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KaptainKaybe

PLEASE DO NOT CHANGE HOOD'S FUSE TIMER!!! Or at least not without buffing the shell penetration too.

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I don't usually post in caps, but Wargaming are messing with my very favorite ship and I'm incredibly put off with this change. Allow me to explain for those who don't actually play this ship regularly.

Note: I very much appreciate the 1.9 sigma buff, but feel that the positive from that is being negated by the cons.

Hood's AP Krupp (base shell penetration) is GARBAGE. I can't stress this enough. It simply cannot reliably pen battleship main belts unless it's close enough to hold up a mirror so that the enemy ship's captain can shave. But the low fuze made it VERY good at smashing cruisers and even landing full pens on BB upper belts and superstructures *reliably*. The only people who really sucked with her are those who didn't know where to aim her shells to really take advantage of her fuse timers.

With this change, while the guns will be more accurate, what will happen is that they will become less reliable against cruisers or lightly armored parts of battleships, while STILL being unable to citadel battleships, hence reducing her damage potential.

Warspite's penetration is better than Hood's and her guns are more accurate ... more importantly, she's a tier lower. Vanguard is a tier higher, but her guns have MUCH better penetration power than either Hood or Warspite. In fact, it's roughly on par with Bismarck's, but much more accurate.

This is NOT a buff. Not at all. This could kill this ship ... UNLESS Wargaming ALSO changes it's penetration characteristics so they are more in line with other 15 inch gun ships.

 

LATER EDIT, January 18th: Sub_Octavian commented on Reddit! Let's see how the testing goes over the weekend!

"It's good to have shorter fuse if you have railguns. Hood does not have remarkable AP capabilities, and according to the similar case we tested during Vanguard preparation, making fuse longer actually increases the damage output against BB, while not really decreasing it against cruisers. We're pretty sure that our calculations are correct.

However, who wants to to make UK ship worse and piss off Jingles? Worry not, we will try to get some resources allocated and conduct additional automated tests over weekend with precisely Hood guns. Just in case.

And even if after all these precautions Hood magically will be nerfed by this change, we will revert it.

So, keep calm and colonize!"

Edited by KaptainKaybe
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I am a Hood fan and I am a little concerned about this too.

Edited by pikohan

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I'm really hoping that Wargaming will read this and make changes to her penetration power at the same time as the rest.

Otherwise,  my favorite ship is about to get a nerf masquerading as a buff :(

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58 minutes ago, KaptainKaybe said:

I don't usually post in caps, but Wargaming are messing with my very favorite ship and I'm incredibly put off with this change. Allow me to explain for those who don't actually play this ship regularly.

Note: I very much appreciate the 1.9 sigma buff, but feel that the positive from that is being negated by the cons.

Hood's AP Krupp (base shell penetration) is GARBAGE. I can't stress this enough. It simply cannot reliably pen battleship main belts unless it's close enough to hold up a mirror so that the enemy ship's captain can shave. But the low fuze made it VERY good at smashing cruisers and even landing full pens on BB upper belts and superstructures *reliably*. The only people who really sucked with her are those who didn't know where to aim her shells to really take advantage of her fuse timers.

With this change, while the guns will be more accurate, what will happen is that they will become less reliable against cruisers or lightly armored parts of battleships, while STILL being unable to citadel battleships, hence reducing her damage potential.

Warspite's penetration is better than Hood's and her guns are more accurate ... more importantly, she's a tier lower. Vanguard is a tier higher, but her guns have MUCH better penetration power than either Hood or Warspite. In fact, it's roughly on par with Bismarck's, but much more accurate.

This is NOT a buff. Not at all. This could kill this ship ... UNLESS Wargaming ALSO changes it's penetration characteristics so they are more in line with other 15 inch gun ships.

I'm not sure that I can agree with you, KK, but I understand your concerns.  I think that it might be better if, as you suggest, they were to bring the Hood more in line with other 15" gunned RN BBs/BCs.  At the same time, I'm not a fan of sailing around in a ship with legitimate BB grade guns (which 15" guns at tier 7 are) and not feeling like I can smack other BBs around properly and feel relegated to only focusing on cruisers.  This is sort of how the PEF feels right now, and it's not much fun.

