was there sub vs sub combat world war 2

[hawkeyem4]

I'm just wondering because I'm getting silent hunter 4,and want to know if there was ever sub on sub combat at this time.

[anonym_auUiRfWCi1jI]

I've played SH4 and so far, I haven't encountered enemy subs in SH5.  You could research it via Google and report back here.

 

ADD EDIT:

 

I found this:

 

There's the sinking of U864 a type IXD2 U-boat which was sunk by the British Submarine HMS Venturer, commanded by James S Launders, on 9 Feb 1945. The U864 was commanded by Ralf Reimar Wolfram and went down with 70 tons of mercury aboard off the coast of Norway which they are still trying to figure out how to clean up.

 

Related:

 

http://www.uboat.net...79372#msg-79372

[Eyeless_Camper]

Finnish submarine Vetehinen

 

On 5 November 1942, The Finnish submarine Vetehinen rammed the Soviet submarine Щ 305 (ShCh 305) in the Sea of Åland and sank it. According to crew members still alive today, Vetehinen was on a night patrol searching for Soviet submarines, which stayed underwater during daytime but usually came up during the night to recharge their batteries. A contact was found, and after confirmation of an enemy contact Vetehinen launched a torpedoes, which missed probably due being fired at too short distance. Vetehinen opened fire with its deck guns. The second torpedo also missed, but the deck guns managed to damage the Soviet submarine which by now had started an emergency dive. The Captain of Vetehinen, determined not to let the submarine escape ordered his submarine to ram the other vessel which at last was a success – the "teeth" on the bow of the ship ripped open the soviet submarine's hull and caused it to sink. Vetehinen suffered a minor leak because of this but managed to return to its home port.

 

 

 

Finnish submarine Iku-Turso

 

On 27 October 1942, after unsuccessfully attacking a Soviet Shchuka class submarine with 20 mm Madsen cannon in poor visibility the Iku-Turso later came across and torpedoed another Soviet Shchuka class submarine. After torpedo impact the target disappeared. On impact site Finnish submarine located a large oil spill with even more oil still pluming to the surface. Submarine's identity has later been contested as several Soviet submarines of Shchuka class were lost at that time in the area but most likely candidates are either Shch-320 or perhaps even more likely Shch-308[6] as some Russian sources claim that the Shch-320 had been sunk by a mine earlier that month and that the initial unsuccessful attack by Iku Turso had been against Shch-307.

[Super_Dreadnought]

If i remember correctly, there was only 1 instance in WW2 where a sub successfully torpedoed another sub underwater and it involved a lot of luck and a nerdy British captain who managed to calculate approximately where the German sub was. The name of the subs in question escape me at the moment though.

 

So I wouldn't call it sub vs sub combat though since the German sub was taken by surprise.

[anonym_auUiRfWCi1jI]

Interesting thread, of which I approve.   :Smile_great:

[Crag_r]

I found a bit of info on it here, http://forum.worldof...__fromsearch__1

 

Whats interesting to note about that one is it is the only time in History where an underwater submarine has sunk another underwater submarine

 

http://en.wikipedia....9_February_1945

 

Aside from that OP its was known for underwater subs to torpedo subs on the surface, or accidentally . Here we have some examples (although not all intentional)

http://en.wikipedia....k_by_submarines

[anonym_auUiRfWCi1jI]

We're not in that thread, Crag_r; and this is a reply to the OP.  I'm going to ignore for the moment this failed  troll attempt.

 

And my handle here is not NUMBERS, Crag_r.  This is the only time I will remind you of that.  The next time I will report it, again.

[JeeWeeJ]

The Dutch O-21 sunk the U-97. This is an interview of one of it's crewmen

 

dutchsubmarines.com said:

Finally it happened. Opmaat journalist Ton Biesemaat interviewed his own father (Jan 76 years of age) about a famous incident that took place during World War II, a night time battle between a Dutch O and a German U boat. Jan Biesemaat was undergoing training in the navy in Vlissingen when the war broke out. Armed with a rifle dated from 1890, he managed to reach England from Dunkirk after much wandering on the continent. He then reported to the submarine service and was placed on the O 21 under the command of commanding officer Van Dulm. This submarine had an impressive record of service by the end of the war. Read the account of its most famous encounter, as seen through the eyes of a young sailor (Junior Rating).

 

Quote

"A Dutch submarine operating with the Royal Navy in the Mediterranean has torpedoed and sunk a German submarine, the Netherlands's Admiralty announced last night."

BBC broadcast on November 29, 1941

In the chaotic days of May of 1940, the Dutch Royal Navy managed to elude the German invaders to a large extent. The sophisticated Dutch submarines also reached the coasts of the United Kingdom. Once having landed on the other side, Jan Biesemaat assumed that there was plenty of adventure to be had in the submarine service. His expectations were fulfilled.

