Destroyers would be the most overpowered ship type

[Gavroche_]

Destroyers would be the most overpowered ship type, if only people knew the top secret, super-unicum  strat of sailing into the large circles at the center of the map.

[Zenn3k]

4 minutes ago, Gavroche_ said:

Destroyers would be the most overpowered ship type, if only people knew the top secret, super-unicum  strat of sailing into the large circles at the center of the map.

And then being radar'ed and destroyed.    

If there are Radar ships in the game, my DD doesn't go anywhere NEAR the objective until about 5 minutes into the game.   I'll sail around the edge and help hunt down the enemy DD if I have support, but I'm not going into the point just to be radar'ed and die.

[Gavroche_]

8 minutes ago, Zenn3k said:

And then being radar'ed and destroyed.    

If there are Radar ships in the game, my DD doesn't go anywhere NEAR the objective until about 5 minutes into the game.   I'll sail around the edge and help hunt down the enemy DD if I have support, but I'm not going into the point just to be radar'ed and die.

The caps are LAVA

[S16_Hunter]

17 minutes ago, Gavroche_ said:

Destroyers would be the most overpowered ship type, if only people knew the top secret, super-unicum  strat of sailing into the large circles at the center of the map.

Sigh.. if only it were that simple.   And I'm sure with 8k battles in you already know that. Yes it's frustrating at times to watch DD's do everything but go into the Circle!  Playing a fair amount of DD it's more frustrating to "TRY" to get the cap only to find 1. you have no help 2. you had help but oops the opposing team showed up and they ran away  3. you immediately get hit by radar and you priority target indicator goes to FREAKING 6..  4. you have help, sort of, they are back there about 12k, or hiding behind an island..  and the list could go on for hours.

I really do try to cap when playing DD's for the most part, but it just keeps getting more difficult so hence the sailing anywhere but in the Big circles :). 

 

[LubzinNJ]

4 minutes ago, S16_Hunter said:

Sigh.. if only it were that simple.   And I'm sure with 8k battles in you already know that. Yes it's frustrating at times to watch DD's do everything but go into the Circle!  Playing a fair amount of DD it's more frustrating to "TRY" to get the cap only to find 1. you have no help 2. you had help but oops the opposing team showed up and they ran away  3. you immediately get hit by radar and you priority target indicator goes to FREAKING 6..  4. you have help, sort of, they are back there about 12k, or hiding behind an island..  and the list could go on for hours.

I really do try to cap when playing DD's for the most part, but it just keeps getting more difficult so hence the sailing anywhere but in the Big circles :). 

 

6? Try 10. The #1 priority of every DD captain when there is radar around is to have an immediate plan to get away from that radar at all times.

[1nv4d3rZ1m]

That moment when you are capping in a CL because the only DD that decided go the same direction is sliding down the map border.

[Final8ty]

25 minutes ago, Gavroche_ said:

Destroyers would be the most overpowered ship type, if only people knew the top secret, super-unicum  strat of sailing into the large circles at the center of the map.

That's why you play Cruiser 39%  Battleship 24% Destroyer 20% Aircraft Carrier 17% of the time.

 

[MG1962]

31 minutes ago, Zenn3k said:

And then being radar'ed and destroyed.    

If there are Radar ships in the game, my DD doesn't go anywhere NEAR the objective until about 5 minutes into the game.   I'll sail around the edge and help hunt down the enemy DD if I have support, but I'm not going into the point just to be radar'ed and die.

I don't play DDs but I get sick of hearing players scream at DDs to get into caps. The DDs greatest worth in the first half of the battle is spotting for the fleet. I am more than happy for a DD to sneak behind an island and stick his nose out every so often for some threat assessment.

People need to get the idea that the games are won in the first 5 minutes out of their heads. You have 20 minutes to achieve the objective.

[Capt_Mexib]

Actually a well played CV, in the current play style, will dominate the game. A well played DD would be next in line.

The catch being "well played". How many well played CV's or DD's do you see?

.

 

[Lert]

The problem with destroyers capping in early game is the prevalence of radar. Now it would help if those destroyers kept those radar ships lit so we bigger fellas can work them over ...

[dechion]

You know what the top secret super OP secret of winning is?

Teamwork.

That's why divisions are so powerful.

Maybe the DD folks are yelling at would go into the cap if they weren't expected to do it unsupported.

