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StoptheViolins

8.0 CV Rework - Final Nail in the Tone Coffin?

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The new CV rework removes most manual activities from CV control so can we count this as WG giving up on ever bringing a hybrid cruiser like the Tone into the game or does WG have other tricks up their sleeves to make the Tone a reality?

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I thought that this mode would make the tone easier to make, not harder. Control ship, pop consumable squad, control planes, go back to ship. 

However the inability to cobtrol your ship at all would make it extremely hard to play with lots of them being deleted while flying their planes. 

Edited by Ducky_shot

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I think this makes it far harder to implement ships like Tone too.

Before you could send out planes to waypoints, drive the ship in the interim, take over for the strike - or even just autodrop - and generally be in more control.

Now you have to control the planes continuously from launching them including the flight to target, launch multiple attack runs, all the while your cruiser is sitting doing whatever on autopilot (but nothing useful like firing guns).

I would expect Tone in the new system to just end up parking behind an island as a half-baked and completely useless aircraft carrier with tiny striking power, while the red team get a functioning cruiser-cruiser.

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Just introduce the Tone with the same fighter consumable CVs get. Probably a terrible idea, but it could be a quick and easy solution. 

Edited by Kombat_W0MBAT
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Only a few actually envisioned the Tone with strike aircraft and it was probably never going to work. The aircraft would be too few and easy to shoot down (assume they get standard float plane tiers). It is more probable, and still possible, that the Tone is introduced with multiple Spotter AND Fighter aircraft consumables.

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6 minutes ago, Kombat_W0MBAT said:

Just introduce the Tone with the same fighter consumable CVs get. Probably a terrible idea, but it could be a quick and easy solution. 

This. This is the solution. If anything, the CV rework enables Tone.

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The mobile game combines the Main battery of a Bship with the rear end a flight deck of a carrier with RTS controls on a mobile phone!  Its Battlecarrier Ise.

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No, should have no effect at all. Not harder or easier. Will make the ship interesting to play however.

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There's nothing different now in a technical sense. However, the reasoning given for multiple controversial dev decisions makes it pretty clear that we'll never see a Tone or Ise with true hybrid gameplay. Specifically, if WG insists that people can't even be bothered to drive their own CV and manage their own damage control party consumables, there's zero chance they'll be cool with controlling a strike group and a fighting ship at the same time.

The other posters here are most likely right, it will just be a cruiser with a stronger than usual complement of catapult fighters and spotter planes.

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36 minutes ago, Kombat_W0MBAT said:

Just introduce the Tone with the same fighter consumable CVs get. Probably a terrible idea, but it could be a quick and easy solution. 

Yeah if the Tone is to become reality it may have to be a spot type consumables ship . The fire and forget fighters type. More of an area denial for CV. That could be a good counter . But who knows . Tone was even in the wiki page at one point, now it  will probobly go the way of the dodo.

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44 minutes ago, Kombat_W0MBAT said:

Just introduce the Tone with the same fighter consumable CVs get. Probably a terrible idea, but it could be a quick and easy solution. 

Japan's cruisers were not for carrying fighters. They were carrying the fleet air scout planes. 

IJN had carriers carry fighters and bombers while the cruisers would be the ones deploying the scout planes. 

 

With the current system, WG could simply have the aviation cruisers point the camera to where they want the scout plane to fly towards, click the launch plane button and the scout plane will fly in a straight line for X minutes then circle in place for 10 seconds and start flying back towards cruiser doing a few circle turns every minute. Make the scout plane be undetectable unless its 2km from a ship. 

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Tone could just use the defensive AA consumable to launch a couple squadrons. They could provide extremely potent air cover over say 8km, for 45 seconds or something. Even chasing down strike craft that make it through to deliver ordnance. Whatever the case, I think she's still viable.

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10 minutes ago, Skyfaller said:

Japan's cruisers were not for carrying fighters. They were carrying the fleet air scout planes. 

IJN had carriers carry fighters and bombers while the cruisers would be the ones deploying the scout planes.

While true,  IRL NOBODY carried float plane fighters on warships (not including seaplane tenders and those CAM ships) but in-game, most catapult equipped ships can equip fighters. Tone would be no different except it could carry both at the same time. Say three "squadrons" of two aircraft each (three with the skill) and you pick the load-out. (All of one type or a mix)

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1 hour ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

This. This is the solution. If anything, the CV rework enables Tone.

And makes TOne a no-fly zone for 6-8 minutes? Or a total joke for 18-30 seconds like some complaints I’ve read about the BB fighters? (Or is that the DFAA consumable?)