The O 21's logbook of 1941 tells of numerous patrols and attacks on Vichy French and Italian ships in the Mediterranean from Gibraltar, the O 21's base. Fascinated, the eyes of your journalist skim across descriptive words that sum up those days full of suspense, fear, death and adventure.

 

A random logbook entry: "departure date July 16, 1941 - Gulf of Naples and Tyrrhenian Sea - see two convoys out of range. Fire 4 torpedoes at convoy. Two hits on July 29. Two of the three protective escorts drop 26 depth charges. August 3, after torpedo goes underneath a ship, fire on 3-mast anti-submarine boat barkentine in Bay of Cagliari, 25 shots, at least 7 hits. Ship burning."

Later in the logbook, the following dry announcement: "November 28, U 95 destroyed with 2 aft torpedoes, 1 hit, 12 survivors picked up."

 

It is now high time to liven up this dramatic event with the words of one of the surviving eyewitnesses. It's also a story I've known my entire life, but only the summarized version. Jan Biesemaat, my father, is finally ready to disclose the entire story for the Opmaat.

 

Ghostly Meeting:

 

Jan Biesemaat begins, "We returned from a patrol in the Mediterranean Sea, which wasn't a great success. We did manage to penetrate to just off the coast at the Lido di Roma, the Italian Scheveningen (a famous Dutch beach resort). We were so close to the shore that we could see the Italians sunbathing through the periscope."

 

After a number of futile attacks on Italian convoys, the O 21 set course once again for its home port of Gibraltar. The O 21 needed to stay in a specific territory each day so that the allied ships and planes knew that they there were not dealing with a German U-boat.

 

Biesemaat continues, "On the afternoon of November 27th, we were ahead of our sailing schedule and, in order to stay within the territory, we needed to dive at around 3 o'clock. We surfaced again after dark and continued our course, zigzagging at a speed of 15 knots.

The watch was changed at midnight. We kept war watch, six hours on, six hours off. My division was sleeping when we surfaced. Sometimes, when you're sleeping, and you look at that thin layer of  steel around you, you think to yourself, if they hit you, in such a small boat, you'll be blown to smithereens."

 

Fortunately for Jan Biesemaat he belonged to the B division that was to take over the watch, which means he would then have to search for all suspicious objects from the tower of the submarine.

 

Biesemaat continues, "I was on the forward watch. This means that you search a sector of 180 degrees together with the officer from the watch who is also responsible for the two look-outs who keep an eye on the aft side. By the way, there are always four of you in the tower so that we can dive as quickly as possible in the event of danger. It was a clear moonlit night and the sea was as smooth as glass. There were a few wisps of clouds here and there; it looked as if the water were blending with the night air. Mr. Kroeze, the Second Officer, had eagle eyes. He always saw everything; it was incredible."

 

"Bies, three rings...!":

 

At around 12:30 a.m., the O 21 passed a neutral Spaniard and reached the Spanish coast near Albacore.

 

Biesemaat continues, "Mr. Kroeze suddenly says to me, 'Bies, three rings...!' So I ring the bell in the tower hatch three times, which means alarm and that the commander must report to the bridge and the head of the engine room to the engine room. The captain comes rushing in and asks Kroeze what's going on. 'I see a silhouette directly ahead,' he says. We look but no one can see what it was. You could only see a bow wave. I couldn't look because I was on the forward watch. We were close to the Spanish coast and lights were twinkling everywhere. It was possible that there were more enemy ships in the area. You never knew."

 

Watch officer Kroeze and Commander van Dulm consult between themselves. The young sailor is unable to clearly make out what they are discussing.

 

Aiming by Thumb:

 

Biesemaat continues, "And then the commander says, 'two engines slower'. We were moving quickly at the time. And naturally the bow wave was approaching quickly. I think it's a submarine, says Kroeze. Suddenly a blue light flickers behind us. Someone was signalling with a covered light. The light flickers again as our English signalman/telegraphist Rees climbs the stairs. Rees doesn't recognize the code. We then know for sure that we're dealing with a German submarine. The commander ordered full speed ahead, because you shouldn't let such a boat get too close or it will fire. We had used up almost all our torpedoes during the patrol. We didn't have a single torpedo left at forward and not one shell left for the deck gun. Only two torpedoes left in the aft tubes, no more. The commander gives the order to 'reverse' and then 'stop the engines'. The submarine approaches us at high speed. Now it is simply a matter of which one of us is going to be the first to fire; after all, we're lined up opposite one another. The commander is on the bridge casing because he doesn't have any more direction indicators, not a damn thing." (My father stands up, looks intensively at his arm stretched out with his thumb sticking up.) "The commander aims with his thumb over the bridge casing. 'Fire!' he cries. The torpedo is launched in the direction of the submarine. By the way, I only know this by word of mouth because naturally I had to keep an eye on the situation ahead.

