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i9awn

Friend quitting over torpedo hacks

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I always drag him back to the game; he plays for a week or two at most and then quits because of this mod. Been happening for years now. I understand him; he only plays japanese dd and he doesn't care much about winning/losing. And before you start saying "oh he must be mistaken" well he's not. He has a lot of games and he honestly admits that he rarely capture one red handed but that's enough to kill the mood because when you catch one, what about the ones who are a bit more cautious about it? He doesn't complain about torpedoes missing, he rarely get hits and that's fine with him it's not a big disappointment when torpedoes miss; it's rather expected but when you catch someone red handed it's just a disgusting feeling. What I have been doing? What am I doing here? Entertaining the masses? It's just sad. Now what is red handed? It's simple: game is practically over; some BB in middle of nowhere is sailing in a straight line to nowhere doing nothing since the beginning of the game; friend stalks him for a few minutes in which he never change coarse. Now my friend never expected to have any torps launched to hit; he was just there on whim just stalking the guy to throw some torps just for chills before the game is over. The second he launches torps the guy practically starts doing a U-turn. Similar events occur probably a couple of times every week. If you notice in these situations there is not much impact; so this is not about feeling pissed because of a missed game or a missed torp it's the realization that you've been made a clown by this mod  to god knows how many players that use it.

Personally I quit many games because of hacking. I had to quite BF3 my favorite shooter because the hacking was all over the place. I can't blame him especially that this has been happening for years now. He admits it's much better than before, last year when played he used to catch multiple hackers every day but it's still there even now and that's enough to ruin the spirit of the game. It's time Wows did something to the engine to prevent this mod/hack.  It's not that game changing for skilled players, but it's a hack nonetheless and it's not fair and it feels like being abused, being taken advantage of and duped.  It's not about the torpedoes since frankly if you have few brain cells you should avoid them but nonetheless it's a game spirit killer.

Now honestly, wouldn't you guys want an engine change that prevent this mod from being possible from the first place? Why aren't people complaining about it? I barely play the game and I'm complaining how come no one complains about it? Am I the exception of being concerned with this? What happened to the gaming ethics?

 

Edit: It seems many have not read the full post. This is not about someone moving early from torps it's about someone on your right turning for no reason just at the same moment torps are launched on someone else on the other side ... there is no "target flicker" cause the ship was not even targeted but it seems like it had a "torpedo launch detected" notification or something. Now I admit such hack is trivial and maybe not even that impactful but still, it's a hack. We know hacks exist, so it's sound to suspect one. What's worse than the hack is knowing there are hacks out there that poison this game. And who knows what other hacks are out there? Everyone dismisses it and for this very reason I'm even more suspicious; even the biggest games had hacks whether server side exploits or client side exploits and yet we don't' really hear much about WoWs when it comes to ban waves or such. It is exactly this what makes it even more suspicious.

Edited by i9awn
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The moment he launched torps and the BB did a U-turn, I'm betting the BB was watching his priority target go down a number while knowing a destroyer was stalking him. That 1 point skill has a lot of advantages. I also use it against enemies too as I got into the habit of deselecting targets that I am stalking, I get more broadside shots when they don't know I am targeting them.

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4 minutes ago, DouglasMacAwful said:

Negative experience due to hacking odds: 0.2%

Negative experience due to not understanding game mechanics odds: 99.8%

The only negative experience is the hacking odds. 

2 minutes ago, WinterSoIdier said:

The moment he launched torps and the BB did a U-turn, I'm betting the BB was watching his priority target go down a number while knowing a destroyer was stalking him. That 1 point skill has a lot of advantages. I also use it against enemies too as I got into the habit of deselecting targets that I am stalking, I get more broadside shots when they don't know I am targeting them.

The funny thing is that he wasn't aiming at him, he  was aiming at another BB  that showed up and he actually torpedoed the other BB and but they both turned which made him laugh and uninstall the game. The more important clue is that my friend knows how to torp; he will be in torp mod for a several minutes before he actually launches the torps and doesn't leave the torp mod as he rarely need to in his japanese dd. He just sails in his torps aiming mod mostly. See why this is frustrating? The hacks are real and all we get is people trying to ignore it.

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2 minutes ago, i9awn said:

The only negative experience is the hacking odds. 

The funny thing is that he wasn't aiming at him, he  was aiming at another BB  that showed up and he actually torpedoed the other BB and but they both turned which made him laugh and uninstall the game. The more important clue is that my friend knows how to torp; he will be in torp mod for a several minutes before he actually launches the torps and doesn't leave the torp mod as he rarely need to in his japanese dd. He just sails in his torps aiming mod mostly. See why this is frustrating? The hacks are real and all we get is people trying to ignore it.

