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Why are people fixated on win rate? *bit of a rant*

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Earlier I was in Operation RR and I called out a cruiser for being out of position.  The Raptor was nearly to the final circle, we had three enemy battleships coming up from the south, and our sole remaining light cruiser was north of the enemy carrier spot.  We ended up only getting three stars because no one got to the final circle first.  I was trying but got killed in my Pensacola by the enemy BBs at point blank range because all three of our BBs were no where near the Raptor.  In fact, one BB was trying to sail around the island to get to the final circle and didn't even have shots on the last BB.

Anyway, I called out the light cruiser for being too far away and not going for the circle and he tried to throw out that my 48% win rate means I have no clue how the operation is played.

Yeah, it's low.  My Pensacola has a 43% win rate even though I have higher average damage and average frags than most of the people who play it.  It's a support ship and my first tier 6 and I learned a lot from it.  The rest of my tier 5 and 6 ships that I play regularly are at 50% or higher WR.  But even though I'm better in other ships I have a few that are dragging my WR down.

And I honestly don't care.  This is a team game and a heavy cruiser can only do so much once the match starts to turn bad.  Especially one with a citadel that sits above the waterline.

What I don't understand is why people feel that one stat can define a person's ability to understand a tactical situation.  Operation Raptor Rescue is a pain most of the time.  It requires a certain level of teamwork and sacrifice.  Far too many players would rather keep their ship afloat and watch the Raptor die than sacrifice their ship to protect the Raptor.  Yet somehow I don't know what I'm doing because my WR is low.

WoWS is no where near as bad as WoT about stat shaming, but it's still frustrating to see people play stupidly and then refuse to listen to advice because "your WR is low".  I try to listen to any advice thrown out in chat because there's always something new to learn.

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When the goal of the game is to win and you don’t win... I mean, I can go go on Web MD and diagnose you (43% wr) or have an RN take a look (56% wr) and  you tell me which one you’d listen to.

Edited by galspanic
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8 minutes ago, galspanic said:

When the goal of the game is to win and you don’t win... I mean, I can go go on Web MD and diagnose you (43% wr) or have an RN take a look (56% wr) and  you tell me which one you’d listen to.

There's a difference between randoms and operations. WR refers to your random matches. OP's point, if he didn't make it clear enough, was that just because he's not the best player around in PVP matches doesn't mean he doesn't understand how a particular operation is run and the criteria for winning it. If a certain condition for earning a star isn't being statisfied, and OP or any other player with a low WR voices that it needs to get done, why shouldn't they be listened to?

By the way, your WR is barely higher than OP's, and he actually has better stats than yours (PR) while having 5 times fewer games than you.

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If your WR is meaningfully below 50% with a large number of games, it means you are on average negatively affecting your team. The opposite is also true - if it's meaningfully above 50% you are on average positively affecting your team.

The Pensacola is one of the best cruisers for operations, too. It's AP is very powerful against the many cruisers who broadside.

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20 minutes ago, PinkoCommieScumbag said:

There's a difference between randoms and operations. WR refers to your random matches. OP's point, if he didn't make it clear enough, was that just because he's not the best player around in PVP matches doesn't mean he doesn't understand how a particular operation is run and the criteria for winning it. If a certain condition for earning a star isn't being statisfied, and OP or any other player with a low WR voices that it needs to get done, why shouldn't they be listened to?

By the way, your WR is barely higher than OP's, and he actually has better stats than yours (PR) while having 5 times fewer games than you.

Correct.  It’s why despite thinking I understand how to get the operations complete I keep my mouth shut- because I have a middling understanding of the game.

So, what do my poor stats have to do with it?  I wasn’t saying I know how to play the game better (I haven’t looked at my stats in over a year) but I know that win rates are a measure of how well you can win../

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Randoms winrate just shows a understanding of the game and how mechanics work.  A player who can sustain a 60+% winrate would almost assuredly have a better grasp on how to play the game than a player with a 45% winrate.  It isn't the be-all-end-all, but it's a pretty good indicator of game knowledge.  

It doesn't mean that much in ops though, and the dude who called you out on it was probably just going on a power trip.  

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Probably because this is not a game that requires good reflexes to do well in, generally the better you understand how everything works the better of stats you will have.

 

Doesn't mean you absolutely don't understand how RR works,but it wouldn't give me a good feeling going in as I find the cruiser play to be the most important part of a successful run.

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Because they have no other way to boost their fragile egos. This game is their only claim to anything positive. 

 

/s

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10 minutes ago, RevTKS said:

Because they have no other way to boost their fragile egos. This game is their only claim to anything positive. 

 

/s

if they can play this game and get a good stats, they can achieve a lot of things in their real life other than this game. 

 

vice versa

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Part of the problem is WR plays major part of many other games including World of Tanks. In tanks you can set yourself up in good hard cover, your armor can deflect a lot more damage than it seems to in WOWs, and in Tanks you can carry teams just be going excellent sniper for example. The fact that your hit ration in tanks can be a lot closer to 100% also helps.

