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zubalkabir

Ashitaka represtative of Japanese BBs?

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Just got Ashitaka in a super crate last night.   Only played two games in her, but she seems decent.  The guns actually hit and do damage, without having to jump through a bunch of hoops and get your positioning and angling just right, and lining up your shot during a full moon on the second Tuesday of the month during a leap year.  At least that's what it seems like so far.  I'm wondering if that's a function of having tier VIII guns at tier VII?

 

Anyway, the only BB lines I've climbed are German and French (although I also have Massachusetts).  Is this ship representative of what Japanese BBs play like?  Or is it just a tier anomaly?

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I didn't like at first, commented that its bad and almost got run out of town...tried it a few more times. Hits hard... but there should be the Ashitaka mafia around soon and they will help more than me.

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2 minutes ago, zubalkabir said:

Is this ship representative of what Japanese BBs play like?  Or is it just a tier anomaly?

More or less. Fast-ish, good range, accurate but soft and with at best mediocre AA. Ashitaka is on the better end of the standard IJN BB battleship playstyle.

 

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Its similar to amagi, maybe nagato... for sure NOT a tier anomaly

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Starting with the Kongo, the Japanese battleships are a gem, with the exception of the Izumo. The are fast, maneuver well, have hard hitting guns. The Fuso is a T-6 powerhouse. Nagato is way better than the Colorado, Amagie is like a sports car. Grind the Japanese BB line, you won't be sorry.

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18 minutes ago, UssIowaSailor said:

Starting with the Kongo, the Japanese battleships are a gem, with the exception of the Izumo. The are fast, maneuver well, have hard hitting guns. The Fuso is a T-6 powerhouse. Nagato is way better than the Colorado, Amagie is like a sports car. Grind the Japanese BB line, you won't be sorry.

Problem with the Nagatos, same as the Yamatos, is that they spent much of the war tied to a dock, partly for fuel considerations.  The Kongo class, otoh, was everywhere.  

Kongo's a little soft compared to her peers at T5, but, they were originally built as battlecruisers, and then modernized in the 30s, but iirc, they still just have an 8-inch belt.  On the other hand, the Kongos are a lot faster than anything else at T5, unless I forgot someone, and they have good guns.

 

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Ashitaka is what used to be the A hull of the tier 8 Amagi.  She's a battlecruiser, and is thus has less armor than you might expect.

 

She's pretty prototypical of how high tier IJN BBs play: using her accuracy to citadel the bejeesus out of anything that shows her broadside from medium-long range.

 

You're not going to want to be the one leading most charges, but you don't want to be too far behind your front line either.  To that end, I usually use her as a second-line damage machine.

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For the most part, IJN from Beta testing were more the "snipers" of the game, given that other than Yamato and Musashi - they pretty much have paper armour by comparison. At low tiers, they can out run most anything with BB caliber guns, and at high tier, out range or slug it out with them. That and they usually have slightly bigger guns.

I will also be the weirdo that actually defends the Izumo. I find the ship perfectly fine and fun, however, unlike many players aside from all forward suiting my aggressive playstyle better, I played Nelson before I played Izumo, so had more lower tier time learning how a similar ship worked. Also note though I tend to hate and do poorly in the "good" ships, yet love and do well in the "bad" ones.

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Ashitaka had a very bad early reputation because she was a downtiered clone of what used to be the Amagi A hull, but with lacklustre guns firing lacklustre shells with questionable AP performance. The only good thing about her was the Kobayashi camo which gave 50% service cost reduction and 20% credit boost. Much of what you will find on YouTube is probably less than charitable because of her ballistic performance, and from the sound of it, it was well-deserved. THEN.

Mid summer last year (2018), her guns were upgraded in-game to the full Amagi standard and now I'm wishing I'd bought her when she was half-price. 

@DerKrampus speaks wisely. The Amagis were battlecruisers, designed to play second fiddle to 18-inch-gunned battleships that were never built. However, the Washington Treaty scotched all that. Amagi was allowed to proceed as an aircraft carrier conversion, but her incomplete hull was wrecked beyond repair in an earthquake in 1923.

(I don't recall if her sister ship Akagi ever fought against the original Lexington or Saratoga, but if they had, it would have been a fascinating case of ships that began as battlecruisers fighting each other as carriers.)

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I wish there were more Ashitakas around, last one I saw I scored a triple cit on with a Massachusetts then finished it off with another citadel and standard hits. Those ships are a 16" shell's best friend.