There are trolls here that deny there are aim-hacks in this game.  Don't let them bother you.

These hacks are REAL.  People will get caught and banned for using them.

I invite you to search the YouTube videos and search for what this battleship operator will be seeing if he is using this hack.

It is against Forum Rules for me to describe it here.

These hacks are real.  If you or your friend have the chance to try one, DON'T.

If you see suspicious behavior, report it with a replay file.  If you don't have that, then just report the user.  At the least, it'll put the offender on the radar screen to be examined closer.

I think there should be an in-game 'report for unrealistic behavior' button.

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7 minutes ago, i9awn said:

The only negative experience is the hacking odds. 

WG is able to detect hacks.  Its anti-hacking system is so... robust... it sometimes bans some people for using its own approved mods. 

There are few to no wows hacks.  Your friend, and apparently yourself, just don't understand the game mechanics fully. 

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If a simple thing like missing with torpedoes causes a person to cry "hack" and uninstall the game then they have got a lot of growing up to do. There are going to be thousands of things that happen in life that are not easily explainable at first glance. The best thing to do is to learn to analyze confusing situations and come up with solutions to their problems rather than just giving up.

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23 minutes ago, DouglasMacAwful said:

Negative experience due to hacking odds: 0.2%

Negative experience due to not understanding game mechanics odds: 99.8%

The hacking odds are a tad bit high

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Look, I suppose it is theoretically possible for it to be a hack. But the chances of that are vanishingly small. 0.2 per cent sounds orders of magnitude too high. 

To me, far more likely scenarios are:

1) Battleship, that has been spotted for a while, sees the Priority Target indicator flicker, which suggests torp launch by unseen DD. Begin WASD hacks (ie, turn). 

2) Battleship, saw torps fired at/kill a teammate, starts counting reload in head. Late game, with few or one enemy DD alive, remains spotted without seeing who is spotting them, assumes DD. Drives in straight line to look like a stupid scrub, but once feels like reload should be over, starts turning. I do this from time to time, but really only works late game. And when I mis-judge the time, it’s totes awkward dying like a nooblord - at which time I just point to my username...

3) Battleship, having been spotted for a while, is watching enemy battleship. Sees incoming shells fired at him every 30 seconds, makes turns to dodge. Doesn’t notice DD torps at all. 

 

If your friend thinks these mods are so available, why not install them himself and drive BBs with impunity? 

When I play DDs, I get irked why my targets turn for no apparent reason. But I also make turns when I feel like I have been driving straight too long - particularly when I am spotted and I shouldn’t be. 

But yeah, a conspiracy theory fits better. 

Why not report offenders to WG via the support ticket system - take some practical action instead of quitting...

Edited by UltimateNewbie
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Man after tier 6, torps are not even a factor...

 

The min issue here is,

  1. THere is no hacks
  2. There is a very good anti-Hack system in place
  3. IF someone is easily triggered then its time for a break. OR depart
  4.  ASWD hacks are the only hacks approved by WOWS and it works very well

I wish you guys well... This game is not for everyone. Oh well

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Never heard of this hack.  Never saw any play that suggested this hack.  But hey, if this is happening all the time to your friend, send a ticked and replay to WOWS.  Pretty simple to do.  

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51 minutes ago, i9awn said:

Now honestly, wouldn't you guys want an engine change that prevent this mod from being possible from the first place?

Of course we do. This is why this game has one. The player doesn't find out about a torpedo launch and direction unless the WG game server specifically communicates that information to the game client (i.e. after a friendly ship or an airplane spots them).

So, let's look at the possible explanations of the phenomenon you described in the original post:

(1) A good guess on the part of the BB player, based on the tactical situation

(2) Just bad luck (BB player decided to turn away just because)

(3) Confirmation bias on the part of your friend (I'm willing to bet he/she won't have replays that show this sort of thing happening couple times a week for the past month)

(4) Some hacker compromised WG servers, i.e. committed a felony for the pleasure of annoying newbie DD players.

 

Take a wild guess, which one of these four hypotheses I consider least probable.

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10 minutes ago, UltimateNewbie said:

Look, I suppose it is theoretically possible for it to be a hack. But the chances of that are vanishingly small. 0.2 per cent sounds orders of magnitude too high. 

To me, far more likely scenarios are:

1) Battleship, that has been spotted for a while, sees the Priority Target indicator flicker, which suggests torp launch by unseen DD. Begin WASD hacks (ie, turn). 

2) Battleship, saw torps fired at/kill a teammate, starts counting reload in head. Late game, with few or one enemy DD alive, remains spotted without seeing who is spotting them, assumes DD. Drives in straight line to look like a stupid scrub, but once feels like reload should be over, starts turning. I do this from time to time, but really only works late game. And when I mis-judge the time, it’s totes awkward dying like a nooblord - at which time I just point to my username...

