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Pyun

Looking for a Tough Cruiser

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Hey guys. I am wanting some advice on what I should research next. I have a good number of cruisers that are really squishy like the belfast, kutozov, atago and des moine but I am looking for something that isn't deleted as easily when angled. Everything I have is squishy. Even my battleship is squishy like the Yamato. I seem to get citadeled despite being angled or bow towards the enemy/away from the enemy(plunging fire probably). In one game(that i wish i was recording) I was in a des moine between 3 islands so I thought i was safe. I fired on a relatively close cruiser and during those 20 seconds of being detected I was instantly focus fired by 8 people on the enemy team. Quite a spectacular sight when you see the detected marker on your screen go from 0->8 people. Lately, I have also seen the gameplay of other fellow des moine and minotaur players. All of them were behind islands lobbing shots over the islands. I dislike this sort of gameplay so i don't think those 2 ships are for me.  I want a cruiser that can bounce but still provide a decent amount of fire on target and thus be better on supporting dds in the cap. Something that a battleship will have a hard time citadeling. 

 

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Tough cruiser?

I would suggest Scharnhorst.

 

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At tier 10, I heard the German and Russian tech tree cruisers are pretty tanky. I don't own them, just parroting what I heard.

Most cruisers will just die to battleships even angled. (WG said they are working on that...not sure when or how)

Edited by JB_24

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A ‘tough’ cruiser?

Emerald. It has to be ‘tough’ to put up with all the grief it gets.

If you meant a different kind of tough, then maybe Hindenburg if you’re playing DM.

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Try the Germans out, starting at t7 they are some of the tankier cruisers (still cruisers though)

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Can't speak for the stern, but the Bow on Yamato/Musashi has a spot by turret 2 that is easy to pen for citadels. Why you really have to watch angles in it especially point blank.

As to cruisers, I'm not sure what to recommend, I have Salem, basically a Des Clone with zombie mode, and without the heal have no issues tanking damage, same with the tier 8 and 9 USN Heavy's, I've tanked 2-3 million damage in them and charged battleships head on to ram AP in their sides and out run the turrets. Actually easier to tank damage in them than Kron. Only other thing I know that is in fact a cruiser is similar to USN, I only have tier 8, but I hear the T10 tanks more like a BB.

However, if you want a slightly more cruiser gameplay style, but more armour, UK BB's tier 7+, French Tier 8+, Maybe Gnei. Until you get to high tiers in UK, they use smaller guns, and are really more about speed and stealth, French are pretty much the same. 

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Tier 5: The Japanese cruiser (forgot the name) is pretty "tough" at that tier.

Tier 6: Dallas (almost hands down for durability at that tier).

Tier 7: I'd go with Myoko for all round "toughness". New Orleans can bow tank well though but most tier 7's have weak sides and can sorta bow tank. Myoko, however, is generally well armored even along the sides for the most part.

Tier 8: I'd go with the German Hipper or Japanese Mogami. The Hipper is particularly durable for that tier though if you consider side armor.

Tier 9:... tough call. Don't have all of them just yet. German Roon seems like a good contender.

Tier 10: Only tier 10 I have is Des Moines. It's tough as nails with bow tanking but again, sides are weak. Hindenburg is typically considered a micro-Battleship.

Overall, the German Cruisers at tier 8 and up are probably your best bet for overall durability. Tiers 7 and below are nearly identical; except for the ones I mentioned.

But remember, it all depends on how you play them. A Des Moines isn't actually "Squishy" as any shell that can hurt it can hurt any other cruiser. Des Moines does not however have side armor. So, if you are showing your sides, you will be feeling it from everything. But if you point your nose at the enemy and the only thing that's going to do any serious damage is a BB's AP shell (if it doesn't bounce).

If you are looking for a more forgiving ship that can take that sort of hit, Yeah, that would be one of the German Hvy Cruisers as they have rather beefy armor and durability at higher tiers. Lower tiers are light cruisers with the York being a rather odd duck. It's armor, in general, is weak; even when bow tanking. But it's got impressive guns... so... get past that and at tier 8 you start getting to the tougher ships.

 

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Furutaka is generally considered pretty tanky for a T5. Zao isn't generally known for tanking, but her turtleback can allow for surprising potential damage if enemies are dead set on killing her.

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Prinz Eugen is pretty durable.  It is still a cruiser, but much tougher than the average US, IJN or RN cruisers.  The heal makes the Prinz even more durable.  

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1 hour ago, Pyun said:

All of them were behind islands lobbing shots over the islands.

Yeah I too dislike this kind of gameplay, it's not for me, probably why i don't live long in these Cruisers.

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I mean, let's reign in some expectations here. Yamato is one of the top 3 tankiest ships in the game. If you find her too squishy to take into battle, then might I suggest playing CVs?

