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YouSatInGum

Why is Dallas such a turd...

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I was expecting an Omaha with a touch more armor and more ability to get closer and dirtier.  Well, maybe it's a little better than Oma's eggshell armor, but it exchange the rudder is stuck in molasses, it's slower, accelerates like a bus,  loses torpedos or that rare pop up fight, and even though it has the same guns the shells must have little parachutes.  I have to lead almost 50% more compared to Oma's shells... no exaggeration.  Thinking of biting the bullet and spending some FXP to get Helena right away... but afraid the Helena has the same flaws.  But in any case I feel really let down by Dallas especially considering the most other T6 Cruisers are better than their T5 predecessors. 

By the way... how does one get an Atlanta?  Seems like a fun ships.

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If you already dislike Dallas, why would you want Atlanta? Honestly, it doesn't really sound like it's the ship at fault, but more that you're facing off against more experienced opponents at a higher tier.

My 2 cents suggests you not get Atlanta until you get better going up the regular tech tree lines first. Atlanta is very punishing of mistakes...and Dallas is not the dog you make it out to be.

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22 minutes ago, YouSatInGum said:

I was expecting an Omaha with a touch more armor and more ability to get closer and dirtier.  Well, maybe it's a little better than Oma's eggshell armor, but it exchange the rudder is stuck in molasses, it's slower, accelerates like a bus,  loses torpedos or that rare pop up fight, and even though it has the same guns the shells must have little parachutes.  I have to lead almost 50% more compared to Oma's shells... no exaggeration.  Thinking of biting the bullet and spending some FXP to get Helena right away... but afraid the Helena has the same flaws.  But in any case I feel really let down by Dallas especially considering the most other T6 Cruisers are better than their T5 predecessors. 

By the way... how does one get an Atlanta?  Seems like a fun ships.

Dallas was pretty meh imho from when I played her. It isn't great but I'd argue that it's better than Omaha and not a 'turd' as you put it. Dallas is also mostly  representative of how the USN CL line plays. They don't have torpedoes, are armoured with cardboard, and have shells which visit the moon before landing. The playstyle of USN CLs (and USN CAs to an extent) from Dallas upwards is to park behind an island and rain IFHE HE death on opponents from over that island. If you don't like that style of play then don't free xp to Helena or go any further, since it's more of the same. Even when you reach Worcester, the general playstyle is to sit behind an island and fire at reds, with some radar and hydro mixed in to screw with DDs. 

Atlanta follows the same pattern. Hide behind island and pew pew pew with IFHE HE fire. It's purchasable in the WG shop https://na.wargaming.net/shop/wows/vehicles/1206/ However I'd think very carefully about it if you don't like Dallas's playstyle.

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Do you have Concealment Expert and IFHE on the captain? If not, that's part of the problem. The Dallas is eggshell fragile, but the 10 guns are very good. The arcs are characteristic all the way to T10, it's the USN thing. Torpedoes, I think I used them once or twice on the Omaha, don't really need them on the Dallas. But the reload is good, the ship can still kite, and the guns hit hard with IFHE. Kite at mid range, and just burn everything. However, you do need CE and IFHE for the ship to really perform. So do all the USN CLs.

The Helena is borderline OP. But it has the same arcs as the Dallas, same guns (slightly better reload), and turns slower. But it has 15 guns, and just enough armor to avoid getting citadeled from any angle. Don't get me wrong, it's still a light cruiser, giving broadside will get you deleted, and 16" guns don't care about your angle. But top tier against 14" and even 15" guns I've found the Helena does not get lolpenned as much. It can still happen, but unlike Dallas, it's not a certainty if you get hit by a BB. And the ROF of 15 6" guns with IFHE is scary. IF you like the Dallas, then you'll love the Helena. If you can't get the Dallas to work, then the USN CL line isn't for you, it's basically representative of the whole thing.

The Atlanta isn't available right now. It was pulled from permanent sale a while back (just got rotated out). It comes back from time to time, keep an eye on the store. You're right, it is a fun ship. Whether it's a good ship is another matter. The 5" arcs are even worse than the 152mm. It's made of paper, and doesn't turn that well. That said, the AA and firepower are hilarious. A 3 Atlanta division is even more fun. If you want a ship for fun, but which you probably aren't very good in, the Atlanta is for you. If getting deleted in 5min most games, but having an epic game every once in a while isn't your thing, then it's a hard pass. It's a ship for fun, and not much else. But it is the funniest ship in the game IMO.

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It's a tier 6 LIGHT Cruiser, were you expecting to bounce 16 inch shells?

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have you check this out yet?

52 minutes ago, YouSatInGum said:

but afraid the Helena has the same flaws

 

 

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As someone with little faith is his own abilities, I found Dallas quite pleasant to use, and not as bad as many claim.

Just five games, but using my Marblehead ‘move up to help destroyers then kite away when the big boys appear’ I had a 80% survival and wr my initial foray into Randoms with it.

Squishy? Sure; that one death was pretty spectacular, but it’s not that bad.