Now you take the very nature of WOWs and things change, you have a lot more dispersion on Ammo you send at enemy targets, your amor rarely will be able to bounce continuous incoming fire like a tank could do, you are dealing with some maps that have 0 or close to 0 cover. You also throw in MM, sizes of teams, and RNG and WR being the main factor gets degraded.

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2 hours ago, ruar said:

Earlier I was in Operation RR and I called out a cruiser for being out of position.  The Raptor was nearly to the final circle, we had three enemy battleships coming up from the south, and our sole remaining light cruiser was north of the enemy carrier spot.  We ended up only getting three stars because no one got to the final circle first.  I was trying but got killed in my Pensacola by the enemy BBs at point blank range because all three of our BBs were no where near the Raptor.  In fact, one BB was trying to sail around the island to get to the final circle and didn't even have shots on the last BB.

Anyway, I called out the light cruiser for being too far away and not going for the circle and he tried to throw out that my 48% win rate means I have no clue how the operation is played.

Yeah, it's low.  My Pensacola has a 43% win rate even though I have higher average damage and average frags than most of the people who play it.  It's a support ship and my first tier 6 and I learned a lot from it.  The rest of my tier 5 and 6 ships that I play regularly are at 50% or higher WR.  But even though I'm better in other ships I have a few that are dragging my WR down.

And I honestly don't care.  This is a team game and a heavy cruiser can only do so much once the match starts to turn bad.  Especially one with a citadel that sits above the waterline.

What I don't understand is why people feel that one stat can define a person's ability to understand a tactical situation.  Operation Raptor Rescue is a pain most of the time.  It requires a certain level of teamwork and sacrifice.  Far too many players would rather keep their ship afloat and watch the Raptor die than sacrifice their ship to protect the Raptor.  Yet somehow I don't know what I'm doing because my WR is low.

WoWS is no where near as bad as WoT about stat shaming, but it's still frustrating to see people play stupidly and then refuse to listen to advice because "your WR is low".  I try to listen to any advice thrown out in chat because there's always something new to learn.

Because your winrate defines how much you influence a game.  ~40% of your games are going to be wins, even if you AFK.  ~40% of your games are going to be losses, no matter how well you play.  The last ~20% tells the tale of how much difference you make in the games you can make a difference. 

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Winrate is an excellent indicator of competence in a specific ship. It's also a marker of focus on winning instead of stat padding, which is most important in a mode with many exact victory conditions.

If someone has a 45% WR, they actively hurt their team's victory chance, and this problem is exacerbated with smaller teams (like those in ranked and Ops). Get more games in under your belt before doing ops, it's important to know the game first.

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I don't and never will judge other people about their WR, but I sure as hell care about my own -- because I like winning and big numbers.

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why are people fixated on win rate?

Simple. Because there are winners and there are losers.

It feels good to be a winner, and it feels bad to be a loser. People like to feel good. People don't like to feel bad.

 

 

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1 hour ago, flashcat said:

if they can play this game and get a good stats, they can achieve a lot of things in their real life other than this game. 

 

vice versa

One of the most nonsensical posts Ive seen in a couple days. Bravo.

OP, it’s mostly ego tripping. The best players don’t need to flaunt win rate. They go about the biz of kicking butts efficiently and might offer some advice ingame. I doubt unicorn’s care enough about lesser players to bother replying to something they perceived as unworthy. Regardless, don’t take it personally. You trying to be helpful says one thing. The other guy being a dbag in response says plenty about him.

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1 minute ago, Woofship said:

I don't and never will judge other people about their WR, but I sure as hell care about my own -- because I like winning and big numbers.

It's the only stat that matters to me, but I agree about not stat shaming. It's stupid. Plus I didn't like it when people did it to me. I was a 47 percenter for my first 800-1000 games, now I'm about 55, the only difference is knowledge. And while all stats have improved, this is the most telling by far.

I have to say when bad players (usually dead) tell me how to play it's annoying. So I try not to do that. I will ask people to support a push or mark a Target, but beyond that I just let people play. Either they know as much or more than me, or they will just not care anyway.

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23 minutes ago, pewpewpew42 said:

Winrate is an excellent indicator of competence in a specific ship. It's also a marker of focus on winning instead of stat padding, which is most important in a mode with many exact victory conditions.

If someone has a 45% WR, they actively hurt their team's victory chance, and this problem is exacerbated with smaller teams (like those in ranked and Ops). Get more games in under your belt before doing ops, it's important to know the game first.

I've actually learned more about shooting and adjusting fire from ops than I have from random battles.  Thanks, but I'll continue to play the ops that I enjoy.

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Needed in random to see who is good and who is not. 

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2 minutes ago, alex08060 said:

Needed in random to see who is good and who is not. 

Which is kind of my point... WR alone isn't a way to determine if a player is actually good or not.

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I tend to believe people get fixated on win rate because its a simple stat to judge another players performance either overall or in a specific ship.

Also, because actually sitting down and analyzing statistics is a b****, so just pick the easy number and roll with it.  Why put in effort?