3) Battleship, having been spotted for a while, is watching enemy battleship. Sees incoming shells fired at him every 30 seconds, makes turns to dodge. Doesn’t notice DD torps at all. 

 

If your friend thinks these mods are so available, why not install them himself and drive BBs with impunity? 

When I play DDs, I get irked why my targets turn for no apparent reason. But I also make turns when I feel like I have been driving straight too long - particularly when I am spotted and I shouldn’t be. 

But yeah, a conspiracy theory fits better. 

Why not report offenders to WG via the support ticket system - take some practical action instead of quitting...

I won't argue anymore but I would like to point out that all these  scenarios are impossible. There is no "flicker"; as I said my friend is always in torp mod, he almost never leaves it because he doesn't use his guns. The game was over; there was no countdown, my friend held his torp for so long just because he was really chill and the game is over and just wanted to basically chase that BB for fun, you can't really get torps on a BB that knows it's being chased so he wasn't expecting much but seeing the hack red handed was too much. There was no other enemy ships around, it was over in the middle of nowhere  with no shots so plz don't try to find excuses. The guy doesn't come everyday and says there are hacks he admits rarely sees them anymore (it was much worse last year) but seeing and knowing that there are hacks is just a big turn off. I'm tired of people denying it; you're not helping. A simple engine fix would eliminate this.

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This isn't hacking, just bad timing on his part. Every battleship player who doesn't whine on a regular basis (and even some who do) knows that the best way to avoid torps, or at least not get caught by a full spread like an idiot, is to turn port or starboard at various intervals, especially when they know a DD is in the area or they're lit by Priority Target but nothing's shooting them. It's a sad truth that DD players have to live with. Me, I find firing the occasional area denial spread works wonders for occasionally killing an enemy. I can't count the number of times myself or an unspotted DD has stumbled into a bunch of torps and gotten blown out of the water.

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51 minutes ago, i9awn said:

some BB in middle of nowhere is sailing in a straight line to nowhere doing nothing since the beginning of the game; friend stalks him for a few minutes in which he never change coarse. Now my friend never expected to have any torps launched to hit; he was just there on whim just stalking the guy to throw some torps just for chills before the game is over. The second he launches torps the guy practically starts doing a U-turn.

Was this in Co-op? Because this sounds like bot behavior when human players launch torps.

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IJN DD that never uses guns... How sad.  They really are quite good.  

 

Also those battleships might be crazy and actually be running vigilance.  And/or TASM both which increase the spotting duration of torpedoes.  And.. 

 

Everyone knows IJN Torps are the stealthiest weapons

I have the German captain that has improved vigilance on my Cruisers.  The detection range for torps is absolutely ludicrous.  Or your friend from your example both BBs noticed they were going to run into each other and then turned away.  Definitely must be torpedo detection h4x

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29 minutes ago, UltimateNewbie said:

Look, I suppose it is theoretically possible for it to be a hack. But the chances of that are vanishingly small. 0.2 per cent sounds orders of magnitude too high. 

To me, far more likely scenarios are:

1) Battleship, that has been spotted for a while, sees the Priority Target indicator flicker, which suggests torp launch by unseen DD. Begin WASD hacks (ie, turn). 

2) Battleship, saw torps fired at/kill a teammate, starts counting reload in head. Late game, with few or one enemy DD alive, remains spotted without seeing who is spotting them, assumes DD. Drives in straight line to look like a stupid scrub, but once feels like reload should be over, starts turning. I do this from time to time, but really only works late game. And when I mis-judge the time, it’s totes awkward dying like a nooblord - at which time I just point to my username...

3) Battleship, having been spotted for a while, is watching enemy battleship. Sees incoming shells fired at him every 30 seconds, makes turns to dodge. Doesn’t notice DD torps at all. 

 

If your friend thinks these mods are so available, why not install them himself and drive BBs with impunity? 

When I play DDs, I get irked why my targets turn for no apparent reason. But I also make turns when I feel like I have been driving straight too long - particularly when I am spotted and I shouldn’t be. 

But yeah, a conspiracy theory fits better. 

Why not report offenders to WG via the support ticket system - take some practical action instead of quitting...

Very much this. I know the DDs and the minimum time in between torp reloads. I pay attention, and have a counter in the back of my mind. I start to turn as the counter hits about 5 seconds. DD fires torps, I'm already turning, torps miss wide. I don't take torps often, and this is why. When I do take torps, it's because it's close quarters, and my attention is divided, and my reaction time to multiple threats isn't good. Even then, I very rarely get devstruck.

