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dimzzy

Stopping the lemmings

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It seems that stampede is the new norm now. I never been so effective stopping such rushes ))) But seriously--they took the base--why that push? What's up with these DDs feeding cruisers? It's not coop but that's exactly how coop looks like.

Anyway, keep calm and don't let them pass!

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A lot of the people that play this game just have no situational awareness at all. They tunnel vision on one thing, like a ship in front of them. Then push to get that single ship oblivious to the ships that are right next to them and will punish them. Those also happen to be the ones complaining that their team let them die.

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Well you might as well join the lemmings, at least you'll live longer than the 2 or 3 fools that try to hold the flank,

I always seem to end up trying to hold the flank.:cap_viking:

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10 minutes ago, CenturioRomanus said:

A lot of the people that play this game just have no situational awareness at all. They tunnel vision on one thing, like a ship in front of them. Then push to get that single ship oblivious to the ships that are right next to them and will punish them. Those also happen to be the ones complaining that their team let them die.

It's happened to me . Tunnel visioned into a fight only to have an enemy DD flank and torp.no torps landed but I had to slow down hence making me a sitting duck for the crusiers I had just torpedoed. But I try to remain vigilant when I can .

 

4 minutes ago, DarkStormy said:

Well you might as well join the lemmings, at least you'll live longer than the 2 or 3 fools that try to hold the flank,

I always seem to end up trying to hold the flank.:cap_viking:

Wait ....there's a flank and I didn't know about it. Uuuugh. No wonder everyone else was a cross the map. lol.

<o,

Edited by Versili

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What you can't see won't hurt you. OH NO TORPEDOES.

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26 minutes ago, DarkStormy said:

Well you might as well join the lemmings, at least you'll live longer than the 2 or 3 fools that try to hold the flank,

I always seem to end up trying to hold the flank.:cap_viking:

Very first game in Vanguard; broke from the train, and followed a Nürnberg pushing the opposite flank, as well as a lone, totally crazy Harekaze that was actually capping the Reds.

Miracle of miracles, I actually had flanking shots on the Reds for once. The Nurn and I wore down several cruisers that went to stop the Hare, who wisely retreated.

Nurn finally succumbed; Hare went after several Reds successfully, but went down to a last shot.

Red Atlanta burned out, leaving a Fiji that ran, and an Eddy that came after me. Might have been better if it ran; caught me with two torps (not unexpected,) coming out from behind an island, and took a so-so snapshot, then a citadel devstrike kill from a more patient shot when trying to expose the other torp launcher.

109k, 2 kill, 1st place score, first game in Vanguard, (19 point Warspite driver,) what an awesome first impression for a ship.

Breaking away from the train isn’t always bad; and it certainly helps when the enemy lemmings as well.

Edited by Estimated_Prophet

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38 minutes ago, dimzzy said:

It seems that stampede is the new norm now. I never been so effective stopping such rushes ))) But seriously--they took the base--why that push? What's up with these DDs feeding cruisers? It's not coop but that's exactly how coop looks like.

Anyway, keep calm and don't let them pass!

Your timing may be bad.  My clanmate battling on the PTS believes that keeping the green fleet together to pool AA bubbles will be important post-0.8.0.  Isolated ships are very vulnerable to air attack.  Lemming might become the new norm.

Disclosure:  Not being a tester, I have no personal experience with the reworked CVs.  I shall wait and see.

Edited by Daffyd9x

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4 minutes ago, Daffyd9x said:

Lemming might become the new norm.

Lemming is already the norm in CV games. And increasingly, in non-CV games. Even though lemming train is demonstrably inferior from a tactical point of view.

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I do not believe in Lemming trains. For over two yrs Ive watched them get smashed over and over and over. Yet Players still think that saftey relies in vast numbers of ships all going the same way. All it does is get you isolated in 1 cap and you lose the game. May times Ive been on a flank with two or three ships against an entire fleet. Ive gotten good at a fighting retreat holding them up long enough for our team to take two caps and come and help..Now they are the team isolated in one cap and lose. Amagi is a Great ship to conduct a fighting retreat, And many others are also. IMO lemming trains lose games and safety in numbers is an illusion.

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17 minutes ago, Edgecase said:

Lemming is already the norm in CV games. And increasingly, in non-CV games. Even though lemming train is demonstrably inferior from a tactical point of view.

