have a very bad day and get a prompt return to port.  Even a number of the Cruisers like Hindenburg, Des Memes, Moskva, Henri IV, Minotaur will make you pay if you do something like that and they're expecting it.

 

I found Zao to be a very comfortable Cruiser to use in open water.  I do better in Des Moines, but my gameplay with DM is a lot more stressful.  I play DM up into and around the caps, around islands fighting with other Cruisers and Destroyers in close proximity, and trying not to get deleted by a BB.  Very stressful.  Zao?  Just cruise around and fight, go dark sometimes, drop torps, shoot again, etc.  She's not too fussy, just play her to her strengths.

 

The most fun thing Zao fights as, is when you got people trying to chase after you! :Smile_trollface:

 

 

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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2 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

This is not a ship that needs buffs.  It's pretty darn good already.  Excellent stealth, good guns at range, super accurate, solid AP, hellfire HE, trollish armor that lets her get away with certain things, and of course, option to mount 12km torpedoes.  The price Zao pays for all that is lower HP levels than what's normal.

 

Right now, I would not touch any of the Tier X Cruisers for nerfs or buffs.  They're pretty good among each other.

While I agree with your last statement, Zao's HP change is really old. 0.5.2 is when it was applied, looking back at the change logs. Back then there were only 3 T10 cruisers, Zao, Des Moines, and Hindenburg, if I'm recalling correctly.

And as someone who's recently acquired Zao, I do have to say that sometimes the lower HP just doesn't feel right, even with SE Zao doesn't break 45k HP(heck, with the current SE, Zao barely gets the HP she lost back, still missing the mark by about 600 HP). Not saying that she needs a buff or this buff, but I wouldn't be opposed to her getting back the HP she lost long ago, nor do I think at this point in the games development that it would make much of a difference.

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bahahahahaha, good one there mate.

hehe, buff Zao... that's gonna keep me chuckling for a while

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3 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

To help you out OP, I highly suggest having a Full Stealth Build.  Concealment Expert + Concealment System Mod 1 Upgrade in Slot 6 + Any camo that improves your detection range.  Stealth Build Zao goes down to 9.7km detection range and I **WISH** I could have something like that on a number of my other Cruisers.

Use range as a tool to safely engage and disengage from.  There are times to spam shells, there times to use those Ninja Disappearing Tactics Zao does so well.  Manage your engagement ranges and cease fire when needed, and you disappear after some time.

1

In case OP is like me and hates full concealment, I have an alternate build that I enjoy using because I'm not a patient person:  the stupid maneuverability build.  With Propulsion Mod 2, Steering Mod 3, and her Unique Upgrade, Zao becomes extremely potent because she can stop, start, and turn much faster than most people know how to lead.

Either way, Zao is very flexible and a lot of fun to use in her current iteration, and buffing her HP just doesn't feel necessary.

shot-19.01.17_22.11.57-0593.jpg

Edited by WuYixiang
Spelling </3

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On 1/17/2019 at 5:31 PM, GhostSwordsman said:

While I agree with your last statement, Zao's HP change is really old. 0.5.2 is when it was applied, looking back at the change logs. Back then there were only 3 T10 cruisers, Zao, Des Moines, and Hindenburg, if I'm recalling correctly.

And as someone who's recently acquired Zao, I do have to say that sometimes the lower HP just doesn't feel right, even with SE Zao doesn't break 45k HP(heck, with the current SE, Zao barely gets the HP she lost back, still missing the mark by about 600 HP). Not saying that she needs a buff or this buff, but I wouldn't be opposed to her getting back the HP she lost long ago, nor do I think at this point in the games development that it would make much of a difference.

Zao in the old HP days also had Stealth Fire.  IIRC, she was the Queen of Stealth Fire considering the prowess of her guns at range.

 

Maybe there was a case for giving Zao her old HP again with all the new ship lines, competition in High Tier.  But with her getting access to 12km torpedoes that give her even more attack options now, I would vehemently disagree for more Zao buffs.  Those 12km torpedoes are no joke.  They got a severely long CD but you'd be surprised who you can pop.  An undetected Zao with her 12km torps ready is essentially a DD, only unlike Shimakaze, if some poor ba*[edited] gets hit by those torps, Zao can open up at range with her deadly accurate and hard hitting guns with powerful HE shells and high fire chance. 

 

She just has too many offensive options to justify getting her old HP back, IMO.

 

DD players were not too happy Zao got those torps.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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12 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

...

She just has too many offensive options to justify getting her old HP back, IMO.

...

Yep. Besides, with good angling on a retreat, most AP attacks bounce off her troll turtleback anyway, artificially increasing her "HP" (really, her potential damage).

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5 hours ago, WuYixiang said:

Yep. Besides, with good angling on a retreat, most AP attacks bounce off her troll turtleback anyway, artificially increasing her "HP" (really, her potential damage).

I remember watching a Zao long ago, that came around an island at about 10km from two of our BBs.  The BBs made a terrible mistake in that they slowed down and tried to reverse.  Zao was charging.  The very last thing you should do as a BB with a Torpedo-capable Cruiser rushing you at that range is kill your speed.  Should have turned away.  Anyways... She baited them with an angled hull and the BBs fired their guns at her 30mm hull plates, which not even 406mm AP can simply Overmatch.  When those BBs fired their salvos and did little damage, I knew they were f--ked.  Zao sailed between them and dropped BOTH LAUNCHERS on BOTH SIDES and killed both of our BBs to her left and right.

:Smile_veryhappy:

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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I don't see why the Zao shouldn't get her old HP back....but other than that she's a very strong cruiser and not really in need of buffs.  

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The only buff to Zao would be giving her a bit more HP. Other than that, she's really strong.

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Good cruiser, buff arn't needed, CL & CA are naval ship designation by gun not displacement of ship. I find my Henri is at odds with Zao for CB when choosing a flanking cruiser for the team with Zao coming out as more favorable.

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Zao's hps are fine. With the recent upgrade to the range of her torpedoes, she is now a complete package. Her armor is enough to offset her lower hp pool. I have tanked plenty of BBs firing at me from range just for their shells to bounce off the hull. The ship is not designed to go toe to toe with a Moskva, Des Moines or Hindenberg. They will delete you like that. Play to her strengths, not theirs. She works fantastically from range with her fire chance and highly accurate guns. You stop firing, go dark and then change positions launching your torpedoes during the transition.

I will say this though, I think her AP damage has been changed slightly. I used to nail broadside BBs like Montana with 20k+ salvos. Haven't seen that recently. Only 12k or so now.

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1 hour ago, Iron_Myke said:

Zao's hps are fine. With the recent upgrade to the range of her torpedoes, she is now a complete package. Her armor is enough to offset her lower hp pool. I have tanked plenty of BBs firing at me from range just for their shells to bounce off the hull. The ship is not designed to go toe to toe with a Moskva, Des Moines or Hindenberg. They will delete you like that. Play to her strengths, not theirs. She works fantastically from range with her fire chance and highly accurate guns. You stop firing, go dark and then change positions launching your torpedoes during the transition.

I will say this though, I think her AP damage has been changed slightly. I used to nail broadside BBs like Montana with 20k+ salvos. Haven't seen that recently. Only 12k or so now.

From what range were you getting those damage numbers?  I do ok in zao, just struggle to consistently put up big damage

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