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Submarine game play: Workable and fun.

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Submarines are very slow, and have high alpha strike. To prevent such a potent class from dominating the game, it's best to slowly increase their ability as a game goes on.

I propose two concepts: 

 

First concept: Shallow water submarines, limited to "shallow" waters around islands. The design reason for this is to gently point novice players in the correct direction; a wayward course might make them useless to the team. 

Careful crafting of the map steers the players to combat. This creates the scenario for submarine vs submarine combat that is desired. For early tiers 1-4, submarines might be limited to only submerged conditions and speeds,

with far more risky surface travel limited to higher tiers.

 

Second concept: The second concept could be a possible higher tier play style, for when players understand submarines. Submarines are initially limited to shallow waters like the first concept,

 but capturing a point in the middle starts a countdown to allowing complete map travel. To not make the game unfair and unbalanced, after a penalty period, the other team also gets the ability to roam the entire map.

This allows late game play by submarines. Subs are far too slow to catch any other ships unless surfaced. Late game submarines can take great risks on the surface to catch up to their prey, or take crucial bases. Risk

creates rewards!

 

I present two maps with the overall concept. The first concept would lack the middle cap, and players would not be able to travel the entire map. There would be a path for capture of the enemy base in both concepts.

 

subs1.thumb.jpg.8d9c9ba4c9f76f0562108d020586111c.jpg

subs2.thumb.jpg.505d787b75c3cf8094ee0bdff690cfe8.jpg

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Congratulations, i believe this is the First submarine thread of 2019, and unbelievably the trolls Gave up on Messing with them. The hype now is the CV rework. Anyway the results of the subs test on Halloween event werent released to the community or I'm Very misinformed. I dont think subs Will be introduced to the game anytime soon. At least not for 2019.

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14 minutes ago, demeflac said:

Congratulations, i believe this is the First submarine thread of 2019, and unbelievably the trolls Gave up on Messing with them. The hype now is the CV rework. Anyway the results of the subs test on Halloween event werent released to the community or I'm Very misinformed. I dont think subs Will be introduced to the game anytime soon. At least not for 2019.

Subs are too powerful. It's take a VC and multiply by ten. or, to put it into the words of a (Alleged) US Submarine commander:

There are two types of boats in the navy - submarines and targets.

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I want to play "Rock, Paper, Scissors", not "Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock".

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Interesting ideas and I commend you for your efforts and ideas.

I don't think confining submarines to any one area is a good idea. Let them roam wherever so as to not have some area of the map that is a potential "Hang Out" zone. Allowing them to roam will encourage people to get creative in luring submarines out into the open for example where they can be disposed of by surface vessels. They should spawn close to the center of the map already and they could choose to go out open water or to proceed to the center of the map offering both options to the sub commander as far as where and how to engage the enemy.

My 2 cents...

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You do realize that WGs vision of subs does not have them being really slow right?

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4 hours ago, demeflac said:

Anyway the results of the subs test on Halloween event werent released to the community or I'm Very misinformed. I dont think subs Will be introduced to the game anytime soon. At least not for 2019.

WG did release the results on the feedback of the Halloween event.  WG is moving forward with subs.  I think I saw something showing a fourth quarter release date.

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Forum - 'we detest camping BB not moving up'

Your idea - further dis-incentivize BB moving up, because there's a submarine they can't hurt camped out in the spawn.

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Interesting. Subs are not in the game not because they are too strong but rather because they were too week. 

Still looking forward to them. 

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4 hours ago, C_D said:

Interesting ideas and I commend you for your efforts and ideas.

I don't think confining submarines to any one area is a good idea. Let them roam wherever so as to not have some area of the map that is a potential "Hang Out" zone. Allowing them to roam will encourage people to get creative in luring submarines out into the open for example where they can be disposed of by surface vessels. They should spawn close to the center of the map already and they could choose to go out open water or to proceed to the center of the map offering both options to the sub commander as far as where and how to engage the enemy.

My 2 cents...

This. Submarines can be balanced as a high risk/high reward ship. They have a very low HP pool, are slow, have limited maneuverability and are especially vulnerable to planes & DDs, in return they can potentially deal a lot of damage. Having more CVs in the game will only make life harder on Subs. Because they are so damn slow and have a limited torpedo range they will probably hang out around heavily trafficked routes & island passes and hope for a lazy, careless player to pass by. Their poor speed will limit their range so you won't have to worry about them going far.

I think the Subs combined with the CV rework can add more balance and dimension to the game. Hell, one of DDs main duties was hunting/screening for subs. WG could also implement depth charges!

This game needs some variety and balance to breathe life back into it. Plus, subs could wreak havoc on your [edited] teammates that huddle behind the islands and refuse to support their team (as could CVs). All of these combined threats would encourage players to work together as a group. Cowardly/Selfish players focused on themselves would be the first to be picked off by both CVs/Subs. I see this as a good thing.

Edited by Code_Slinger
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First, thank you for actually putting thought into your proposal.

Second, I think you have correctly identified that subs will need to start closer to the center of the map than the rest of the fleet, due to their need for pre-positioning in order to be interesting.

Third, I think that this points out a major systemwide drawback of reworking the core game types to include submarines: they don't do well with multiple caps. You showed Standard Battles map layouts, presumably because this allows for a concentration of submarines in zones that are likely to be utilized, and that are victory-relevant. However, the Domination battle type would place a great amount of stress on submarines due to their immobility. Unfortunately, Standard Battles are already well-noted as an inferior experience for the rest of the ship types, as they lead to campy gameplay. This would need to be reconciled, and that may be very difficult, or potentially impossible.

Fourth, I don't think the shallow water distinction is viable. It's very awkward for subs to run into an artificial wall based on the match timer. Plus, what happens to subs on Ocean?

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Fifth, subs have no place in the framework of this game, and cannot be made to feel like actual subs in any way, while fun to play as and fun to play against.

 

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1 minute ago, KilljoyCutter said:

Fifth, subs have no place in the framework of this game, and cannot be made to feel like actual subs in any way, while fun to play as and fun to play against.

 

Unless WG can and they do. 

The Halloween test was fun to play and did "feel" like subs to me. So that is one check. If WG can make the anti sub play fun... well we will be having fun doing that as well. 

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41 minutes ago, paradat said:

Unless WG can and they do. 

The Halloween test was fun to play and did "feel" like subs to me. So that is one check. If WG can make the anti sub play fun... well we will be having fun doing that as well. 

To me it was a grind that I suffered through because they linked it to an otherwise unrelated event/chain, and it felt nothing like subs, at all.   It felt like cartoon botes for a cartoon event. 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

To me it was a grind that I suffered through because they linked it to an otherwise unrelated event/chain, and it felt nothing like subs, at all.   It felt like cartoon botes for a cartoon event. 

 

 

Will have to wait and see what the final gameplay ends up being like. I think I have more faith in WG than most players.

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