Having ships shooting at you from 2 different directions is bad??? Who knew.... 

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I find the whole idea of calling out a lemming train to be fairly foolish.  In a CWs game, tanks or ships,  you project power by numbers on a small area.  This is what lemming trains do...they can be very effective at running over the opposition.  Since you have NO idea what the other team is doing, what I find VERY funny is the guys that start yelling about lemmings in the first minute or two of the game.  "we are going to lose, we have no flank we have no....fill in the blank"  So what if the other team lemming to the same side?  Well golly gee, its the SAME situation.   Now in pubs I will grant you that lemming is not as effective for two important reasons.  1) caps, you take one they take two and you can't kill ships fast enough being out of position to reset the clock  2)  Since the lemming train is not under command, they have a tendency to trickle into an area rather than going in with a large number...small flanking force that is holding can focus and kill 3-4 ships before they die and be up a ship or more.  But with all that said, I have seen pubbies lemming over and wipe one side out and then proceed to lemming into B and finish the game.  So again, I laugh at someone calling out a loss on a lemming train...you have NO idea how the game will end up.  There are many worse things out there strat wise than a lemming train.  CV player who never scouts with aircraft and just circles his strike and sends it all to one area...no fighter protect for his teammates either and the DD player that hangs back and doesn't scout...not saying they have to cap right off, but sitting behind islands or hanging w the CA's or worse the BBs and their teammates are spotted and dying....both much worse and probably more common.

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3 minutes ago, Morpheous said:

So again, I laugh at someone calling out a loss on a lemming train...you have NO idea how the game will end up.  There are many worse things out there strat wise than a lemming train.

I think I heard how it's called... "outpotatoed"?

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6 minutes ago, dimzzy said:

I think I heard how it's called... "outpotatoed"?

Call it it what you wish....but a strat that works is a win and as a long time caller, I have tried some crazy stuff....some work some don't.  One thing that does work is Numbers applied to a point of a defense...this rarely fails.

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6 minutes ago, Morpheous said:

Call it it what you wish....but a strat that works is a win and as a long time caller, I have tried some crazy stuff....some work some don't.  One thing that does work is Numbers applied to a point of a defense...this rarely fails.

Yes, I have seen them work from time to time, but that is a rarity.

The problem with the lemming train is that an effective flank on the train exposes ships to crossfire against broadsides. Being able to control the vector in which you are receiving fire is important to mitigating damage. Focus fire on a crossfire means you will tear through ships fast. Not to mention the torp soup that should be heading into the mass as well.

“No dumb bastard ever won a war by going out and dying for his country. He won it by making some other dumb bastard die for his country.” This quote can be applied to battles as well.....

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I'm in several games, not just WoWs....  In MWO, this is called NASCAR'ing.   Where a 12 person team roars off clockwise or counter-clockwise as a murder ball.....  Now, since the slower mechs can't keep up, the NASCAR gets eaten from behind.  In WoWs, even if you had all 12 players together, someone would have to "be in charge" to curtail the faster ships from putting too much distance between the BB's and the DD's... Otherwise, the team gets piece-meal'd. 

Lemmings, NASCAR, Murder Balls.....  If there is no leadership, it only wins because the other team falls apart....  This game is struggling and since the cruiser line split, I'm not sure I like it anymore.....  It's starting to feel like WoTs.....and, we all uninstalled from that debacle years ago....  I hope WG is paying some degree of attention and starts to working on the game culture because we are out-of-control at the moment.....  Radar did this because smoke was more than it should have been and now, we're right back where smoke was pre-radar....  A negative cycle and I can't find anywhere to play without just not being comfortable......so, I'm in COOP and staying there till WG figures this out.....

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42 minutes ago, Asym_KS said:

I'm in several games, not just WoWs....  In MWO, this is called NASCAR'ing.   Where a 12 person team roars off clockwise or counter-clockwise as a murder ball.....  Now, since the slower mechs can't keep up, the NASCAR gets eaten from behind.  In WoWs, even if you had all 12 players together, someone would have to "be in charge" to curtail the faster ships from putting too much distance between the BB's and the DD's... Otherwise, the team gets piece-meal'd. 

