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_HatTrick_

Grozovoi with AA build game results (Current PTS build)

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There have actually been a good deal of people (for the PTS) online today so I decided to try out the DD with the strongest anti-air capability, the Grozovoi with a heavy AA build.  Here are my ship mods:

  • Main Armament Modification I
  • Propulsion Modification I
  • AA Guns Modification I
  • Propulsion Modification II
  • Target Acquisition Modification I
  • AA Guns Modification II

And the ship captain skills:

  • Priority Target
  • Adrenaline Rush
  • Last Stand
  • Basics of Survivability
  • Basic Firing Training
  • Advanced Firing Training

The opposing CV was a Hakuryu and seemed to be a decently skilled player.  I did not ask them to focus on me or anything like that but he was operating on my side of the map for most of the game.  Here are the end of game results:

 

shot-19.01.13_14.46.12-0438.jpg

shot-19.01.13_14.46.21-0134.jpg

shot-19.01.13_14.46.56-0442.jpg

As you can see, I shot down 21 planes and even though I was AA spec, I had a pretty solid game for damage (against bots of course).  I definitely could see the difference when using DFAA vs. not using it and I even played around with the manual controls a bit where in the past I have ignored that.  I felt like the ship acquitted itself well and was definitely a threat to the planes.  I was struck by one air dropped torpedo but it was basically a stray round that I didn't see because I had blinders on in sniper mode because the CV was attacking another ship.

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But you died. 

1 Game doesnt mean anything in the law of averages.

This CV rework will kill DD population. 

Edited by Anime_Is_Degeneracy
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On 1/13/2019 at 3:07 PM, _HatTrick_ said:

There have actually been a good deal of people (for the PTS) online today so I decided to try out the DD with the strongest anti-air capability, the Grozovoi with a heavy AA build.  Here are my ship mods:

  • Main Armament Modification I
  • Propulsion Modification I
  • AA Guns Modification I
  • Propulsion Modification II
  • Target Acquisition Modification I
  • AA Guns Modification II

And the ship captain skills:

  • Priority Target
  • Adrenaline Rush
  • Last Stand
  • Basics of Survivability
  • Basic Firing Training
  • Advanced Firing Training

The opposing CV was a Hakuryu and seemed to be a decently skilled player.  I did not ask them to focus on me or anything like that but he was operating on my side of the map for most of the game.  Here are the end of game results:

 

shot-19.01.13_14.46.12-0438.jpg

shot-19.01.13_14.46.21-0134.jpg

shot-19.01.13_14.46.56-0442.jpg

As you can see, I shot down 21 planes and even though I was AA spec, I had a pretty solid game for damage (against bots of course).  I definitely could see the difference when using DFAA vs. not using it and I even played around with the manual controls a bit where in the past I have ignored that.  I felt like the ship acquitted itself well and was definitely a threat to the planes.  I was struck by one air dropped torpedo but it was basically a stray round that I didn't see because I had blinders on in sniper mode because the CV was attacking another ship.

 

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Player cv can totally avoid flak. CV won't lose planes. It would be a great outcry and WG will buff AA to such a level that CV play will die off. For the good of the game to be honest.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Anime_Is_Degeneracy said:

But you died. 

1 Game doesnt mean anything in the law of averages.

This CV rework will kill DD population. 

I died to a Henri because I was one of the last 2 left alive on my side.  The enemy CV only did 8.8k to me with rockets and 6.3k with a torpedo which as I mentioned in the OP only hit me because I wasn't paying attention.  He tried several times to torp me earlier but you may as well piss in the wind as try to hit a DD with Japanese TBs in the rework. 

You however completely missed the point of the post which was to show what a Grozovoi fully specced out for AA is capable of in this latest build.  It's no joke and enemy CVs will pay for it if they choose to try and attack it.  Notice that I shot down more planes than any other ship in the whole game including the carriers using their fighter consumables.

 

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2 hours ago, Kriechbaum said:

Player cv can totally avoid flak. CV won't lose planes. It would be a great outcry and WG will buff AA to such a level that CV play will die off. For the good of the game to be honest.

 

 

I can tell you haven't tried it.  At all.  There are plenty of flak bursts you can not avoid,  plain and simple.  CV's are going to bleed planes even at low tiers now.

But considering you're one of the "CVS NEED TO GO!" crowd I don't expect you to actually listen OR test anything.

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2 minutes ago, Palladia said:

I can tell you haven't tried it.  At all.  There are plenty of flak bursts you can not avoid,  plain and simple.  CV's are going to bleed planes even at low tiers now.

But considering you're one of the "CVS NEED TO GO!" crowd I don't expect you to actually listen OR test anything.

I can tell you have no clue and can't even play arcade. Ok fine, let me demonstrate for you:

 

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AA range-specced Groz can be pure terror to CVs that don't take you into account

K1TKNnz.jpg

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Still looking forward to the rework... still bringing my dds to the table... still in no way convinced the rework is worse than the current state of cvs... which has not made dds vanish...