 

In general, what you'll find is that there are actually a lot of tough ships in the game. But WG found a long time ago that ships which are tough to the point of ignoring major game mechanics make for boring gameplay, and so they like to work in little 'quirks' and features which can serve to either bolster or offset a ship's tankiness, depending upon the skill and knowledge of players.

For example, the Yamato has some of the thickest armour, toughest torpedo belt and best protected citadels in the game. However, none of this will be much use to you, if you don't know that the citadel rides high above the water. This means that if you show the flat broadside of your ship, most BBs in your spread will be able to citadel you reliably from almost any range. Yamato players usually compensate for this by riding close to islands, such as to limit the number of ships which have shots onto their broadside. It should also be noted that, like all other BBs, the Yamato bow can be overmatched by enemy Yamatos and Musashis unless you angle slightly. However, the Yamato has an added complication here, because the citadel armour is diamond-shaped, meaning that all BBs and some CAs (like the Moskva or Stalingrad) are able to citadel you when you are angled at about 45 degrees to them, by aiming below your front turret. Good Yamato players are aware of these weaknesses, and are able to manage them by carefully angling themselves, and by positioning themselves so that only those threats can engage them which they can manage.

A similar rule applies to cruisers. A short list of 'tough' cruisers, together with their respective quirks:
 

Moskva/Stalingrad: Strongest bows of any ship in the game (including all BBs), with a 50 inch armour belt extending to the front. You can still be penned from the front by Republiques, Yamatos and Musashis (and I think Montanas?) if they aim at your upper bow. It is also possible (if unlikely) that BBs firing from 12km+ away plunge into your citadel. That all said, your biggest weakness is that your citadel is high above the water, meaning that exposing broadside will result in you being citadeled by anything (including some DDs). Most compensate for this by sailing close to islands, but this tends to make you slow, leaving you exposed to HE spam by Zaos, Henris and desMoines/Worcester (at closer ranges). Avoid engaging such ships alone.

Hindenburg: Haven't played it myself (still on the roon), but generally tough and with a turtleback which reduces (but does not prevent) citadel strikes if you show your broadside. 

Zao: Not tough in terms of armour, but strong concealment, speed and maneuverability allows you to dictate engagements such that you should always have the upper hand. Ships which are able to disengage at will like this often end up living the longest; able to heal back up and rejoin the frey, and usually end up with the highest potential damage stats.

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Des Moines are squishy?

Most of the ones I faced in CW are tough.

Just don't show broadsides. 

....

Hindy is a range player. 

Moscow is a battleship. 

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Tier for tier, Moskva, Kronshtadt, Stalingrad, Hindenburg, Salem, Roon, Hipper, Boise/NDJ, Yorck, and Graf Spee. Tough ships with either good armor schemes or good HP (base pool or recovery potential).

In future, potentially Alaska and Azuma.

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1 hour ago, Pyun said:

Hey guys. I am wanting some advice on what I should research next. I have a good number of cruisers that are really squishy like the belfast, kutozov, atago and des moine but I am looking for something that isn't deleted as easily when angled. Everything I have is squishy. Even my battleship is squishy like the Yamato. I seem to get citadeled despite being angled or bow towards the enemy/away from the enemy(plunging fire probably). In one game(that i wish i was recording) I was in a des moine between 3 islands so I thought i was safe. I fired on a relatively close cruiser and during those 20 seconds of being detected I was instantly focus fired by 8 people on the enemy team. Quite a spectacular sight when you see the detected marker on your screen go from 0->8 people. Lately, I have also seen the gameplay of other fellow des moine and minotaur players. All of them were behind islands lobbing shots over the islands. I dislike this sort of gameplay so i don't think those 2 ships are for me.  I want a cruiser that can bounce but still provide a decent amount of fire on target and thus be better on supporting dds in the cap. Something that a battleship will have a hard time citadeling. 

 

You would have to drop down a few tier but,,,,,,,,,,,,,,best cruiser in the game?  Tier 3 St Louis. Hands down and FUN. I still keep it when I need a  win. It will destroy BBs in its tier. Monster. 

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German line is really squeeshy at first but they gain more armor as you progress through the line. Hindy is fairly tanky and tricky to citadel at close range so as long you don't give broadside you should be fine.

 

Zao, Myoukou and Furutaka are quite tanky for their tier. 

 

Henri is also pretty tanky. It has enough armor to bounce some AP shells and you also have speed in case you need to disengage. You can be a real pain for BB and some cruisers if you know how to WSAD hack and angle.

 

Moksva is basically a BB with a CA tag. It's really fragile when you catch its broadside but if you remain angle, there is only a section of the bow that is vulnerable to AP and HE. The rest is only vulnerable to some HE cruiser / BB HE. Farming potential damage in Moksva is really easy.

