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ClassicLib

MM - Let's Be Fair

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Post up what you think is fair MM.  I'll start:

Given: Player WR should balance between teams.  Where:

  1. CV players:
    1. Player's CV ship WR cannot vary more than 2% against the opposition player's CV ship WR
    2. Player's overall WR cannot vary more than 3%
  2. Overall WR of teams cannot vary more than 3% WR between the two (WR is calculated on player overall WR)
  3. Ship type WR of players cannot vary more than 3% when matching up player by player across teams (WR is calculated solely on the player in that ship)
  4. WR results for players are weighted where higher number of games in a ship weight higher
  5. WR results for players are weighted where higher number of overall games are weighted higher

Given: Tiers should balance between teams.  Where:

  1. Each class should have ships in tiers that match across teams
  2. There shall not be fewer bottom tier ships than top tier ships

Given: Ship types should balance between teams.  Where:

  1. Equal number of CV, BB, CA, CL, DD across teams
    1. One exception.  There can be two CVs on one team when there is a Graf Zeppelin on the other team.  The Graf Zeppelin team will only be allowed one CV.
    2. For #1.1, the two CV team shall have a least one AA spec'ed USN cruiser
  2. Thou shalt not pit a Ranger against a Saipan
  3. Where #1 cannot be met in a reasonable amount of time, the number of DD should match and the BB and Cruiser class can vary by one ship.  However, a CA should be used to balance against a BB and vice-versa.  Not a CL balanced against a BB.
  4. An HE spammer on one team should have an equivalent HE spammer on the opposite team

Given: Radar and Hydro consumables should balance between teams where:

  1. There shall be a equal number of radar ships on each team
  2. Where possible, a radar DD on one team should have an equivalent radar DD on the other
  3. Where possible, a hydro DD on one team should have an equivalent hydro DD on the other
Edited by ClassicLib
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Just now, Kombat_W0MBAT said:

Poor MM is gonna have a heart attack. 

Nah, just 10 minute queue times :cap_like:

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Why don't we start with what the MM actually does (algorithm or process or rules), then comment on it, versus starting from scratch. It would be more productive for the general community and WG can be a participant too.

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But win rate doesn't mean skill. Win rate is complete luck depending on the teams mm gives you. 

Or so I have heard so often.... 

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LOL. Nice post, @ClassicLib, but the Ranger, Saipan, and Graf Z as we know them are all history. 

Minimally, same number of divs/ships in divs, same number of players from purple clans, same number of radars, close win rate. CVs, Belfasts, and Stalingrads relegated to their own mode...

 

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3 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

LOL. Nice post, @ClassicLib, but the Ranger, Saipan, and Graf Z as we know them are all history. 

Minimally, same number of divs/ships in divs, same number of players from purple clans, same number of radars, close win rate. CVs, Belfasts, and Stalingrads relegated to their own mode...

 

but...but...but...muh Belfast!

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25 minutes ago, ClassicLib said:

Post up what you think is fair MM.  I'll start:

Given: Player WR should balance between teams.  Where:

  1. CV players:
    1. Player's CV ship WR cannot vary more than 2% against the opposition player's CV ship WR
    2. Player's overall WR cannot vary more than 3%.

Most CV's players under the current system would never get a game (maybe under the new one as well).

And yes, I know that would make some people very happy.

 

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6 minutes ago, FrodoFraggin said:

Nah, just 10 minute queue times :cap_like:

10? It would more likely run into hours before the stars came into alignment for an MM like this.

The only tweak needed right now for MM is to limit t10 battles to just t9 & t10, even if the teams have to be smaller.

Let the OP God ships play amongst themselves, there is no need to stroke there egos with 2 or 3 t8's.:cap_like:

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34 minutes ago, ClassicLib said:

 

  1. There shall not be fewer bottom tier ships than top tier ships

So you are basically asking for 3-5-7

 

This is what people dont understand. You will always have +2 matches. Wg isnt going to cater to your grind and make you top tier every time. So if you want there to be LESS top tiers each game, you will be seeing them MORE often. Then your entitled butt will be back here complaining about always being bottom tier and fighting tier 10s. 