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3 minutes ago, Crucis said:

I'm not sure that I can agree with you, KK, but I understand your concerns.  I think that it might be better if, as you suggest, they were to bring the Hood more in line with other 15" gunned RN BBs/BCs.  At the same time, I'm not a fan of sailing around in a ship with legitimate BB grade guns (which 15" guns at tier 7 are) and not feeling like I can smack other BBs around properly and feel relegated to only focusing on cruisers.  This is sort of how the PEF feels right now, and it's not much fun.

Well, the thing about the short fuze combined with better auto bounce angles made it so that Hood could very reliably land regular pens on other BBs through their upper belt and superstructure. Even very bow on, I could hit tier 8 battleships with 7 to 10k salvos EASILY because of that short fuze.

And of course, it's much much better against cruisers.

Now, she'll just be a regular battleship with very sucky shells. Not what I want to see.

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1 hour ago, KaptainKaybe said:

Hood's AP Krupp (base shell penetration) is GARBAGE. I can't stress this enough. It simply cannot reliably pen battleship main belts unless it's close enough to hold up a mirror so that the enemy ship's captain can shave. But the low fuze made it VERY good at smashing cruisers and even landing full pens on BB upper belts and superstructures *reliably*. The only people who really sucked with her are those who didn't know where to aim her shells to really take advantage of her fuse timers.

With this change, while the guns will be more accurate, what will happen is that they will become less reliable against cruisers or lightly armored parts of battleships, while STILL being unable to citadel battleships, hence reducing her damage potential.

I like the Hood too, and you have a good point about the artillery values.

I'm thinking this is a stealth nerf to make her more unpopular on the eve of the Rework, because Hood's unique close-in AA would shred the small attack segments of a CV strike. We can't have ships defending themselves successfully, now, can we? /sarcasm

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Wait thought the fuse time was improving?

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Totally agree with the OP. The "15k damage but no citadels and I'll take that to the bank ALL FRIGGIN' DAY" was Hood's calling card - it was what made the ship unique. Stripping her of this in exchange for what will likely be totally meh 'improved' AP is a bad, baaaaaaad idea. YOU SHOULDN'T NERF PREMIUMS, WARGAMING. If you want to improve the sigma, fine, but don't stealth nerf the shells.

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46 minutes ago, pikohan said:

I am a Hood fan and I am a little concerned about this too.

I am now concerned as well since I seem to have missed the notes that HMS Hood May be nerfed!? I love using my Hood as well as my other Royal Navy mid tier ships. And while they do well, I would not call them overpowered, not when return fire can chew you up easily enough to more than compensate for when your guns score good hits. And Hood only seems effective under 16km as it is, so any nerfs will greatly hurt her as she does not posses the armor thickness nor the secondary guns to go close range in an attempt to pen enemy armor.

And guns last I checked did not have the range or accuracy to fire long range though deck armor, and Hood deck armor is famous for what can happen from shells going into her deck armor, plus the turtleback armor makes taking long range hits a very bad idea.

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Oh crap I didn't even think of this. I was so happy to see the sigma buff (only thing the ship really needs) I sort of ignored the fuse change. :Smile_facepalm:

As OP says all you need to do is know where to aim with Hood and the guns are fine when you hit. Man I hope this "buff" isn't really a nerf. I love my Hood.

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I'm trying to push back as hard as I can on this change through as many channels as possible, but I'm really worried it'll go through anyways.

This is the ONLY time I've had a premium I own get a heavy nerf that's not a global change.

Oh god, why didn't they keep the fuse the same and only increase the sigma? That would have been perfect. But no, they just decided to [edited] everything up for no reason.

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Don't worry folks it is all working as intended. For 50-60 bucks WG will sell you the latest premium ship which will never be nerfed! I just don't get how these guys keep getting away with fleecing our cash (yes I put my hand up I also paid cash for the "privelage" of sailing Hood). When I pay for something, I expect to get what I paid for, but hey not in WG land! Yet again this company appears to be dishonarable or at the least underhanded in its quest to lighten its supporters pockets.

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Thanks for the post OP...Hood is one of my favorite ships and vastly underrated by those who don't know how to play her...with that said though, she is NOT OP in any way...so any type of nerf will effect her greatly.   Should be noted that Hood, Warspite and even Vanguard all had the same 15' gun Mk1 installed...they should all fire and act they same..... take note WG.  The Mk1 was very effective weapon....no nerfing needed please.

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41 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

Oh crap I didn't even think of this. I was so happy to see the sigma buff (only thing the ship really needs) I sort of ignored the fuse change. :Smile_facepalm:

As OP says all you need to do is know where to aim with Hood and the guns are fine when you hit. Man I hope this "buff" isn't really a nerf. I love my Hood.