 

 

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Thanks for everyones opinions. I think I have decided on either the Henri or German Hindinburg line. In my Missouri I had a tough time citadeling them when they were full broadside(15km) so im sure that I will enjoy them both. I am fine with bbs penetrating me but a tough and difficult citadels are paramount! Especially if you are angled and are bouncing battleship shells.

 

and man i need to enable replays because it is rediculous how hilarious i get citadeled. 45 degrees not good enough for the de grasse? I got one salvoed.

Edited by Pyun

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No 45 degrees is not enough by a longshot.

As a general rule of thumb, if you can use all your guns, you will eat cits.

Edited by crzyhawk

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Moskva, Stalingrad

Best Tanks

Bow on playstyle lower dpm, insane alpha damage

Hindy

Great all around  tank, more long distance kiter but can do a little bit of everything.

Can play back and get consistent damage

Zao

Little armor but Trolly armor

 

Low concealment to get in close turn and proceed to kite back. Trolling team that shoots her but can also be Insta deleted wired armor Super trolly at long distances

Great fire starter and damage all around and 12km torps.

 

 

Edited by OppressorUnion

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On 1/11/2019 at 9:27 PM, pewpewpew42 said:

Tier for tier, Moskva, Kronshtadt, Stalingrad, Hindenburg, Salem, Roon, Hipper, Boise/NDJ, Yorck, and Graf Spee. Tough ships with either good armor schemes or good HP (base pool or recovery potential).

In future, potentially Alaska and Azuma.

Nah Alaska is out of the picture because they raised the citadels. 

 

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German cruisers they turn almost any incoming shells into an overpens with their turtlebacks.

Henri IV if you can time your rudder to incoming salvos even those from BBs and bait shells into your angled in spaced belt armor I pissed off those with 406mm guns even 

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I've gone bow-on with the Des Moines against some BBs and lived to tell the tale. But that's not a style of play I'd recommend with the Des Moines. I haven't played the Russians past about T7,  I think, but here's my take on the others.

 

 The Hindenburg is rightly called the Battleship Hindenburg, so it's known for it's tanky qualities. Of all the CAs, I think Hindy is the tankiest. She's best as an open water cruiser early, but can tank with the best of them mid- and late-game.

 

But don't underestimate the Zao. She hangs out at longer range than most, and doesn't tank as well as the Hindy. But what I find the Zao does better than any of the others is shoot-and-scoot. I take all of the rudder shift mods that they offer, then dodge and weave while blazing away. A good BB shot can take half - or even two thirds - of your HP in a single shot, but I haven't had that happen too often, really. All things considered, i prefer the Zao to the Hindy.

 

The Mino is an entirely different creature, and I don't think "tanky" is a word you can use to describe her. The Mino has a lot of qualities, and is an absolute hoot to play, but she's quirky and squishy and amazing and infuriating. She is a ship that you will adore and will drive you slightly nuts. She's sometimes able to do a lot of damage in open water, but is often times found near an island trying to avoid getting shot by anything bigger than a DD. I took a Kitakaze yardarm-to-yardarm with a Mino once. We surprised each other coming around an island. I had AP loaded and we were both at full health, and we commenced to blazin' away. I got a few extra shots in as his guns were pointed away from me. I died, but I took 85% of the Mino's HP with me. I gave better than I got, largely because of the Mino being so squishy. Tanky? No. Fun? Absolutely. Maddening? More often than Mino drivers like to admit.

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If you like to fight in short ranges, the High Tier German CAs are the best.

 

The protection scheme is good, provided you're not showing broadside.  Hindenburg is THE toughest in a short ranged fight.

 

High Tier German & US Heavy Cruisers got 27mm bows so in situations where they're fighting 381mm or smaller BBs, that can be leveraged.  The big plus German CAs have is that they retain their torpedoes, US Cruisers lose them in the line after V Omaha.  But I've brawled with 2 Bismarcks in some islands with Des Moines, covered my sides with the islands and simply bow tanked their 380mm AP.  I hammered them with the 203mm autoloaders, did some maneuvering, and started to make them panic and I sank them both eventually.

 

A caveat to Hindenburg's protection scheme.  She is a bit of a paradox because of it.  Hindenburgs fighting at range is where they eat the big AP pen damage and citadels.  Fighting at medium and long ranges with Montana, I've deleted many Hindenburgs.  But when fighting in shorter ranges, hoping for pens is the best you can hope for against her because she's so resilient at that engagement range.  Citadeling her is difficult and Hindy can tank it enough to get in close and drop torps on you.  But lots of Hindenburg players too scared to dare fight in a brawl, even against Battleships.  They prefer to fight at long range where BBs will smash them.  It's unfortunate, because in a short ranged fight, Hindenburg is one of the most dangerous ships in the game.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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