Maybe the cruisers and BBs that are hiding 12k back behind islands would come up if the DD laid smoke for them.

It's all about working together.

[cthuhulu]

9 minutes ago, MG1962 said:

 

People need to get the idea that the games are won in the first 5 minutes out of their heads. You have 20 minutes to achieve the objective.

I have see plenty of games lost in the first 5 minutes.

[Rouxi]

2 minutes ago, Lert said:

The problem with destroyers capping in early game is the prevalence of radar. Now it would help if those destroyers kept those radar ships lit so we bigger fellas can work them over ...

Those radar ships have figured that out which is why they all hide behind islands now.

[Skpstr]

51 minutes ago, Zenn3k said:

And then being radar'ed and destroyed.    

If there are Radar ships in the game, my DD doesn't go anywhere NEAR the objective until about 5 minutes into the game.   I'll sail around the edge and help hunt down the enemy DD if I have support, but I'm not going into the point just to be radar'ed and die.

I'll try for a quick cap, but I'm basically just cutting the near chord of the circle. If I get spotted, I'm out. Radar baiting is fun lol.

If I can get in there first, and can outspot whatever DD(s) I'm facing, I'm finding that quite often, it scares the enemy off, and I can complete the cap w/o incident.

What this in turn often does is encourages my teammates to move up, and they can hold the cap.

[Lert]

6 minutes ago, Rouxi said:

Those radar ships have figured that out which is why they all hide behind islands now.

Yep! Exactly true. And then we BBs are yelled at for not killing the radar ships.

[Gavroche_]

42 minutes ago, S16_Hunter said:

Sigh.. if only it were that simple.   And I'm sure with 8k battles in you already know that. Yes it's frustrating at times to watch DD's do everything but go into the Circle!  Playing a fair amount of DD it's more frustrating to "TRY" to get the cap only to find 1. you have no help 2. you had help but oops the opposing team showed up and they ran away  3. you immediately get hit by radar and you priority target indicator goes to FREAKING 6..  4. you have help, sort of, they are back there about 12k, or hiding behind an island..  and the list could go on for hours.

I really do try to cap when playing DD's for the most part, but it just keeps getting more difficult so hence the sailing anywhere but in the Big circles :). 

 

You may think I’m joking and I am, like 20%. The other 80% is super serious. Capping is definitely one of the hardest thing to do as a DD, and if you figure out how to do it you can easily get 60+% WR in any season of ranked.

In order to successfully contest a cap you need an encyclopedic knowledge of spotting mechanics in the game, an encyclopedic knowledge of the stats of your and enemy ships, and an idea of what the players on both teams are likely to do.

E.g. 

What are the radar ranges of high tier cruisers?

—Soviet cruisers get 11.7km radar, American light cruisers get <9.0 radar, Des Moines get 9.6km radar. Black and pan Asian DDs get 7.5km, Chappayev and radar Minotaur is dangerous because of stealth radar.

What do other DDs do?

—IJN DDs can outspot you but can’t outgun you.VMF DDs can outgun you but never outspot you (except groz which can outgun you and has a very nice 6.1km conceal) IJN gunboats have very good concealment and will tear you to shreds. German DDs have hydro 4.5km-> 6.0km going up from tier VI to X.

 

Will my team have my back? Are there dangerous enemy ships here? Can I bait out a radar or will I take too much damage?

 

Sailing into the danger-circles is definitely something that takes skill. Top-secret, super-unicum levels of skill.

[dechion]

9 minutes ago, Lert said:

Yep! Exactly true. And then we BBs are yelled at for not killing the radar ships.

This is why radar should need line of sight, to discourage island camping.

 

[Lert]

5 minutes ago, dechion said:

This is why radar should need line of sight, to discourage island camping.

Honestly, while I can see the merit of such a change, there is a technical aspect to consider. The current system simply changes the guaranteed detection radius from 2km to <radar> km for <duration> seconds. Very easy to code and low overhead on the server. Adding line of sight will just add a lot of complications, and while I'm sure WG programmers can make it work, I'm not sure the added server overhead would be worth the effort, not to mention whether the servers have the spare capacity to handle the added overhead.

Ofcourse, this is just theorizing and I could be far off base, but that's what I think of the 'radar should be line of sight' request. I'm for the gameplay effect, but I think there might be technical reasons not to.

[Skpstr]

7 minutes ago, cthuhulu said:

I have see plenty of games lost in the first 5 minutes.