Of course, I tend to get along with ‘hated’ ships anyway; and I liked Dallas just for its looks alone before I even played it in Randoms. (Nice looking hybrid between the old treaty cruisers and the newer Helena/Clevelands.)

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I ground out the Dallas in the old Aegis where it shined. I don't know about now with the BB's replacing the CVs.

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It seems like an awesome ship to me, but it still needs to be treated very carefully and situationally due to it's ease of getting damaged.

(as I'm finding out, no  US cruisers expert here lol)

 

Hated the Omaha class cruisers, but then this new line of light US cruisers came out and I decided to give it a try.

Fun, fun, fun... :cap_win:

Edited by MudRaker227

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Dallas is not as good as the long gone T6 Cleveland (ah the good old days...), but is still a decent ship if played to its strengths. As mentioned by many, it has the playstyle that will continue with the remaining US CL line so if you don't like it, don't go up the line looking for something different. None of the line have torps or can be considered open water brawlers. Armor is somewhat middle of the road. One of their features is derpy, relatively short ranged, guns. Make this an advantage by shooting over rocks that those Russian rail guns can't. IFHE helps, especially since you tend to use HE more than other light cruiser lines. With the CV rework and likely spike in CVs, having decent AA may become more valuable (assuming WG doesn't make AA useless).

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Dallas isn't that bad, but Helena makes it all worth it.  That said, if you are not enjoying Dallas, you are unlikely to enjoy the rest of the USN CL line as they all play fairly similarly and have generally the same strengths and weaknesses.

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I thought I would like Dallas since I thoroughly enjoy Omaha.  Only complaint against Omaha is the physics defying 75+ degree angles than can citadel it.  The loss of torpedos isn't a big deal considering they are rarely used on Oma.  The two things to do grate on me is how the same freaking gun as Oma can have such different (and worse) ballistics.  While they do seem to deal more damage, they are also less effective at that 10+km range that both need to stay at to live more than 5 min.  All that said, I'm sure I can adjust my timing and recalibrate my leading. 

With that said, the second thing, which bothers me more a lot more, is the rudder shift that is more at home on a BB... In fact, the S.C. and Wyoming have better times.  It has the worse time of all T6 cruisers (except for Budy which is nearly as bad) and that is including the CA Pensacola.  For a "light" cruiser that needs to keep moving that is a bad joke.  I've done the rudder module which helps but still irritates me since the acceleration mod would have better complimented island parking you guys mention.

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I liked it, but don't expect to carry team.  Hunt DDs and set fires.  It is nimble and quick.  IFHE and CE are needed skills.  I like IFHE first then CE.

 

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I used to play cruisers at distance in open water for the most part.  Dallas was the first cruiser that forced me to learn positioning - abuse of terrain, ambushing DD's, hitting ships distracted by teammates, etc.  If you pick up the basics of this in Dallas, it can be a dangerous ship.  Helena takes things to another level entirely.  With IFHE, she is just a beast that makes ships melt.

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I actually liked it a lot and really clicked with it in the short time I played it. 67k average damage, 71% winrate. I got it from the PEF campaign so it came fully unlocked. I'm actually averaging more damage in it than I am in the Helena, weirdly enough. Though I had to grind the Helena from bone stock.

 

I only had a ten point captain and went IFHE instead of CE, which I think was the big difference maker. PT>AR>SI(which was a mistake IMO, I never use all my consumables. If i could do it again I'd chose DE and then SI later)>IFHE.

It has fantastic DPM for its tier so as long as you keep shooting you'll do well. I used island cover as much as I could and didn't miss CE as much as I thought I would.

I dunno, it was by far my best experience in a tier 6 cruiser. I did the Aoba recently and that felt like a total turd compared to the Dallas. Just completely inable to pump out damage. It felt like I had no impact on the match.

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On 1/15/2019 at 6:27 PM, YouSatInGum said:

The two things to do grate on me is how the same freaking gun as Oma can have such different (and worse) ballistics. 

May be misunderstanding you but Omaha and Dallas do not have the same guns. Omaha has the higher velocity 152/53 guns. Dallas has the derpy 152/47 that the rest of the CL line will have. They will require different aiming. The HE and AP for the Dallas have slightly different velocities further complicating your aiming. Damage wise Omaha and Dallas guns are almost identical. Reload time is actually longer for the Dallas (WG balance I guess) but you can bring all 10 guns to bear on a target. Derpy guns are a double edged sword. They make aiming more difficult at long range but do allow you to shoot over islands that "better" guns cannot. Dallas also has much better AA and secondaries with about the same range as the missing torps. (most games I would be willing to lose 4- 5"/38s to have the torps)

Edited by Sabot_100

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On 1/15/2019 at 1:11 PM, AJTP89 said:

Do you have Concealment Expert and IFHE on the captain? If not, that's part of the problem.