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8 hours ago, FrodoFraggin said:

Not to nitpick, but BoS over SE for a DD?

LOL, it's fine and a valid point.  I went to double check my actual selection but PTS seems to be down again now so I can't.  I'm guessing though that was just me putting the wrong name of the skill there because SE was definitely the skill I wanted there.

edit:  I got thinking about it more, and I think I may have opted for BoS over SE to deal with fires caused by rockets.  The rockets themselves don't do a lot of damage but they have a very high likelihood of causing a fire.  I do run SE on my Russian DDs on live though.

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6 hours ago, Kriechbaum said:

I can tell you have no clue and can't even play arcade. Ok fine, let me demonstrate for you:

 

I don't have time to watch this whole thing right now but I did watch the first 2:30 of it where he's talking about how easy it is to dodge the flak.  What I immediately noticed is that yeah, he'd dodged a lot of flak but he'd also dodged a lot of damage done.  He only had hit with 1 attack out of 5 attempts and had 2500 damage done after using most of 2 squadrons.  If you want to hit stuff, especially with torpedoes, you're going to have to fly straight for awhile.  The other thing I noticed is that he is hanging out on the periphery of the opposing formation where the flak is lightest.  That's fine but your target selection is limited there. 

It's becoming more and more obvious that Notser's videos are being made from the position of advocating for something and not just impartially reporting on things which is fine and all, but come right out and say it instead of trying to pretend you're being impartial.

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6 hours ago, Kriechbaum said:

I can tell you have no clue and can't even play arcade. Ok fine, let me demonstrate for you:

 

 

Game Summary

  • Notser Lost 38 non-fighter planes attacking mostly single isolated ships controlled by bots using stock ships, no captain skills, no sector control, and no dodging. https://youtu.be/sw9HipuVkQ0?t=978

  • No ship used a fighter consumable against Noster, they can nuke entire squadrons. Alot of Montanas...

  • Notser finished the game down 17% of his planes. Even in the above mentioned extremely biased scenario he was still losing planes significantly faster than he replenished them. This would be infinitely worse vs players.

  • Flak is not balanced around bots and single isolated ships not spec'd for AA, it ramps up greatly with 2/3 ships next to each other. You don't need to ultra blob, just 2/3 ships nearby each other with at least 1 being a CL or BB is scary to deal with as a CV.

  • He went near the Zao once and got rekt, losing the entire squadron. He then avoided it for the rest of the match. A stock bot controlled Zhao with no commander skills or sector control.

  • Out of 12 runs Notser attacked solo isolated ships 8 times and ships with supporting fire 4 times.

  • Notser avoids alot of flak on initial approach vs most isolated targets, he's almost always nailed when flying away or turning for 2nd attack. Still cases where he got nailed on the initial approach though. When a second ship was involved he consistently took flak on both approach and retreat.

Using that video as "evidence" is a fool's errand.

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I tried Grozovoi on the PTS because i have one on the live server, so I specced one the same way i have now, AA mod1, AA mod2, BFT and AA flag. Player only two games against CV, the one against a Lexington was a massacre against the planes, was killing the whole squadron without evento using DFAA, only reinforcing sector. Against tier 10 CV didnt kill Manu because CV was avoiding me, but what i can say It that a Hakuryu hás to be Very Lucky to hit a DD with torps due to the long distance arming of its torps. It tried to Cross drop without any Luck, the torps only passes without hit me, his aim was good though.

Another Very strong DD against CV even without DFAA is the Harugumo. With Full Spec AA is the same level as Grozovoi, have seen games with It killing 22 planes.

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1 hour ago, _HatTrick_ said:

It's becoming more and more obvious that Notser's videos are being made from the position of advocating for something and not just impartially reporting on things which is fine and all, but come right out and say it instead of trying to pretend you're being impartial.

I was beginning to wonder that myself.   I hope not because I really like his content.  I also don't want this new CV rework to ruin my gameplay experience so I'm rooting for it to be successful.

Edited by Captain_Slattery

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So when this garbage goes live I have to Respec all my DVDs for AA module, BFT and AFT? I can't run torpedo reload booster or survivability expert if I have 2 spec every DD exactly the same way to survive the Sky Artillery.

That sounds super fun and engaging. 

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8 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

So when this garbage goes live I have to Respec all my DVDs for AA module, BFT and AFT? I can't run torpedo reload booster or survivability expert if I have 2 spec every DD exactly the same way to survive the Sky Artillery.

That sounds super fun and engaging. 

Actually the only DD LINE i recommmend using AFT is the russian gunboat LINE, Minsk to Khaba. Every other DD should use BFT plus AAmod1 and AA flag. Some DD are better not even bother with respecc, doesnt matter what u put there It is AA Will stil be garbage, examples: Asashio, Cossack.