 

Because the weather was good and there was a full moon, the U-boat must have seen the torpedo coming because it turned to port. This probably deflected the torpedo, which didn't explode. As the U-boat turns away, we turn with it. The commander is still on the casing of the bridge and the chief officer, while looking over his thumb across the stern, cries, 'Fire!' Our second torpedo hits the U-boat precisely behind the tower. In its throes of death the U-boat sticks straight up into the air. And then disappears into the depths… You could instantly smell cordite (torpedo explosive)." The O 21 made good speed and about-faced to return to the place where a short but fierce battle had just been fought. The Dutchmen did not know whether there were any more U-boats in the area.

 

Cries of Distress in the Night:

 

When a submarine is destroyed, attempts are always made to collect a piece of evidence. A large oil slick floats on the water and they try to collect a sample of it. For this reason, the O 21 also searched the area where the German submarine was torpedoed.

 

Biesemaat continues, "We were nearby when we heard cries for help in three or four different languages. The commander had already fished 22 Italians out of the water, so he says, 'We should get them out'. We see the Germans swimming and holding onto each other. One of them is unconscious and is being held above water by the others. He's the helmsman who was blown off the bridge. Because I'm small, I'm able to sit on the braces of the protective cover of the hydroplanes. You're then sitting a little bit above the water. In that way I was able to grab a guy by the wrist and pull him up, after which he was handed over to someone sitting on the hydroplanes. Our engines were stopped at this time. Fuel oil was floating on the water everywhere and there was this awful cordite smell. A truly disgusting stench! So we pull up the Germans. They aren't even on deck and the German commander Gerd Schreiber starts mouthing off! He was a highly experienced submarine commander. He starts yelling at his men who had just been rescued, 'Maul halten, nichts sagen!'. Gerd Schreiber also wanted to congratulate our commander for the good shot! Van Dulm then screams at Schreiber, 'That's none of your business, keep your big mouth shut, you have no authority here, go down immediately'.

 

The German survivors of the U-boat were locked up in the aft torpedo room of the O 21 after being given dry overalls. Twelve Germans were fished out of the water by the O 21, among them the submarine ace Gerd Schreiber as well as a war correspondent who was present on the bridge in order to record the glorious moment of the annihilation of an Allied ship on film. It's all in the game!

 

Biesemaat continues, "The Germans have all kinds of good equipment on them. Good quality binoculars in watertight cases with chamois cloths for cleaning them. Much better equipment than we had. The German sailors are relatively quiet, but the officers continue to mouth off. Because I was one of the youngest sailors I have to fetch coffee for the Germans. I only brought it to the sailors, not the officers. I had no interest in bringing them coffee. When the commander instructs me to do so, I tell him I need to go on watch again. The cook then told do it but, because he's from Rotterdam, (that had been bombed by the Germans a year earlier), he initially refuses. But the commander insists. Our telegraphist Joop van der Pijl, a big guy, keeps them covered with a gun. But you had to be careful. If one of the German officers goes to the head you need to go with him because they leave the outboard valve open in an attempt to flood the boat. That's what those guys are like, not the sailors, but the officers. They tried that at least once."

 

The Jolly Roger of the O 21:

 

It was only a few hours sailing from where the unique battle between the submarines had taken place and the home base. The O 21 passed through the opened harbour barrage of Gibraltar with its proud crew.

 

Biesemaat continues, "We formed into line proudly in our white sweaters with the jolly roger fluttering from the raised periscope. A brand-new red, white and blue flag had also been raised. The entire fleet is in a state of commotion as we enter the harbour of Gibraltar. Admiral Sir James Somerville is standing on the shore, an impressive sight. The crews of battleships are all lined up and forming a front. Sinking such a German submarine sure produces quite an effect. The commander is immediately given the DSO, which is pretty much the highest honour a foreigner can get from the English."

 

The English Admiralty was extremely pleased with the destruction of the U-boat. As it happens, fourteen days prior to the destruction of the U 95, a U-boat sank the famous aircraft carrier H.M.S. Ark Royal. Every sunken U-boat was one less threat from the German submarine weapon. The O 21 made a unique record with the destruction of the German U-boat, the only above water battle between

SOURCE

[Eyeless_Camper]

Seems like there was quite abit of Sub vs Sub battles  :Smile_great:

[Super_Dreadnought]

Perhaps the bigger question would be how common was sub vs sub combat?

[JeeWeeJ]

Eyeless_Camper, on 06 January 2013 - 08:34 PM, said:

Seems like there was quite abit of Sub vs Sub battles  :Smile_great:

Yup, but most of them had one (or more) sub on the surface. As someone else stated earlier, i believe there was only one submerged sub vs sub battle in WW2.

[El3m3nttt]

t42592, on 06 January 2013 - 08:20 PM, said:

We're not in that thread, Crag_r; and this is a reply to the OP.  I'm going to ignore for the moment this failed  troll attempt.

