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Imtoe

Dear Wargaming, about this Alpha/Bravo thing..

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In Reference to Clan Battles and Match Making,

While in the Struggle from Gale to Storm league, my clan faced off against Typhoon League clans. I know this is because of the Alpha/Bravo rating system, where Typhoon clans had Bravo(presumption of Bravo)ratings in Gale league.
This prevented us from advancement.

There is nothing in the system that prevents the same players who made a clan Typhoon league rating possible in Alpha from playing in the Bravo rating or vice versa, thus preventing the advancement of lower league clans(because random chance loves us all).

There also seems to be excessive numbers of Storm league teams in Gale league matches, probably for the same reasons.

There needs to be a match making change to prioritize "like rated" teams, who do not have a rating TWO or even near two leagues higher than the rating of the team played against.
At the very least, something clearly needs to be done to prevent such imbalanced and lop sided match making.

shot-19.01.17_14.19.02-0639.jpg

Edited by Imtoe

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wow. this is like a calculus version of the Fix MM thread. *Mind Blown*

Edited by skillztowin
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Each person has a rating behind the scenes in Clan Battles, so if you take players from a hurricane team and drop them into a brand new clan they will very quickly start getting matches at a much higher level then they are ranked.

 

From my experience in Hurricane where both o7s alpha and bravo rating are at we do occasionally see gale and storm teams but its generally after waiting in queue for over 6 minutes. The last couple of weeks our queue time has been averaging about 5.5 minutes. Given how few teams there are in hurricane and that we cant play teams we recently faced its hard for mm to find matches at that level.

 

We also dont like getting storm or gale teams if its any consolation, we wait in queue for 6 minutes or more to play a 15 minute game and get 8 points on a victory or 35 points on a loss. Its really hard to change the rating when you get 8 points a win.

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 In league up matches, expect to face teams in the league above you. If you can't handle that, you don't deserve to advance. Even outside of league matches, you should expect to see players above your league.

 

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8 minutes ago, 1nv4d3rZ1m said:

 

 

We also dont like getting storm or gale teams if its any consolation, we wait in queue for 6 minutes or more to play a 15 minute game and get 8 points on a victory or 35 points on a loss. Its really hard to change the rating when you get 8 points a win.

That is a crap sandwich for everyone.

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we have never waited 6 minutes, 2 minutes would be a long time in our case.

SURE, of course a reasonable expectation of higher league teams in or near struggle matches could be expected.. captain obvious

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Those teams you’ve faced, from the records you’ve shown, are all storm and typhoon. None of them are Hurricane.

 

I’d wager that this late in the season the gale teams have generally just quit playing. They got their rewards, discovered they were stuck low on the totem pole, and stopped.

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ok, got typhoon and hurricane confused. either way, there is a definite difference in Gale and Typhoon.

 

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As mentioned above, these situations are also unpleasant for the higher-rated team. WG really needs to just rubber band the lower team team rating or seed higher based on past season performance.

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Honestly, MOST high rated clans second teams are probably near their top teams. That being said, in the struggle matches you should expect people from the next 2 leagues, it is kinda crap for gale to storm but after you get into storm its not a big deal.

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49 minutes ago, 1nv4d3rZ1m said:

Each person has a rating behind the scenes in Clan Battles, so if you take players from a hurricane team and drop them into a brand new clan they will very quickly start getting matches at a much higher level then they are ranked.

 

From my experience in Hurricane where both o7s alpha and bravo rating are at we do occasionally see gale and storm teams but its generally after waiting in queue for over 6 minutes. The last couple of weeks our queue time has been averaging about 5.5 minutes. Given how few teams there are in hurricane and that we cant play teams we recently faced its hard for mm to find matches at that level.

 

We also dont like getting storm or gale teams if its any consolation, we wait in queue for 6 minutes or more to play a 15 minute game and get 8 points on a victory or 35 points on a loss. Its really hard to change the rating when you get 8 points a win.

True but if you run into a few teams with a few of those ringers before they have brought the team up enough to get the higher level matches it just sucks. I have come to the conclusion that during CB that the cool down before being able to join a new clan should be a lot longer.

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1 minute ago, Kebobstuzov said:

Honestly, MOST high rated clans second teams are probably near their top teams.

I agree they are now, but it takes 5 or so weeks each season to get to that point. Better IMO to cut to the chase and seed both ratings for hurricane clans in Storm at the start of the season so Squall and Gale teams don't have to suffer every time.

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7 minutes ago, Kebobstuzov said:

Honestly, MOST high rated clans second teams are probably near their top teams. That being said, in the struggle matches you should expect people from the next 2 leagues, it is kinda crap for gale to storm but after you get into storm its not a big deal.

1 league above is reasonable and expectable. 2 leagues above is equal to green belts against black belts or something like that and lop sided at best.

