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njroc

What is the problem with Printz EF ?

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Greetings:

No Z for You posted a video that utterly trashed the Printz E. Friedrick. (PEF).  I saw a preview video some months back done by Notser noting how to use the PEF.  Do lots of kiting, use your speed, and remember your guns are not 16" rifles.  I remembered that advice when I got a PEF and I treat it more as a CA than a BC/BB.  I have not played it very often but I do sink a ship with it just about every match and it works very well for causing general annoyance for other ships due to it main battery. I use islands quite a bit and surprise ships at close quarters.  Be sure to use the first salvo to kill the torpedo launchers first.  Then go after the main guns. After that, the opposition is pretty much sunk.  It works for me.  It is much more functional than say the Graf Spee.

NJRoc

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I said from the first round I played that it needed to be played like a heavily armored cruiser. It works quite well for me.

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It's not an overpowered premium, ergo, it's trash, according to many.  i.e. min-maxers say it's either the best, or it's not worth having.

 

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The only real issue I can come up with is that many expected a god mode ship, or something great like the Tirpitz was or the Sharnhorst and when they didn't make it work as well... I don't know.... it s tier 6..... Another possibility is that many don't have 19 point captains to put in it and are struggling... I honestly don't know. It's tier 6....how much magic is it supposed to provide...

Its fast and has great AA...use that.....and angle, then profit. Its really that easy.

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My biggest problem with the PEF is the sigma and the long reload.

 

If WG adjusted those she would be a sweet little ship.

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The AP shells are the worst in tier / type. At anything further than short / medium range they don't have the penetration to do real damage. That's a weakness some people simply can't deal with.

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6 minutes ago, Lert said:

The AP shells are the worst in tier / type. At anything further than short / medium range they don't have the penetration to do real damage. That's a weakness some people simply can't deal with.

Pretty much this. What's the point in being more accurate than your typical German BB if you have to insert barrel into enemy ship to do damage.

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1 minute ago, warheart1992 said:

Pretty much this. What's the point in being more accurate than your typical German BB if you have to insert barrel into enemy ship to do damage.

I'm probably dont it wrong, but I've already taken to HE spam in P.E.F. It's consistent damage and fires! :Smile_hiding:

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9 minutes ago, Lert said:

The AP shells are the worst in tier / type. At anything further than short / medium range they don't have the penetration to do real damage. That's a weakness some people simply can't deal with.

That and the turret traverse pisses me off. I'd be happy with the same shells but faster reload and traverse

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5 minutes ago, mavfin87 said:

It's not an overpowered premium, ergo, it's trash, according to many.  i.e. min-maxers say it's either the best, or it's not worth having.

 

Eh, I'm in the camp of "its trash," at least in randoms. And I'm a guy that likes the Roma and the Terrible. 

It's just how hard it is to deal damage. The AP pen is so bad, and the HE just isn't good enough. If it had the typical German armor layout, it could get close to pen more and use it's secondaries, but that just gets you killed.

That said, it is pretty good in co-op and scenarios. It can get close to buff it's pen and use its secondaries, and the AA is good for keeping planes away.

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8 minutes ago, Der_Eigenvektor said:

I'm probably dont it wrong, but I've already taken to HE spam in P.E.F. It's consistent damage and fires! :Smile_hiding:

I think I have taken more HE damage than AP by P.E.Fs so far, so I don't think you are in the wrong.

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I have no issues with it. I has no great features (Maybe AA) but it is a solid ship. Suffers from dispersion issues but it can be fairly tanky so just get closer. HE from range close in then get the AP working. Also pretty good secondary guns.

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I'd still rather play it over Arizona or new Mexico. It's not slow as molasses so it's go that going for it

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Just now, Komrade_Rylo said:

I'd still rather play it over Arizona or new Mexico. It's not slow as molasses so it's go that going for it

Different people have different expectations.  

The 'muh stats' crowd generally gravitates to not playing anything that's 'average' or lower.  If 'it's not 'above average' or better , they don't want it on their port.   Usual FotM behavior.

 

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zoup just got finished saying 25mm of armor was good and you should bow tank with it. So i wouldnt trust him for gameplay advise.

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I'll say it again, I enjoyed it in testing enough to buy it outright. 

Yeah, AP pen is...crap. I just aim everywhere the belt isn't, drool at incoming planes and when I'm feeling extra cheeky; I load the salt and pepper rounds. 

It's not a flashy ship. It requires some heavy skill specs and some forethought to make it work.

Some ships just don't mesh with people. I get that. But PEF is a gigglefest for me. 

 

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44 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

Pretty much this. What's the point in being more accurate than your typical German BB if you have to insert barrel into enemy ship to do damage.

This isn't the first German BB with low penetration guns.  Scharnhorst in Tier VII actually has very weak AP Pen and her players have to place shots differently against other BBs if not in shorter ranges with broadside shots.  They often have to settle for upper hull, base superstructure hits.

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Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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50 minutes ago, mavfin87 said:

It's not an overpowered premium, ergo, it's trash, according to many.  i.e. min-maxers say it's either the best, or it's not worth having.