 

Wg cant win, so they just dont play the game.

Edited by _1204_
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Just can't work for a ton of reasons.    1st and most important IMO is a skill based MM will actually manipulate W/R for all,  which are asking it to match with?     I could go on and on......    

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8 minutes ago, RA6E_ said:

Just can't work for a ton of reasons.    1st and most important IMO is a skill based MM will actually manipulate W/R for all,  which are asking it to match with?     I could go on and on......    

W/R has already been manipulated (for all).

I have 33% WRs with Fletcher and Lightning (90 games), and according to NA rankings (server), my damage per game is at the bottom 10%.

Either I caused these team mates to have a bad match just by showing up in the queue (2 out of 3 times), or I was paired with a team with similar skills as mine.

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If longer wait times prevent ROFLstomps then I am all for it. Winning or losing, lopsided matches are not fun.

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I would be content with what we have currently, changed to +1/-1, and at least for the first 1-2 minutes, attempting to match ship for ship (consumables wouldn't matter that much, as everyone assumes a radar capable ship has radar).  After 1-2 minutes, take the identical ship process out.

 

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6 minutes ago, Ericson38 said:

W/R has already been manipulated (for all).

I have 33% WRs with Fletcher and Lightning (90 games), and according to NA rankings (server), my damage per game is at the bottom 10%.

Either I caused these team mates to have a bad match just by showing up in the queue (2 out of 3 times), or I was paired with a team with similar skills as mine.

   Maybe I am misunderstanding your comment?   Sounds like you are saying that you don't believe that you could be part of the problem with these teams?       WG MM is not the culprit.    

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Just now, RA6E_ said:

   Maybe I am misunderstanding your comment?   Sounds like you are saying that you don't believe that you could be part of the problem with these teams?       WG MM is not the culprit.    

I'm certain that I'm 1/12th of each team's problem. I'll give it that much. As far as the rest: 

WG MM is what it is. Algorithms don't have faults, they are what they are. Everyone wonders just what it is though. WG is not definitive on what MM actually does, as they typically don't weigh in on these posts.

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1 hour ago, ClassicLib said:

Post up what you think is fair MM.  I'll start:

Given: Player WR should balance between teams.  Where:

  1. CV players:
    1. Player's CV ship WR cannot vary more than 2% against the opposition player's CV ship WR
    2. Player's overall WR cannot vary more than 3%
  2. Overall WR of teams cannot vary more than 3% WR between the two (WR is calculated on player overall WR)
  3. Ship type WR of players cannot vary more than 3% when matching up player by player across teams (WR is calculated solely on the player in that ship)
  4. WR results for players are weighted where higher number of games in a ship weight higher
  5. WR results for players are weighted where higher number of overall games are weighted higher

Given: Tiers should balance between teams.  Where:

  1. Each class should have ships in tiers that match across teams
  2. There shall not be fewer bottom tier ships than top tier ships

Given: Ship types should balance between teams.  Where:

  1. Equal number of CV, BB, CA, CL, DD across teams
    1. One exception.  There can be two CVs on one team when there is a Graf Zeppelin on the other team.  The Graf Zeppelin team will only be allowed one CV.
    2. For #1.1, the two CV team shall have a least one AA spec'ed USN cruiser
  2. Thou shalt not pit a Ranger against a Saipan
  3. Where #1 cannot be met in a reasonable amount of time, the number of DD should match and the BB and Cruiser class can vary by one ship.  However, a CA should be used to balance against a BB and vice-versa.  Not a CL balanced against a BB.
  4. An HE spammer on one team should have an equivalent HE spammer on the opposite team

Given: Radar and Hydro consumables should balance between teams where:

  1. There shall be a equal number of radar ships on each team
  2. Where possible, a radar DD on one team should have an equivalent radar DD on the other
  3. Where possible, a hydro DD on one team should have an equivalent hydro DD on the other

I don't want to wait forever for battle. Remember that the 15-20K at a time on the server is spread between PvP, co-op, OPs, ranked/clan battle among 10 tiers. Just matching ship type and tier is good.