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2 hours ago, zubalkabir said:

Just got Ashitaka in a super crate last night.   Only played two games in her, but she seems decent.  The guns actually hit and do damage, without having to jump through a bunch of hoops and get your positioning and angling just right, and lining up your shot during a full moon on the second Tuesday of the month during a leap year.  At least that's what it seems like so far.  I'm wondering if that's a function of having tier VIII guns at tier VII?

 

Anyway, the only BB lines I've climbed are German and French (although I also have Massachusetts).  Is this ship representative of what Japanese BBs play like?  Or is it just a tier anomaly?

In terms of reliable gunnery, yes, especially from Tier VI on.

 

In terms of armor, no, Ashitaka is **extremely**extraordinarily** squishy for a BB in Tier VII.  Fuso in Tier VI feels safer and she's known as a floating citadel.

 

The speed is similar to some IJN BBs:  Tier V Kongo, Tier VIII Amagi & Kii.  Not all IJN BBs got that fast, but they are faster than USN BBs in general.  Only in Tier IX-X do USN BBs got quite a bit faster than IJN counterparts.

 

The guns on Ashitaka are basically what Nagato in Tier VII has.  She also used the Type 91 AP shells that Nagato uses.  Nagato has 8 rifles only though.  As a tradeoff compared to Ashitaka, Nagato is still very accurate and much better protected than Ashitaka who has the speed and firepower advantage.  Nagato can survive a mistake that would see Ashitaka get instantly obliterated even with near full HP.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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I got her when wg was doing the ship of the day sale last yr. I looked at reviews and threads which seemed to down her but gave it a shot anyway, i like odd ships.

 Loved it ever since. Big guns, quick ship, paper armor. Play it as such and youre good to go :cap_like:

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2 hours ago, Lert said:

More or less. Fast-ish, good range, accurate but soft and with at best mediocre AA. Ashitaka is on the better end of the standard IJN BB battleship playstyle.

 

did you just fat shame her?

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2 hours ago, zubalkabir said:

I'm wondering if that's a function of having tier VIII guns at tier VII?

Nope. You get the same guns on Nagato, just 2 less and a bit slower reload.

Amagi is probably my favorite BB so far. The B-hull has surprisingly trollish armor at medium range, with the right angle. The AA is meh, but the secondaries (especially since the removal of AP) are pretty decent.

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Ashitaka is basically the Old Stock Hull Tier VIII Amagi, which was a miserable experience in Tier VIII.  Amagi herself in Tier VIII is a more rounded ship, namely her protection is good.  However, she can see the likes of Yamato, Montana, Midway, Hakuryu, Shimakaze, etc.

 

In general features, IMO the most "all around" IJN BB is Amagi.  You got a very good blend of speed, firepower (power, number of rifles, accuracy), protection.  Every other IJN BB makes considerable tradeoffs for an aspect or two.  Even Fuso in Tier VI that is generally well loved and a high performer, has pretty suspect protection.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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Ashitaka Is a Amagi Class battlecruiser that is not as Modernized as the Amagi, Hence Tier 7. Her Guns at first were the same as the Mutsu, which are not very good. When they Buffed her,they put the Amagi Guns on her and the difference is alot better performance. Watch exposing her broadside to much as she is NOT a Battleship, But a Battlecruiser like HMS Hood. She sacraficed Armor for better speed. Hits hard but has a glass Jaw. Good Luck

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4 hours ago, zubalkabir said:

Anyway, the only BB lines I've climbed are German and French (although I also have Massachusetts).  Is this ship representative of what Japanese BBs play like?  Or is it just a tier anomaly?

Yes, absolutely, the IJN battleship line is worth grinding (from T5 up). 

I started with German BBs too, so when I reached the Nagato I was like Wow! This is what a battleship is meant to feel like - regular 10k salvos from 14km against targets that didn’t need to be perfect broadside, decent speed, solid (but not impervious) protection, not-useless secondaries, though she has no functional AA, and like all IJN BBs she is not stealthy. The play style contrast to Gneisenau (a ship I love and enjoy) is striking. 

I would describe theIJN BBs like this:

5) Kongo is fast, with hard hitting guns that are very accurate compared to her counterparts, but they can still miss your targets. Staying at 12-14km is optimal as enemy isn’t sufficiently accurate to punch through your weak armour reliably, but you can still (usually) hurt them. True battlecruiser play. 