 

Mav, I sorta agree that some people have the attitude that if some premium isn't OP, then it's junk.  That said, I do think that the PEF is underpowered.  Its guns are too weak.  The Dunkerque's (smaller) main guns seem to have more punch than the PEF's mains at range.  This isn't to say that one can't do decently in the PEF, but it feels like trying to run through knee deep mud rather than on a nice, clear road.  It's a constant plodding grind to do significant damage in the PEF.

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1 minute ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

This isn't the first German BB with low penetration guns.  Scharnhorst in Tier VII actually has very weak AP Pen and her players have to place shots differently against other BBs if not in shorter ranges with broadside shots.  They often have to settle for upper hull, base superstructure hits.

Haze, the difference is that the Scharnhorst has only 11" guns on a tier 7 ship, whereas the PEF has 13.8" guns.  It's actually understandable that the Scharnhorst would feel grossly underpowered trying to use AP vs other battleships with those puny main guns.  But 13.8" main guns on a late WW1 ship should have more punch than they're given in game.  They really should.

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4 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

This isn't the first German BB with low penetration guns.  Scharnhorst in Tier VII actually has very weak AP Pen and her players have to place shots differently against other BBs if not in shorter ranges with broadside shots.  They often have to settle for upper hull, base superstructure hits.

YLQPVAW.jpg

Oh yes, no argument on the mediocre/bad pen of Scharn on medium/long range.

But you compensate for this by having 66% of your firepower on your bow, 20 sec reload, cruiser like turret traverse,  you practically  can't be citadelled and  got torps.

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5 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Haze, the difference is that the Scharnhorst has only 11" guns on a tier 7 ship, whereas the PEF has 13.8" guns.  It's actually understandable that the Scharnhorst would feel grossly underpowered trying to use AP vs other battleships with those puny main guns.  But 13.8" main guns on a late WW1 ship should have more punch than they're given in game.  They really should.

From the stats I'm seeing so far, it's doing just fine to include even Ranked Sprint 4.  People want EZ Street Premium Battleships.

 

People like to trash Vanguard and Roma, but they're doing alright.  But those are balanced Premium BBs and people want their EZ Street Premium Battleships.

2 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

Oh yes, no argument on the mediocre/bad pen of Scharn on medium/long range.

But you compensate for this by having 66% of your firepower on your bow, 20 sec reload, cruiser like turret traverse,  you practically  can't be citadelled and  got torps.

And Scharnhorst sits in Tier VII, so she gets the extra perks, because she really needs it since she sees as high as Tier IX threats.

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1 minute ago, warheart1992 said:

Oh yes, no argument on the mediocre/bad pen of Scharn on medium/long range.

But you compensate for this by having 66% of your firepower on your bow, 20 sec reload, cruiser like turret traverse,  you practically  can't be citadelled and  got torps.

And with the way Man Secondaries is structured, the benefits of a full Man Sec, secondary build are greater on a tier 7 ship than on a tier 6 ship.

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55 minutes ago, njroc said:

Greetings:

No Z for You posted a video that utterly trashed the Printz E. Friedrick. (PEF).  I saw a preview video some months back done by Notser noting how to use the PEF.  Do lots of kiting, use your speed, and remember your guns are not 16" rifles.  I remembered that advice when I got a PEF and I treat it more as a CA than a BC/BB.  I have not played it very often but I do sink a ship with it just about every match and it works very well for causing general annoyance for other ships due to it main battery. I use islands quite a bit and surprise ships at close quarters.  Be sure to use the first salvo to kill the torpedo launchers first.  Then go after the main guns. After that, the opposition is pretty much sunk.  It works for me.  It is much more functional than say the Graf Spee.

NJRoc

macmade-.gif.15e899a57f63ffadd342177a0b38b3d1.gif

I've took LWM's advice and set it up for AA and secondaries and have been doing fairly well with it. T4-T6 DD's wither under it's secondary fire and T7 DDs catch fire regularly. T8 battles tend to be a little problematic, but as long as I stick around the T7-T8 team mates, I tend to survive, though usually at a lower score. Last night I used the PEF equipped with econ flags and Revolutionary camo to go from 15,000 to 2,800.000 credits in a little over two hours. I should have the entire final directive finished by tomorrow. I like this ship and it seems to play fairly well for me.

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To me it doesnt feel balanced to other ships in its tier of the same type.  The guns have as much pen as a myogi beyond 10km that is awful.   With how the new AA rework is made her AA guns will go from great to really bad fast.  Her secondaries while great for the tier are still not that effective due to the 7km range so I dont consider them much of a selling point.   Due to her lack of pen its easier in almost any case to go out in any other T6 bb and do better easier then her.  Now im not asking to OP ship, just something more balanced with its peers, she has speed and thats it atm.  The air drag on the shells really hampers her.

If they buffed her reload to 24 sec like she was before it would at least offset the lack of pen a bit.  Or alternatively give her decent pen for a T6 and leave the reload alone.   I found playing the PEF to be a slog, i rather have been in my warspite/arizona or basicly anything else.  I wont go so far as to say she has no redeeming qualities just that they dont make up for the awful pen.  The sharn gets away with 11inch guns by having good pen on them and good shell speed, ive multi cit an iowa at medium 12km distance with sharn.

Edited by JToney3449

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They did it this way because a lot of cruisers driver are fed up that many BB are using their ships to snipe at enemy ships instead of going in and acting as meat shields for them. So the gun was made into trash and we are force into getting in close and be HP spam to death with burning. 

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