 

Besides people already complain that MM is against them to keep their WR down and you want to add in that MM will take account of their WR to put them on one team or another? If WG does that, buy Alcoa stock.

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12 minutes ago, Old_Baldy_One said:

I would be content with what we have currently, changed to +1/-1, and at least for the first 1-2 minutes, attempting to match ship for ship (consumables wouldn't matter that much, as everyone assumes a radar capable ship has radar).  After 1-2 minutes, take the identical ship process out.

Change the MM to +1/-1 wouldnt addres any of the OP points. Bad players would still struggle and be a burden to their team, good players would still have good games and possibly carry their own teams.

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2 minutes ago, cthuhulu said:

If longer wait times prevent ROFLstomps then I am all for it. Winning or losing, lopsided matches are not fun.

This is a "If frogs had wings" comment.

1 hour ago, ClassicLib said:

Post up what you think is fair MM.  I'll start:

Given: Player WR should balance between teams.  Where:

  1. CV players:
    1. Player's CV ship WR cannot vary more than 2% against the opposition player's CV ship WR
    2. Player's overall WR cannot vary more than 3%
  2. Overall WR of teams cannot vary more than 3% WR between the two (WR is calculated on player overall WR)
  3. Ship type WR of players cannot vary more than 3% when matching up player by player across teams (WR is calculated solely on the player in that ship)
  4. WR results for players are weighted where higher number of games in a ship weight higher
  5. WR results for players are weighted where higher number of overall games are weighted higher

Given: Tiers should balance between teams.  Where:

  1. Each class should have ships in tiers that match across teams
  2. There shall not be fewer bottom tier ships than top tier ships

Given: Ship types should balance between teams.  Where:

  1. Equal number of CV, BB, CA, CL, DD across teams
    1. One exception.  There can be two CVs on one team when there is a Graf Zeppelin on the other team.  The Graf Zeppelin team will only be allowed one CV.
    2. For #1.1, the two CV team shall have a least one AA spec'ed USN cruiser
  2. Thou shalt not pit a Ranger against a Saipan
  3. Where #1 cannot be met in a reasonable amount of time, the number of DD should match and the BB and Cruiser class can vary by one ship.  However, a CA should be used to balance against a BB and vice-versa.  Not a CL balanced against a BB.
  4. An HE spammer on one team should have an equivalent HE spammer on the opposite team

Given: Radar and Hydro consumables should balance between teams where:

  1. There shall be a equal number of radar ships on each team
  2. Where possible, a radar DD on one team should have an equivalent radar DD on the other
  3. Where possible, a hydro DD on one team should have an equivalent hydro DD on the other

This would make Rube Goldberg proud.

On paper parity does not create 2 equal teams. MM is about as fair as it can be. You have the same odds to be on a good team as everyone else in the queue with you.

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13 minutes ago, kgh52 said:

This would make Rube Goldberg proud.

You flatter me!  Rube is one of my heros.

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54 minutes ago, _1204_ said:

So you are basically asking for 3-5-7

 

This is what people dont understand. You will always have +2 matches. Wg isnt going to cater to your grind and make you top tier every time. So if you want there to be LESS top tiers each game, you will be seeing them MORE often. Then your entitled butt will be back here complaining about always being bottom tier and fighting tier 10s. 

 

Wg cant win, so they just dont play the game.

A huge percentage of games I play at TX have a small number of T8 ships (often only 1) in the with mostly 9/10s.

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Yeah and when they get this set up, I can wait 12 hours.  This will give me plenty of time in queue to read great posts like this

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12 minutes ago, ClassicLib said:

You flatter me!  Rube is one of my heros.

I can tell.

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