6) Fuso is more like the shotgun play you are used to with Normandie and Lyon. I thought initially it was a trashbote because I couldn’t hit anything, until learnt that it’s about 50% more effective at 12 km than at 14 km. To fire all your guns you drive broadside a lot, so don’t complain if you get citted in return. It’s a trade off. Spotted from the moon.

6) Mutsu is a lot like Nagato a tier lower, with soft stats nerfed and zero AA. The torps are a bit of a trap as (unlike German BBs) you have to go full broadside to use them, there are only 2, but they reload surprisingly quickly. 

7) I’ve already explained the Nagato - plays like how a pure battleship should play. A joy on the line.

8) Amagi I didn’t initially like, and I dreaded the grind due to the negative things I had heard about her. And the original A hull grind was rough. But she wasn’t as squishy as I was expecting, and late in the grind I did a few 200k+ battles in a row - mainly against German BBs. We still lost, heh. Again, weak AA, and you have to always watch for when enemy BBs are pointed at you, but if you are left alone you can print damage alarmingly quickly. Don’t camp at the back, but don’t rush in either. Had plenty of fun in this one.

9, 10) I played Izumo on the PTS enough to learn I didn’t like her, so I skipped her with Free XP. Similarly, I have only played a couple of battles in my Musashi and Yamato as I moved on to play other lines. Others can speak better to their performance. 

 

Good luck!

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19 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

 

(I don't recall if her sister ship Akagi ever fought against the original Lexington or Saratoga, but if they had, it would have been a fascinating case of ships that began as battlecruisers fighting each other as carriers.)

Based on what I just looked up on Wikipedia, the Akagi did fight at Midway, but she was damaged by the Enterprise to the point where she had to be scuttled. Since the Saratoga was being repaired after getting torpedoed at Wake Island, the two never got the chance to face each other.

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8 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

(I don't recall if her sister ship Akagi ever fought against the original Lexington or Saratoga, but if they had, it would have been a fascinating case of ships that began as battlecruisers fighting each other as carriers.)

I don't think she did.  She wasn't present at Coral Sea, and she was sunk rather shortly afterward at Midway.  That was only 6 months into the war.

4 hours ago, 1Sherman said:

Based on what I just looked up on Wikipedia, the Akagi did fight at Midway, but she was damaged by the Enterprise to the point where she had to be scuttled. So technically, she shared the battlefield with the Saratoga, but she never engaged her.

I don't think Saratoga was at Midway, was she?  It was Yorktown, Hornet and Enterprise.

Edited by DerKrampus

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For US Carriers, it was all 3 of the Yorktown-class Carriers at Midway.  No other US Carriers.

 

Just prior to Midway, there was the Battle of the Coral Sea where the 2 Shokaku-class Fleet CVs squared off with Yorktown and Lexington Fleet CVs.  Lexington was sunk and Yorktown damaged, sent back to Pearl Harbor for hasty repairs, and then sent to Midway to meet her two sisters for the expected clash.  Yorktown was not fully repaired when she was sent to Midway.

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I got Ashitaka in a Christmas container last month. There aint many BBs that impress me but I like Ashitaka. Her weak AA is my only complaint. Her guns are excellent and very accurate for a BB. Being a Cruiser main I'm used to weak armor so I don't find Ashitaka's weak armor (for a BB) to be a big deal. Of my tier 7 BBs, (Scharnhorst, Hood, Duke of York, Nelson, Ashitaka) Scharnhorst is the only one that I like more than Ashitaka.

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Representative?

Not 100%

 

Where does she match the line?

- excellent long range dispersion 

- excellent AP shells

- heaviest broadside at Tier

 

Where does she deviate?

- much less protected than average

- almost no AA

 

I have my Yamato 19pt captain on her and it matches perfectly. First I wanted to use my KII captain but he is too AA heavy spec’d for the IJN silver line.

Therefore Ashitaka is quite an awesome Line trainer. Since the Type 91 shell buff she is an amazing ship overall. Very much an underestimated / hidden gem 

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11 hours ago, DerKrampus said:

I don't think she did.  She wasn't present at Coral Sea, and she was sunk rather shortly afterward at Midway.  That was only 6 months into the war.

I don't think Saratoga was at Midway, was she?  It was Yorktown, Hornet and Enterprise.

You're right, my mistake. :Smile-_tongue:

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