It was the first thing i thought of when reading the changes.

Improved Hoods sigma "Hey thats great!"

Change Hoods fuse timer *sound of a record screeching off track* "SOB WGing someone drunk is at the wheel again."

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18 minutes ago, Morpheous said:

Thanks for the post OP...Hood is one of my favorite ships and vastly underrated by those who don't know how to play her...with that said though, she is NOT OP in any way...so any type of nerf will effect her greatly.   Should be noted that Hood, Warspite and even Vanguard all had the same 15' gun Mk1 installed...they should all fire and act they same..... take note WG.  The Mk1 was very effective weapon....no nerfing needed please.

Well, Warspite is okay as her Krupp value is higher than Hood's, plus she's a tier lower. And still more accurate.

Vanguard is fine as her krupp value is actually quite a good deal higher and she can actually citadel battleships without too much problem. And she's also more accurate.

Hood's shells simply don't have the punch to penetrate BB citadel protection, hence why she relied on her short fuze to tear chunks from enemy BB upper decks and superstructures.

So if they boosted her krupp up to be somewhere in between Warspite's and Vanguard, I'd be totally fine with this change. But if not, this is a clear nerf. I hate it when Wargaming listens to people who don't play this ship when those who actually play her regularly have always been adamantly against the AP fuse change ... these players KNOW why the short fuse is there.

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12 minutes ago, Morpheous said:

Thanks for the post OP...Hood is one of my favorite ships and vastly underrated by those who don't know how to play her...with that said though, she is NOT OP in any way...so any type of nerf will effect her greatly.   Should be noted that Hood, Warspite and even Vanguard all had the same 15' gun Mk1 installed...they should all fire and act they same..... take note WG.  The Mk1 was very effective weapon....no nerfing needed please.

Were there refits or something IRL along the way because WG is using different versions of the 381MM guns and/or AP shells on the ships.

  • Warspite = 381MM/42 Mk I guns * Mk XXIIb AP * 732 m/s * 11400
  • Hood = 381MM/42 Mk II guns * Mk XIIIa AP * 731.5 m/s * 11400
  • Vanguard = 381MM/42 Mk I guns * Mk XXIIb SC AP * 804 m/s * 11700

So WG has chosen different variants of the 381MM guns (or were Hood's guns just mounted in a different turret or something hence the II vs I - I know that happened a lot). Warspite and Vanguard get the same gun model but different AP (Vanguard gets the SC which is supercharged or a larger powder charge I think - right?). Hood has a different model 381MM (may be same actual guns) and a 3rd type of AP.

Were these different guns and/or AP really used on the ships or is this some kind of they were available or theorized at the time so for game "balance" they were chosen?

I don't know enough about it.

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2 hours ago, AdmiralThunder said:

Were there refits or something IRL along the way because WG is using different versions of the 381MM guns and/or AP shells on the ships.

  • Warspite = 381MM/42 Mk I guns * Mk XXIIb AP * 732 m/s * 11400
  • Hood = 381MM/42 Mk II guns * Mk XIIIa AP * 731.5 m/s * 11400
  • Vanguard = 381MM/42 Mk I guns * Mk XXIIb SC AP * 804 m/s * 11700

So WG has chosen different variants of the 381MM guns (or were Hood's guns just mounted in a different turret or something hence the II vs I - I know that happened a lot). Warspite and Vanguard get the same gun model but different AP (Vanguard gets the SC which is supercharged or a larger powder charge I think - right?). Hood has a different model 381MM (may be same actual guns) and a 3rd type of AP.

Were these different guns and/or AP really used on the ships or is this some kind of they were available or theorized at the time so for game "balance" they were chosen?

I don't know enough about it.

Exact same guns...though the Warspite's were done back in the teens and I understand were rebored during her interwar conversion...and had the turrets cut away so the gun could elevate like 20 degrees higher increasing her range by about 9k yards?     WG I am sure has justified changing the damage etc by ammo types...but they pretty much shot the same shell in WWII for each ship.   Vanguard was completed right before the war ended...so the guns were Pre WWII design, same gun.  It was debated to put 16' on Van but they would have to design a whole new gun etc for her...cheaper to go with the tried and true.  Funny thing the Warspite's range in game isn't really very close to what it should be...she should out range every ship of her tier....but its been nerfed to fit in the tier, a way too much...the Fuso has 19.8 range!!! and had inferior range in RL.  Warspite range 16.3, Hood 18.6, Vanguard 20   So this is a tier nerf...not based on historical data.  Quite acceptable for a tier MM game I suppose.  PS I am pretty sure they all fired the same shell types too...