Lemmings, NASCAR, Murder Balls.....  If there is no leadership, it only wins because the other team falls apart....  This game is struggling and since the cruiser line split, I'm not sure I like it anymore.....  It's starting to feel like WoTs.....and, we all uninstalled from that debacle years ago....  I hope WG is paying some degree of attention and starts to working on the game culture because we are out-of-control at the moment.....  Radar did this because smoke was more than it should have been and now, we're right back where smoke was pre-radar....  A negative cycle and I can't find anywhere to play without just not being comfortable......so, I'm in COOP and staying there till WG figures this out.....

I Feel the same way

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2 hours ago, Morpheous said:

Call it it what you wish....but a strat that works is a win and as a long time caller, I have tried some crazy stuff....some work some don't.  One thing that does work is Numbers applied to a point of a defense...this rarely fails.

It can work if the team immediately goes to B. That rarely happens. They either push into enemy spawn or sit in the cap, or even worse between the edge cap and map border.

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3 hours ago, Daffyd9x said:

Your timing may be bad.  My clanmate battling on the PTS believes that keeping the green fleet together to pool AA bubbles will be important post-0.8.0.  Isolated ships are very vulnerable to air attack.  Lemming might become the new norm.

Well tell that to the sheep dog herding a flock of sheep.  Lemmings are usually a happy meal for a pack of wolves, especially in a standard battle.

Edited by slokill_1

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3 hours ago, DarkStormy said:

Well you might as well join the lemmings, at least you'll live longer than the 2 or 3 fools that try to hold the flank,

I always seem to end up trying to hold the flank.:cap_viking:

thats kinda what has been happening to me lately... :Smile_amazed: holding flanks is basically that...well...given i'm always in the ATL ...support ship...and scary one at that if used right...most cases when they know i'm on the flank...they would ether get the guts to push and hope my back up suck or non-existent (basically lemming to my position), or turn back go the other way... 

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22 hours ago, Billy2Hawks said:

Yes, I have seen them work from time to time, but that is a rarity.

The problem with the lemming train is that an effective flank on the train exposes ships to crossfire against broadsides. Being able to control the vector in which you are receiving fire is important to mitigating damage. Focus fire on a crossfire means you will tear through ships fast. Not to mention the torp soup that should be heading into the mass as well.

“No dumb bastard ever won a war by going out and dying for his country. He won it by making some other dumb bastard die for his country.” This quote can be applied to battles as well.....

I disagree...most lemming trains move so that an enemy flanking force doesn't get great crossfire...its kinda ring around the rosies...Lemming trains usually lose on points due to caps.

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20 hours ago, CaptainTeddybear said:

It can work if the team immediately goes to B. That rarely happens. They either push into enemy spawn or sit in the cap, or even worse between the edge cap and map border.

Yes agree...lemming has to keep moving...but lots of time it gets to A or C and goes WTH do we do now...since there is no central control this is where many Lemming trains go off the rails...but if they move B...keep on the rails...why they can win....and do.

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When I see my team do a Lemming Train, I know for a fact that the enemy DDs will just about bust a ___ on themselves.  Seeing 8, 10 or so ships going together is nothing but a target rich environment and their chances of getting torpedo hits skyrocket.

 

I know for a fact, from lots of past experience, that it's also easy to stop Lemming Trains dead in their tracks.  Send some torps.  Focus the forward most ships.  That kills the Lemming Train momentum 99% of the time.  The cowards in the back then stop and find the nearest bit of cover and stay there the rest of the game.

 

It takes quite a bit of effort to keep the momentum of a Lemming Train.  The guys up front have to do lots of quick kills, because any delay and the cowards behind them get skittish and disperse in the local area and hide.  Once the Lemming Train loses momentum, it's over, very hard to get them going again, especially if the aggressive ones in the forward ships end up getting killed.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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It becomes even more surreal when both teams lemming. Had a standard battle today on Mountain Range where both teams pushed hard on opposite sides of the map and the game was about which team could cap the base first with 3 to 4+ ships per cap. The last 3 or so minutes was ships capping and resetting. Many good teammates on both sides sacrificed themselves to reset and it was a really close game. We got lucky by having more ships trying to reset. Unfortunately I don't have a replay saved. Sometimes I hope when a lemming train loses to their base being captured on a standard battle mode, it's a lesson to the player to never lemming again. 

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