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The most vicious floatplane fighter the IJN had was the Pete.  It could out-turn and out-climb any US fighter...  but it couldn't out run them.

Getting complacent and looking down on a bi-plane was the last thing a lot of US pilots ever did in their lives.  These little things were hard to shoot down, and could 'Knife-Fight in a phone booth'.

To the dismay of many IJN pilots, it was replaced by the Rufe (basically, a Zero with floats).

Among other more common dedicated 'observation' types like the Jake.

These planes could carry a couple 50 lb bombs, which in the world of battleships may seem insignificant.  But in the world of Submarines and PT boats, it was fast death from the sky.

.....

Like I always say, WW2 could have gone quite differently.  The Japanese had been putting a lot of effort into 'Floatplane Warfare', where they could amass an air armada anywhere - without the need of an airfield or Aircraft Carriers.  They provided close ground support, intel gathering, and fighter protection.

In the early Philippines campaign, these floatplanes crippled the US logistics and troop movements.

Later in the war, the USS Enterprise was converted to specifically combat night-operating floatplanes.

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Did Tone have strike planes? My impression was that the IJN used its heavy cruiser aviation mainly as scouts.

At least, that’s the view portrayed by Parshall and Tully in Shattered Sword

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2 hours ago, Kombat_W0MBAT said:

Just introduce the Tone with the same fighter consumable CVs get. Probably a terrible idea, but it could be a quick and easy solution. 

Just give the Tone plenty of spotter planes and be done with it.

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1 hour ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

And makes TOne a no-fly zone for 6-8 minutes? Or a total joke for 18-30 seconds like some complaints I’ve read about the BB fighters?

Or maybe somewhere in between that makes it a viable proposition. 

51 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Just give the Tone plenty of spotter planes and be done with it.

Or spotter AND fighter.

 

Mind you, the second "line" of carriers they are planning to reintroduce could have a separate mission - ASW. Effectively a spotter with authority to autodrop on any submarine it encounters.

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3 hours ago, StoptheViolins said:

The new CV rework removes most manual activities from CV control so can we count this as WG giving up on ever bringing a hybrid cruiser like the Tone into the game or does WG have other tricks up their sleeves to make the Tone a reality?

the only thing this change will do is remove is the 1000's of FTP players that play this game on bad internet. Good CV players have to much skin in the game, They aren't going anywhere. Most of us wannabe CV drivers will step in and try.

there is a reason a great CV player is 75% in cv's and 58% in ships. Try and figure it out. Its not simply skill, its internet connection, graphics cards....FTP players.....

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3 hours ago, Kombat_W0MBAT said:

Just introduce the Tone with the same fighter consumable CVs get. Probably a terrible idea, but it could be a quick and easy solution. 

I was thinking along the same lines. Maybe with a consumable choice between CAP fighters or a recon squad that flies a large AI-controlled search pattern. The search option would actually be in line with the IJN hybrids'  primary intended purpose of scouting.

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Well, for one, the CV rework definitely makes it *easier* to add Tone to the game, not harder. The old system enforced an RTS and switching between RTS and third person constantly would probably have been a problem. Or at least it would explain why it hasn't been added in yet.

With the rework, you could easily play the ship like any other cruiser, and then if need be, you could switch to a plane to fly around. I think a lot of players would love this.

Now for the record, I hate that you are unable to switch back to your carrier without trashing your plane wave. I'd MUCH rather have it so that plane wave simply flies in circles where you last left it until you go back to it. I also hate that carrier consumables are automatic instead of player controlled. That last bit is inane beyond all comprehension. No other ship has automatic control over consumables and in fact manual control is necessary so you don't just DCP a single fire. The only consumable that makes sense for it to be automatic is Repair Party.

All that being said, whether you can switch between the two or not, Tone will be very easy to implement. In fact, it might be best in this one case to only allow direct control over either the ship or planes at a time otherwise Tone risks being ridiculously OP. In fact, it might already be ridiculously OP as it's basically a cruiser than can control it's scouting aircraft. Imagine if you could fly out, spot that destroyer, and then keep the plane circling overhead to spot it while shooting at it with your cruiser guns. Would be overpowered as f*ck.

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I wish they could have the Tone and Ise and Hyuga in game. I agree that this ends any possibility of them being implemented. 

Here's an idea, Have on the Tone multiple squads of fighter and basically use them to hover over friendlies and protect them or the Tone itself. I don't know if that would be enough though sadly but its an idea.

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