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2 hours ago, KaptainKaybe said:

Well, Warspite is okay as her Krupp value is higher than Hood's, plus she's a tier lower. And still more accurate.

Vanguard is fine as her krupp value is actually quite a good deal higher and she can actually citadel battleships without too much problem. And she's also more accurate.

Hood's shells simply don't have the punch to penetrate BB citadel protection, hence why she relied on her short fuze to tear chunks from enemy BB upper decks and superstructures.

So if they boosted her krupp up to be somewhere in between Warspite's and Vanguard, I'd be totally fine with this change. But if not, this is a clear nerf. I hate it when Wargaming listens to people who don't play this ship when those who actually play her regularly have always been adamantly against the AP fuse change ... these players KNOW why the short fuse is there.

And since she has same guns as Warspite and Vanguard...would make sense to have the Pen be same...ah well....but yes w out the short fuze then Hood might as well be T6

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4 hours ago, Crucis said:

I'm not sure that I can agree with you, KK, but I understand your concerns.  I think that it might be better if, as you suggest, they were to bring the Hood more in line with other 15" gunned RN BBs/BCs.  At the same time, I'm not a fan of sailing around in a ship with legitimate BB grade guns (which 15" guns at tier 7 are) and not feeling like I can smack other BBs around properly and feel relegated to only focusing on cruisers.  This is sort of how the PEF feels right now, and it's not much fun.

The problem is that due to her terrible krupp rating she still won't be able to citadel BBs at anything other than short range, and the fast fuse doesn't affect her ability to citadel BBs at short range so all this change does, other than when hitting outlier ships like Dunkerque, is make it so she over pens cruisers and BB upperworks more often while still lacking the penetration to citadel BBs.

Hood is also my favorite ship in the game and seeing her get a nerf that is masquerading as a buff, a nerf she really doesn't need, does not make me happy.

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I'm not buying any more Premium ships. Now that the player base has shown that it's ok to nerf premiums-and don't give me that crap about, "but you didn't buy it, it's a freemium!" and since this nerf affects a hated clan battles ship it's fun to bandwagon for the troll factor.

 

A premium has been nerfed. Now all premiums are open game and it's already started. Look at the Hood "buff" coming up that will make her shells a complete joke as proof of that.

Don't think for a second that was a last minute change. The nerfing of the so called "super cruisers" was the test to see how this would fly with the players.

You all asked for it, you let the trial balloon float WGing's way, so enjoy your nerfed premiums. I will be having a grand ole time reading the rage posts when your favorite Premium gets Yueyanged into oblivion. My wallet is closed permenantly.

 

Monty.gif

 

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9 minutes ago, Rabbitt81 said:

I'm not buying any more Premium ships. Now that the player base has shown that it's ok to nerf premiums-and don't give me that crap about, "but you didn't buy it, it's a freemium!" and since this nerf affects a hated clan battles ship it's fun to bandwagon for the troll factor.

 

A premium has been nerfed. Now all premiums are open game and it's already started. Look at the Hood "buff" coming up that will make her shells a complete joke as proof of that.

Don't think for a second that was a last minute change. The nerfing of the so called "super cruisers" was the test to see how this would fly with the players.

You all asked for it, you let the trial balloon float WGing's way, so enjoy your nerfed premiums. I will be having a grand ole time reading the rage posts when your favorite Premium gets Yueyanged into oblivion. My wallet is closed permenantly.

 

Monty.gif

 

This has nothing to do with that.  I have every expectation, based on WG's changes in the past, that they think this is a buff.  If this was what you claim they'd be doing it to an actual over performing premium.

The supercruiser change is a global change to supercruisers.  Stop whining.

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Why are you all seeing this as a nerf, Colorado with faster AP shells (At range given due to lower shell drag) and significantly more penetration doesn't struggle at all with citadeling cruisers. So by logic why would this affect the hood to the extent that you see it as unplayable. It gets better performance against BBs and it retains most of its effectiveness against cruisers, WHILE BEING MORE ACCURATE. If you can actually aim, you'll have no probably blapping cruisers still.

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