 

25 minutes ago, Sabot_100 said:

May be misunderstanding you but Omaha and Dallas do not have the same guns. Omaha has the higher velocity 152/53 guns. Dallas has the derpy 152/47 that the rest of the CL line will have. They will require different aiming. The HE and AP for the Dallas have slightly different velocities further complicating your aiming. Damage wise Omaha and Dallas guns are almost identical. Reload time is actually longer for the Dallas (WG balance I guess) but you can bring all 10 guns to bear on a target. Derpy guns are a double edged sword. They make aiming more difficult at long range but do allow you to shoot over islands that "better" guns cannot. Dallas also has much better AA and secondaries with about the same range as the missing torps. (most games I would be willing to lose 4- 5"/38s to have the torps)

@YouSatInGum, this is very important. You're right at the point in the game where you need to learn real skills and knowledge about the ships and the game. Its NOW or forever suffer. Do not pass the Dallas, do not collect $200. T6 and changing to the line's upper tier identity are important to learn. (Namely, you need to learn how to fire over rocks in Dallas) 

Helena is amazing, and is borderline overpowered at 55%. 

You need IFHE FIRST, and then CE second. I run Helena with only IFHE so you should be fine as long as you have a 10pt captain for Dallas. 

 

Omaha is such a fun ship. Its sad that the BBs at low tiers are all so overpowered in comparison. Yes the rudder shift thing is crap. 

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On 1/15/2019 at 6:55 PM, Uncle_Lou said:

Dallas isn't that bad, but Helena makes it all worth it.

Loved Omaha

Hated Dallas

Loved Helena

In the CL range, Dallas and Seattle were both pretty painful, however I really like the rest of the line.   Helena, Cleveland, and Worcester are worth the pain.

Abbye

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On 1/15/2019 at 3:39 PM, YouSatInGum said:

I was expecting an Omaha with a touch more armor and more ability to get closer and dirtier.  Well, maybe it's a little better than Oma's eggshell armor, but it exchange the rudder is stuck in molasses, it's slower, accelerates like a bus,  loses torpedos or that rare pop up fight, and even though it has the same guns the shells must have little parachutes.  I have to lead almost 50% more compared to Oma's shells... no exaggeration.  Thinking of biting the bullet and spending some FXP to get Helena right away... but afraid the Helena has the same flaws.  But in any case I feel really let down by Dallas especially considering the most other T6 Cruisers are better than their T5 predecessors. 

By the way... how does one get an Atlanta?  Seems like a fun ships.

Omaha and Dallas both have 6-inch guns, but they are not the same gun and don't fire the same shell.  Omaha has an older 6-inch 53 caliber gun, while Dallas has a 6-inch 47 caliber gun with heavier shells and lower velocity.  Helena has the same guns that Dallas has.  Dallas /is/ a much better ship than Omaha, she's just harder to use effectively.  If you don't like Dallas's guns, you will hate Atlanta's.  Tech tree USN cruisers don't carry torpedoes after Omaha either  Very few cruisers are effective brawlers at higher tiers.  Getting closer and dirtier is going to be rarely successful.

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The dallas is a monster specially when it gets IFHE. That's the key....IFHE...and island cover.

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You don't really even need IFHE.  Even without it, the Dallas burns stuff down nicely, and is murder on DDs and other CL.

It's T6, and the playstyle is different than T5 and under.

You really only need IFHE when fighting T8s. Which does occasionally happen, but not that often.

 

Edited by LAnybody

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On 1/23/2019 at 10:30 PM, LAnybody said:

You don't really even need IFHE.  Even without it, the Dallas burns stuff down nicely, and is murder on DDs and other CL.

It's T6, and the playstyle is different than T5 and under.

You really only need IFHE when fighting T8s. Which does occasionally happen, but not that often.

 

IFHE helps Dallas pen more plating on everything it will face except most DD. Dallas with IFHE gets you a lot more damage. There is pretty much no down side to having IFHE.

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If you plan on moving your captain up to Helena, and you should if you intend to progress up the line, then you NEED IFHE before CE. It becomes more and more essential as you move up the CL line. Otherwise take your pick of the two skills first and then follow up with the second. IFHE is helpful at tier 6, but for the targets you should be focusing on it's not necessary.

Play Dallas like what I like to call it: Diet Pensacola. Your guns are high-RoF fire-starters instead of hard-hitting AP-slingers, but the principle is sound. You are fragile and need to stick with the pack, AVOID getting in close when possible and stay at mid-range where your arcs are manageable. And above all else keep your allies covered with your consumables. Swat planes with DFAA and cat. fighter, foil torp runs and flush destroyers out of smoke with Hydro, and keep those guns firing at their targets. The CL line are Swiss Army knife support cruisers that serve as a force multiplier to allies, they're not for running off and brawling or sitting in the back sniping.

I've also got to echo everyone else's statements on Atlanta: If you don't get the hang of your Diet Pensacola, don't even bother. Atlanta is squishier and sees bigger ships while carrying smaller guns with less range. She's an excellent fire-starter and plane-killer, and good at punishing destroyers that get too close, but she's in a very bad place on her own and unsupported.

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