 

The best way to get torp hits is to fire at distracted targets, and to use predictive torps, ie: Fire them at places you know red ships will be by the time they get there, fire at places you know red ships go, choke points. Surprise butttorps are the best torps.

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So far the argument is that there is no hacks because it's impossible because WG said so. Well I don't believe it; it's just marketing to say this game is immune to hack. Then why do people get banned if hacking is impossible? Plz spare me the trolling.

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Put up a replay file to show some evidence. That's the only way we can see for ourselves and maybe offer an explanation. Otherwise we have nothing more than your claims, and those claims mean very little without anything to back it.

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What was described was the target changes course the moment they are fired... after sailing a straight course for a long time. 

Bots don't do that.

Hack users WILL.  Yes, this is a definite sign.

And again, I can't describe how this works, or what this looks like (violation), but I can definitely tell you it is absolutely indicative of a hack user.

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17 minutes ago, Xeilin said:

IJN DD that never uses guns... How sad.  They really are quite good.  

 

Indeed, often ive done more gun damage in my Akasuki than torp damage. Let him quit then if he's such a special little snowflake that he cant take torps missing for whatever reason. I personally find i use mine on a lot of the longer range ships as area denial weapons ~ i never full expect to hit unless im at short range and then its nice when a wild sea mine gets a hit.

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25 minutes ago, i9awn said:

I won't argue anymore but I would like to point out that all these  scenarios are impossible. Lolwat? There is no "flicker";  Doesn't matter if you're in gun mode or torp mode, the moment you target a ship, and if they have Priority Target, they will know they are being targeted. as I said my friend is always in torp mod, he almost never leaves it because he doesn't use his guns.He should use his guns. The game was over; there was no countdown, my friend held his torp for so long just because he was really chill and the game is over and just wanted to basically chase that BB for fun, you can't really get torps on a BB that knows it's being chased so he wasn't expecting much but seeing the hack red handed was too much. So in short, DD stalks BB, BB knows because detected, BB turns. Please show us actual proof of the "hack" There was no other enemy ships around, it was over in the middle of nowhere  with no shots so plz don't try to find excuses. Being bad at the game = enemies are hacking The guy doesn't come everyday and says there are hacks he admits rarely sees them anymore (it was much worse last year) but seeing and knowing that there are hacks is just a big turn off. I'm tired of people denying it; you're not helping.Show us actual evidence and we *might* believe you. A simple engine fix would eliminate this. So you're an expert programmer now, are you?

See bold.

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Sure, hacks exist. They might be more or less common then most people think. We have no way of knowing that information. 

However, the only known hacks base their code off of things available to a player's client. I.E, showing where visible shells are going to land, providing an aim assist—basically, displaying information on the screen beyond that which an average player would have at their disposal. There is also a known torpedo hack. However, I promise you it is not something so useful as knowing when and where a set of torpedoes have been launched. I said that the hacks only use information available to the player's client, and this is the important distinction.

Let's run a quick scenario, shall we?  

Player A launches presses the button to launch his torpedoes. This action is communicated to WG's servers, which hosts the match. Player A observes the torpedoes being launched a few milliseconds later, as the server creates instances of them. These instances are indicated by the white triangles on Player A's monitor, moving in whichever direction he launched them. They continue on their merry way, until such a time as they are spotted by an enemy Player B's ship or plane. At this moment, and not any second before, information about the incoming torpedoes is shared with Player B's computer from WG's server. 

This is why the hack you are suggesting is unfeasible, as all known hacks to date can only use information available on a person's computer over the course of a match. To have knowledge of a torpedo salvo before it is spotted on their end, they would have to have broken into WG's servers and modified the live data there, which is probably a movie worthy feat. The existing torpedo hacks can only take spotted torpedoes and extend a line in front of them, showing where they will be in 10~15 seconds.  

The long and short of it is, there is very little chance of actual hacking being involved in your friend's frustrations. Yes, hacks do exist in WoWs. Yes, they are bad, and people who use them are summarily banned. But the one you are describing doesn't exist, beyond a shadow of a doubt—unless there are a number of god-like hackers roaming the oceans of our little game.
More likely, battleship drivers are getting lucky, smart, or simply bored of sailing in a straight line. I hope your friend isn't put off playing the game, and recommend watching some Youtube videos of other players in DDs, and seeing how they handle things. It might provide some enlightenment or something; you never know. 

Edited by RivertheRoyal
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This is sounds like a player that accused my div mate of hacking for launching 3 spreads of torps at his stationary North Carolina. Said div mate was in a Shimakaze, which has, you guessed it, 3 torp launchers... some people are astonishingly bad at this game, and will seek to blame others for hacking when they just cannot understand basic game mechanics.

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