And my handle here is not NUMBERS, Crag_r.  This is the only time I will remind you of that.  The next time I will report it, again.

Crag, t42 what have I told you about this before, I said don't do it again or it is out of my hands, you have broken the chance and the Moderators are now aware of this.

[anonym_auUiRfWCi1jI]

Stop right there, Elm3ntt.  We've buried the axes.  Your two-cents are not necessary.

[El3m3nttt]

t42592, on 06 January 2013 - 09:48 PM, said:

Stop right there, Elm3nttt.  We've buried the axes.

​Gimme the axes and I'll make sure they are obliterated, I don't need people who are friends fighting over this when I am here, when I leave this forum in a year then you can continue your disagreements, but when I am here I don't want to watch two people try getting each other banned over a thing that shouldn't be talked about in the public, me and JeeWee have told you to stop the argument or continue it in a private message.

[Crag_r]

El3m3nttt, on 06 January 2013 - 09:52 PM, said:

​Gimme the axes and I'll make sure they are obliterated, I don't need people who are friends fighting over this when I am here, when I leave this forum in a year then you can continue your disagreements, but when I am here I don't want to watch two people try getting each other banned over a thing that shouldn't be talked about in the public, me and JeeWee have told you to stop the argument or continue it in a private message.

^ as in we have stopped any arguing

[El3m3nttt]

Crag_r, on 06 January 2013 - 09:53 PM, said:

^ as in we have stopped any arguing

And both of you are showing early warning signs of another spark to ignite it, I should know cause I've been on both ends of an argument of this caliber and it isn't a fun thing when a Moderator watches you then deems you fit for a posting ban or a full ban, I just don't need it happening here, think of me as an Angel in these cases, I just want this forum to be without a constant source of friction between people because of a rule broken, some people take things too light some take them too serious, I am a mix of both of these in some cases, it isn't a good thing.

[Crag_r]

El3m3nttt, on 06 January 2013 - 10:01 PM, said:

And both of you are showing early warning signs of another spark to ignite it, I should know cause I've been on both ends of an argument of this caliber and it isn't a fun thing when a Moderator watches you then deems you fit for a posting ban or a full ban, I just don't need it happening here, think of me as an Angel in these cases, I just want this forum to be without a constant source of friction between people because of a rule broken, some people take things too light some take them too serious, I am a mix of both of these in some cases, it isn't a good thing.

^ as in we have stopped any arguing after those posts were made

[anonym_auUiRfWCi1jI]

Your two-cents do not inspire peace... and this position to moderate the forums is grinding on many here.  I suggest you try another tact, such as a PM.  Or, you can utilize the report function.

[El3m3nttt]

t42592, on 06 January 2013 - 10:04 PM, said:

Your two-cents do not inspire peace... and this position to moderate the forums is grinding on many here.  I suggest you try another tact, such as a PM.  Or, you can utilize the report function.

That's an issue I have a 1 Chance policy but I'm trying to restrict it to a 3 Chance policy, and I don't use the report function most of the time because I need a huge reason before it is a viable idea, so I try to keep people from going further then if they continue then I report, and I don't say if I reported said person because they'll think it's a bluff to make them stop.

[Super_Dreadnought]

In before the lock?

 

t42 and Crag say they've made peace. Let's leave it at that and not derail this topic any further. Continuing on would be much ado about nothing.

[Crag_r]

http://www.filehurri...RailedTopic.jpg

 

Subs shooting other subs

[anonym_auUiRfWCi1jI]

And besides that, discussing such actions is forbidden in these forums, and many other forums that I've been associated with.  Pouring salt into an already raw situation makes for poor community support.

 

But hey, we're all on the same side right now, and things are shaping up in the forums.  We can grind these axes when we're on opposite teams, targeting each other with our main guns!  Just remember that at the beginning of the game to send some love across the map, "GL & HF".   :Smile_great:

 

El3m3nttt, on 06 January 2013 - 10:11 PM, said:

That's an issue I have a 1 Chance policy but I'm trying to restrict it to a 3 Chance policy, and I don't use the report function most of the time because I need a huge reason before it is a viable idea, so I try to keep people from going further then if they continue then I report, and I don't say if I reported said person because they'll think it's a bluff to make them stop.

http://ucae.uncc.edu...rack edited.jpg

 

Yes, Crag.

[sgtpepper500]

Well that was enough forum drama for the year lol.

 

Anyways besides that I like this topic. Haven't seen much on sub vs sub combat. That may be because it almost never happened xD.

[Lemelisk1]

sub vs sub combat was really really rare, but it did happen occasionally

[sharlin648]

I remember reading there was even some sub vs sub combat in WW1 the RN even designed a class as sub hunters, but yes, it was VERY rare.