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25 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

So when this garbage goes live I have to Respec all my DVDs for AA module, BFT and AFT? I can't run torpedo reload booster or survivability expert if I have 2 spec every DD exactly the same way to survive the Sky Artillery.

That sounds super fun and engaging. 

As long as your rudder works you mostly need to worry about the rockets, and those do chip damage. You’ll be in more danger from getting spotted than from plane strikes themselves. Don’t drive straight and you’ll have time to get under a friendly AA umbrella. 

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8 hours ago, Kriechbaum said:

I can tell you have no clue and can't even play arcade. Ok fine, let me demonstrate for you:

 

Most of the ships in this video are bots with no AA specs and not using defensive fire. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Cobraclutch said:

Most of the ships in this video are bots with no AA specs and not using defensive fire. 

 

"B-But it's a CC video!!! CC videos are irrefutable truth!!!"

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I question if BFT is worth it on a DD. I will admit I never tested RU DDs but I did test USN ones for AA and as I recall none of them had consistent AA greater than double digits (compared to everything else having as high as ~700). A +10% boost to like 50 DPS AA I think is a waste of 3 points on a captain. Especially when the squadron at T10 has like 30-40k+ HP, an extra 5 DPS AA is worthless.

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On 1/13/2019 at 3:07 PM, _HatTrick_ said:

 

How well did your AA groz do vs rocket attacks? 

My biggest concern is that DD life can sometimes play out at low health and these rocket attacks look like a perfect counter to a DD with 5-7k HP left. Curious to know how well a full AA build would prevent that?

 

Thx 

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2 hours ago, RyuuohD_NA said:

 

Game Summary

  • Notser Lost 38 non-fighter planes attacking mostly single isolated ships controlled by bots using stock ships, no captain skills, no sector control, and no dodging. https://youtu.be/sw9HipuVkQ0?t=978

  • No ship used a fighter consumable against Noster, they can nuke entire squadrons. Alot of Montanas...

  • Notser finished the game down 17% of his planes. Even in the above mentioned extremely biased scenario he was still losing planes significantly faster than he replenished them. This would be infinitely worse vs players.

  • Flak is not balanced around bots and single isolated ships not spec'd for AA, it ramps up greatly with 2/3 ships next to each other. You don't need to ultra blob, just 2/3 ships nearby each other with at least 1 being a CL or BB is scary to deal with as a CV.

  • He went near the Zao once and got rekt, losing the entire squadron. He then avoided it for the rest of the match. A stock bot controlled Zhao with no commander skills or sector control.

  • Out of 12 runs Notser attacked solo isolated ships 8 times and ships with supporting fire 4 times.

  • Notser avoids alot of flak on initial approach vs most isolated targets, he's almost always nailed when flying away or turning for 2nd attack. Still cases where he got nailed on the initial approach though. When a second ship was involved he consistently took flak on both approach and retreat.

Using that video as "evidence" is a fool's errand.

This! The new AA is no joke. Sure you can avoid most of the flak against isolated stock bot ships as he showed, but at the expense of most of your damage potential and you are still not immune. This is not some magical way to be immune from losing planes and reliably doing damage across the board in the new system. Every video of his sure makes it seem like he wants to be able to have pure immunity from CVs without actually saying it. In his last cruiser AA video he blows entire attack squads out of the sky, over 40 planes, but still says it's not good enough. 

Losing planes is more punishing in the PST than in live. Taking into account the replenishment time of planes you effectively have less planes to field in a 20min match...up to 20% less in some cases and that with the extra on deck aircraft captain skill.

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10 minutes ago, Cobraclutch said:

How well did your AA groz do vs rocket attacks? 

My biggest concern is that DD life can sometimes play out at low health and these rocket attacks look like a perfect counter to a DD with 5-7k HP left. Curious to know how well a full AA build would prevent that?

 

Thx 

Well if you look at the screenshots you can see he did a total of 8868 to me with rockets and 84 from fire (may or may not have been from rockets, I don't remember) and he did not kill me even though he was trying to at the end.  Out of 29,713 damage received, artillery was far and away the biggest single source at 14,436.

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7 minutes ago, Cobraclutch said:

How well did your AA groz do vs rocket attacks? 

My biggest concern is that DD life can sometimes play out at low health and these rocket attacks look like a perfect counter to a DD with 5-7k HP left. Curious to know how well a full AA build would prevent that?

 

Thx 

During my testing if my planes were the only thing spotting the DD it would go back to concealment turning out to get the distance to line up a rocket attack and I had to guess where he was going to be. If I guessed wrong and had to adjust the approach more than just a couple of degrees then the dispersion was so large I was lucky to land a rocket or two. The rocket planes are fast and have a fairly long lead on them before they release. Now if something else is spotting you then, yeah, you might be in trouble.

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