 

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1 hour ago, Imtoe said:

1 league above is reasonable and expectable. 2 leagues above is equal to green belts against black belts or something like that and lop sided at best.

 

Think of it this way, if you are in the struggle to get into storm, you are trying to prove you can compete in storm. If you want to compete in storm, you will be playing against Typhoon so I am pretty sure in the struggle it treats your MM as if you were in that league you're trying for. That's my guess as to why it is like that. Obviously once queues get long for a higher seeded team it starts to throw MM rules out the window...

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26 minutes ago, Kebobstuzov said:

Think of it this way, if you are in the struggle to get into storm, you are trying to prove you can compete in storm. If you want to compete in storm, you will be playing against Typhoon so I am pretty sure in the struggle it treats your MM as if you were in that league you're trying for. That's my guess as to why it is like that. Obviously once queues get long for a higher seeded team it starts to throw MM rules out the window...

I get this, 5 leagues with 3 sub leagues each. it makes sense in Gale I that you would see more Storm than Gale and probably see little if any Squall. It makes sense in the struggle between Gale and Storm you would see Storm III and maybe some Storm II. I can not see how meeting even Typhoon III would be remotely balanced versus Gale I to Storm II?

Wish I could look back and see the previous 3 seasons for comparison or at least last season, because there was no alpha/bravo before season 3.

Edited by Imtoe

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I think they ought to assign players to Alpha or Bravo, because it's usually the same team, like in our case, same seven players on both Alpha and Bravo.

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18 hours ago, 1nv4d3rZ1m said:

Each person has a rating behind the scenes in Clan Battles, so if you take players from a hurricane team and drop them into a brand new clan they will very quickly start getting matches at a much higher level then they are ranked.

 

From my experience in Hurricane where both o7s alpha and bravo rating are at we do occasionally see gale and storm teams but its generally after waiting in queue for over 6 minutes. The last couple of weeks our queue time has been averaging about 5.5 minutes. Given how few teams there are in hurricane and that we cant play teams we recently faced its hard for mm to find matches at that level.

 

We also dont like getting storm or gale teams if its any consolation, we wait in queue for 6 minutes or more to play a 15 minute game and get 8 points on a victory or 35 points on a loss. Its really hard to change the rating when you get 8 points a win.

I dont play CB, so no dog in this fight. 

I highly doubt your lack of rewards is consolation for getting curbstomped repeatedly.  I would imagine drawing a few games against you guys would be extremely demoralizing, and I am 100% going to vote with my feet and go back to randoms rather than keep up with that.  I tend to not beat my head against the wall on things, if I am not having fun, I roll on to something else.  I absolutely loathe losing, and I won't do it over and over.

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Is there a site to see all of the rankings for clans and the category's they are currently in? 

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The rating of clan only show the "top" team, my clan have one alpha and one bravo team, we put our best playes on alpha and people how only wanna play "for fun" in bravo. I think this system is ok.

"but some strong clans going play in bravo" then they going up quick and not playing vs low level clans... this "prevent of advancement" not work... in max you going take 1 or 2 strong clans playing in bravo in what... 50 matches?

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I understand this sucks, as we've run into the same problem too.  But on the flip side, it depends on whether you want to "barely scrape into storm" or be comfortable of playing at a storm level. 

When we were in storm, we routinely played against typhoon teams. Being able to compete with teams 2 leagues above you means you will have confidence of being better than the teams who are in the same league as you.  It is just part of the struggle.... all the teams who are in storm had to go thru the same mm as well.

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1 hour ago, crzyhawk said:

I dont play CB, so no dog in this fight. 

I highly doubt your lack of rewards is consolation for getting curbstomped repeatedly.  I would imagine drawing a few games against you guys would be extremely demoralizing, and I am 100% going to vote with my feet and go back to randoms rather than keep up with that.  I tend to not beat my head against the wall on things, if I am not having fun, I roll on to something else.  I absolutely loathe losing, and I won't do it over and over.

I have a feeling you have no idea what is really happening. 

I doubt we have played vs any gale or storm team more than a handful of games the entire season. Don’t blow this out of proportion, it’s not like in randoms where you can put a 19 point captain in a tier 3 and stop noobs. 

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I don't really see the issue with occasionally being matched against top tier opponents (storm -> Hurricane bravo squad, or whatever).  Most clans I've seen come across this during streams are pretty chill and level headed about it.  They aren't going to lose many points, and are likely to pick up new strategies and ideas from seeing the top teams play.  It's like when a Division II or III college basketball team plays against Duke, or Kansas.  You're happy if you can keep it close to half time, and take pride in making it a tough match.  A win is euphoric, but a loss isn't that troubling to you.  You get exposure to top tier play, and hopefully take a few tips to improve your own game, hoping to some day get to that level yourself.  The experience is a learning opportunity.

Edited by RightYouAreKen

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