If a team loses in 5 minutes, it's not necessarily because the winning team was overly good, but because the losing team was overly bad. It wouldn't have mattered much what they did.

One thing I'm seeing a lot of is, game starts, we have 4 DDs. I go to a cap, to play some cat-and-mouse. At about 4-5 minutes, my support is in a good spot, I've let any enemy DDs know that they aren't just going to light me up and see me insta-deleted, and I'm ready to cap in earnest. A couple minutes later, we have the cap, we're just running clean up on any remaining enemies, and........ I'm the only DD left on our team, while the enemy has 2-3.

I mean, I'm doing ok learning DDs, but I'm pretty much a newb at them.

Although possible, it's highly unlikely that I can step up enough.

Although I did have a great Akatsuki match at lunchtime. We were down 3 DDs to 2, (but our other DD was off chasing sniping BBs) and the enemy Minsk and 2 Akizukis, about 1-2 minutes apart, tried to smoke up and shoot me when I got spotted. Torped and sank the Minsk, then almost killed the first Akizuki the same way, except he bolted and I had to finish him with gunfire. (that exchange took me from 100% to 20% lol) I was down to a few hundred HP, and the last Aki, instead of trying to chase me, smoked up, as did I. We both sent torps at the smoke, I just wasn't in mine.....

No way can I pull that off on a regular basis lol.

[dechion]

7 minutes ago, Lert said:

Honestly, while I can see the merit of such a change, there is a technical aspect to consider. The current system simply changes the guaranteed detection radius from 2km to <radar> km for <duration> seconds. Very easy to code and low overhead on the server. Adding line of sight will just add a lot of complications, and while I'm sure WG programmers can make it work, I'm not sure the added server overhead would be worth the effort, not to mention whether the servers have the spare capacity to handle the added overhead.

Ofcourse, this is just theorizing and I could be far off base, but that's what I think of the 'radar should be line of sight' request. I'm for the gameplay effect, but I think there might be technical reasons not to.

That makes perfect sense. I don't know how they have things coded on the back end or how difficult it would be.

I'll rephrase it to "radar should be line of sight, if that is feasible within the limitations of the program and game engine."

[Skpstr]

44 minutes ago, Final8ty said:

That's why you play Cruiser 39%  Battleship 24% Destroyer 20% Aircraft Carrier 17% of the time.

 

I have even a smaller proportion of DD games, but some things you learn pretty quick, like getting too far ahead of yourself gets you killed for nothing.

Pretty much every time I commit to a cap right off the bat, as opposed to tickling it, or focussing on spotting, I'm back to port before I've done anything useful.

[Gavroche_]

6 minutes ago, Lert said:

Honestly, while I can see the merit of such a change, there is a technical aspect to consider. The current system simply changes the guaranteed detection radius from 2km to <radar> km for <duration> seconds. Very easy to code and low overhead on the server. Adding line of sight will just add a lot of complications, and while I'm sure WG programmers can make it work, I'm not sure the added server overhead would be worth the effort, not to mention whether the servers have the spare capacity to handle the added overhead.

Ofcourse, this is just theorizing and I could be far off base, but that's what I think of the 'radar should be line of sight' request. I'm for the gameplay effect, but I think there might be technical reasons not to.

The game already makes line-of-sight checks for all the other spotting in the game, except hydro, so I don’t think it would be that difficult to do it for radar. I think it’s just that RN the game is so entrenched in the current radar system that it would be foolish to do something that drastic. 

Imagine all the positions people would need to relearn, the clan war meta that would need to be rebuilt, the number of ships that would need to be rebalanced.... *shudder*

[Lert]

1 minute ago, Gavroche_ said:

The game already makes line-of-sight checks for all the other spotting in the game, except hydro, so I don’t think it would be that difficult to do it for radar. I think it’s just that RN the game is so entrenched in the current radar system that it would be foolish to do something that drastic. 

Imagine all the positions people would need to relearn, the clan war meta that would need to be rebuilt, the number of ships that would need to be rebalanced.... *shudder*

Kinda like reworking the entire CV meta.

[Gavroche_]

Just now, Lert said:

Kinda like reworking the entire CV meta.

*shudders*

[pyantoryng]

54 minutes ago, 1nv4d3rZ1m said:

That moment when you are capping in a CL because the only DD that decided go the same direction is sliding down the map border.

Said DD is a gunboat spec Tashkent