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Win rate is note a definitive guide to a players value.  However, it is at least a good indicator of a players overall value to a team.  I generally ignore it and I never look up peoples stats when I play.  I honestly do not care about it and I do not care what people think about my stats.  If I was playing team battles or clan battles I think it would help a team or clan try to assemble the best group they could.  Random battles are so hit and miss that I do not think it matters.  The  only thing I watch is how that player does in the match where he is on my team.  IF he runs to corner and hides,  goes AFK, suicides or actions like that, then I will say something.  We have all had games where RNG screwed us or we zigged when we should have zagged and just get deleted early.  It happens.  Anyone who says it never happens to them is a liar.  So I generally overlook stuff like that, exit the battle and get in que and try my best on the next game.  It is a complete waste of time to stat shame another player on your team or set and be an a$$ in chat because you dislike a team mates play.  At the end of the day it is just a damn game.

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Most people don't understand how a win rate is calculated, or the factors that can influence it. A player with a 50% win rate sounds like a decent player, until you realize they've only played 100 games or so. That's much less impressive than a player with a 40% win rate and 500 games played. On top of that, few people seem to take into account that this is a heavily team reliant game. It doesn't matter how good you think you are, you're always at the mercy of your team. So win rate really doesn't matter all that much. That said, it can be somewhat of an indicator of how much you yourself influence the battle. Seeing a players other stats, such as kills per game, average damage done, survival rate, etc puts the win rate into perspective. Yeah, you may have a 43% win rate, but if you average 2 kills per game, 70k damage, and survive 80% of the time, you're likely just getting stuck with some piss poor teammates. And the opposite can be seen as well. A player with a 70% win rate, but with an average kill rate of .4 , average damage of 20k, and 40% survival rate, is more than likely divisioning with other players and being carried by his team and contributing [edited] all to the win. You're Pensacola jackoff is likely on that end of the spectrum. He knows it, but he hides behind his win rate because most people don't care enough to go and check it. 

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1 hour ago, pewpewpew42 said:

Winrate is an excellent indicator of competence in a specific ship. It's also a marker of focus on winning instead of stat padding, which is most important in a mode with many exact victory conditions.

If someone has a 45% WR, they actively hurt their team's victory chance, and this problem is exacerbated with smaller teams (like those in ranked and Ops). Get more games in under your belt before doing ops, it's important to know the game first.

Just a suggestion, look up the OP's recent stats. https://na.wows-numbers.com/player/1001414381,ruar/progress/

 I think he's doing just fine given his battle count. Way above many with 5-10 times his experience.

 

38 minutes ago, ruar said:

I've actually learned more about shooting and adjusting fire from ops than I have from random battles.  Thanks, but I'll continue to play the ops that I enjoy.

Thats my experience as well. OPs are a far better training environment than Co-Op and randoms. Granted there are many players who are just dead set on not learning but even in a loss you get more opportunity to practice gunnery and positioning than any Co-Op match.

If you're not a member already consider joining up with the Hoperations bunch on Discord. We often run full divs through all the ops rather than dealing with just the op of the week. https://discord.gg/5GVfX9A

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2 minutes ago, Trowa03 said:

A player with a 50% win rate sounds like a decent player, until you realize they've only played 100 games or so. That's much less impressive than a player with a 40% win rate and 500 games played. 

Uuuhhhh.  After 100 games player A isn’t a rock star but he’s not going ruin his team. Player B has played 500 games and is bringing every team he’s on down into the gutter.  Player B makes every team he’s on worse and doesn’t get that fundamental but if kniwledge the wr% is telling him.

Sorry, but if you make your team lose that much it IS impressive but not the way you’re implying.

The last part about high stats and low win rates is a complex game design discussion but you can very easily shoot the wrong ships - as indicated by lots of damage without being able to translate that damage into wins.  Shooting targets that don’t help you win isn’t your team messing up.

Finally, you can play well and still lose - a few times.  If you continue to play well but lose then you’re incorrectly evaluating how well you’re playing.

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15 minutes ago, Trowa03 said:

Most people don't understand how a win rate is calculated, or the factors that can influence it. A player with a 50% win rate sounds like a decent player, until you realize they've only played 100 games or so. That's much less impressive than a player with a 40% win rate and 500 games played. On top of that, few people seem to take into account that this is a heavily team reliant game. It doesn't matter how good you think you are, you're always at the mercy of your team. So win rate really doesn't matter all that much. That said, it can be somewhat of an indicator of how much you yourself influence the battle. Seeing a players other stats, such as kills per game, average damage done, survival rate, etc puts the win rate into perspective. Yeah, you may have a 43% win rate, but if you average 2 kills per game, 70k damage, and survive 80% of the time, you're likely just getting stuck with some piss poor teammates. And the opposite can be seen as well. A player with a 70% win rate, but with an average kill rate of .4 , average damage of 20k, and 40% survival rate, is more than likely divisioning with other players and being carried by his team and contributing [edited] all to the win. You're Pensacola jackoff is likely on that end of the spectrum. He knows it, but he hides behind his win rate because most people don't care enough to go and check it. 

you get the logic wrong.

 if you average 2 kills per game, 70k damage, and survive 80% of the time, then your win rate ABSOLUTELY can't be 43%. and you really think a player with an average kill rate of .4 , average damage of 20k, and 40% survival rate can achieve 70% win rate after let's say 500 games played? LOL

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