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Summon3r

so radar?

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6 hours ago, _WaveRider_ said:

I believe radar was a good edition to the game. I don't even mind the current way it works, as it isn't as if it isn't well known!

My only problem was always going to be just how many there could be in a particular match - more and more there are 3+ ships with radar and I do believe this does stop DDs operating in the role they should play - with CV play coming back I am not sure whether this will make matters worse.

TLDR: Radar = variety, challenge = good addition to the game.....if managed correctly (numbers, not ability). :Smile_honoring:

The Amount of radar ships per side is climbing, it's a rare sigh of relief when there is only 2 per team.

Just had this battle 6 radar on the red team 4 on mine, it's not fun to play around, too many dds is not fun so they capped it. 2 CVs per side at high tier was not fun so they capped it.

Too much radar is not fun and it needs to be capped because DDs are the only ships that have to go wide and sit back at times because of radar, there is no dodging radar if you are in range, you get spotted if you're in range period.

 

You can dodge torps if in range you can dodge shells.

 

NOT FUN.

jROahR.png

Most DDs didn't live.

eCBttR.png

 

I could of lived if i ignored the caps for 95% of the battle in this other battle and that had only 3 per side.

Notice the DD that lived is a rus gunboat that kites around and does not go into the caps much.

And notice how all the dds  that are not rus gunboats are at the bottom in team score on both sides.

LO9Aog.png

Edited by Final8ty
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1 hour ago, KnyxUDL said:

Just because it is well beyond your level of understanding, does not make it incorrect. People fear what they don't understand, and your small little one sentence response offers evidence to such.

And you think your copy-paste wall-of-text from logicallyfallacious.com proves you're more intellegent?

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11 minutes ago, RyuuohD_NA said:

And you think your copy-paste wall-of-text from logicallyfallacious.com proves you're more intellegent?

Yes, yes he does.....

What is ironic, is that he has this higher understanding, yet fails to understand that if you're going to argue with those of lesser intellect, you can't just show them a bunch of data, you have to lead them by the hand and explain, step by step, how you arrived at your conclusions.

Edited by Skpstr
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12 minutes ago, RyuuohD_NA said:

And you think your copy-paste wall-of-text from logicallyfallacious.com proves you're more intellegent?

Where did I copy and paste?  This is simply you again failing to provide any substance and coherency to address what you rather emotionally dismissed. Now you are making claims without even specifying and adhering to the burden of proof. Was this supposed to invoke an emotional response from me? I am sorry to disappoint you again. Perhaps educate yourself and you will find yourself in less situations where you have been found wanting.

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2 minutes ago, Final8ty said:

And the battle im on right now.

LwxtdX.png

Lol yeah, it probably wouldn't hurt to cap them at 3 a side, if possible.

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3 hours ago, Asym_KS said:

This is simple:  we as a game, have lost population to radar....  HE spam has a counter.  Radar does not.  There is no mitigation against the all seeing eye !  Once it is on, everyone is seen with 100% precision and even if you were playing smart, the game is over when the 11K radar out distances you guns and most importantly, your torpedoes....  You can't shoot from beyond the radar coverage so why are you there?  There are scant points in spotting?

Good grief guys.  The pro-Radar CPT's are the crew that "farm using a no skill tool"....  Smoke has a solid counter.......it's not fool proof and everything goes through smoke and can kill !   Radar is a no skill game damage multiplier.....

What has been destroyed are the traditional roles of the WW2 DD:  scouting danger close to the enemy....  Taking your shot, if you have an opportunity and running like heck....  Now, you see DD's trolling just outside of the caps and the enemy waiting for them behind Islands to trip the radar dome.....  Put 4 radar ships in a game and you have well over 6 minutes of cap coverage what the good guys can't do a single thing against.....  Them with the most radar ships wins and that is why we have stopped playing random's.....  And, several have left the game: some permanently and a lot are retired until radar has a hard counter.  Ever seem a division of three tier 7 radar ships in a tier 5 random?  Game after game after game slaughters.  Ever see a tier 10 match without radar?  Ranked at tier 7 and up without radar?   Nope, I parked the 5.4 detect DD because it "just isn't value-added" anymore because radar is a no skill hard counter to stealth.  And, to make matters even worse, radar can out distance the max firing range of torps..........so, why play a DD when there is so little value to be made in a game????  Not cost effective nor, more importantly, fun.   And, to the haters, we took hunter killer radar mounted Cruisers divisions out to test the effectiveness of "trapping radar coverage's": where you intentionally combine cruisers that can overlap coverage distances and put pauses in between active on periods........a massacre event it be !  "It's safe !!!  Boom, got ya !  Bad, DD....."  Take that into tier 5 and ...............

No, radar is a gimmick that has ruined the game since it has no "hard counter" to it.   Give the DD's a ARM launcher that replaces a gun turret and that has a 12K range and a 80% first round hit percentage (radar must be active on) and then, let's see what radar ships do or how the game evolves back to where it was before the cruiser line split.........and, a few players might just come back!

Pure Hysteria. Hysterically amusing to read. 

Edited by thebigblue
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2 hours ago, Skpstr said:

Here's the thing. You have 14 other minutes to work with. If you get the CAs chaining radar, you go to another cap. If you get lit, you run directly away from the radar ship. If you can't see him, run away from the most likely island. (he can't chase you from behind an island)

Now yes, the radar ship can hold off on radar until you get closer, but to do that, he has to know you're there. If he's in the open, you'll spot him before you even get into radar range. (no ship has a radar range greater than its concealment anymore) If he's behind an island, you can't spot him, so how does he know you're there?

If you're seeing a 3-ship div of Atlantas/Indianapoli, game after game, then it's you who's running it, because I've only seen it twice.

Because, as I'm finding out, it's hella fun!

Look, as they sit there they are capping.....  You can't get in to move them unless there is a CV...  If every cap has radar ships, run to where?  They don't have to "chase" you !  I've been deleted from across the map once the radar goes "on" from BB's I can't even see !  You have a valid and positive response but, unfortunately, most games I've played don't work that way....   He knows you are there from the mini-map !  Especially, if you were spotted before or earlier in the game.  You had to go somewhere !

We've never gone into Tier 5 to farm....  We got placed in tier 5 experimenting twice and that was an uncomfortable experience so we split up....  for weeks after the cruiser line split, there was nothing but radar ships either in divisions from clans or making a division up during that game....  The worst were the pre-made division because they were on TS/DC because they had a clear plan and method of farming....  You were either lucky or...............I didn't see your name this time !

I love - loved DD's in this game.  Now, the meta has chased me off because there is no counter.  Too many "where the heck did that detonation come from?" events.   No place to run and to way to respond........you just die because a no skill commodity circumvents everything else in the game and make hitting you way to easy......  Even now, since the IJN now has gun boats, sitting in Cap C and someone lights off radar in B and that Kagero is in between B & C and you eat their lunch and there's nothing that CPT can do but die!  A great sneak and a no skill "tool" ruined a lot of work and skill........  And, for that CPT, yet another senseless "radar death".....

14 minutes to work with?  For whom?  The BB's and radar ships?  Most of us DD's that are trying to "break even" in the radar meta are usually dead....  Especially, if there is a CV as well....  We've had entire games that were CV spotted, radar spotted, CV spotted, Radar spotted and we never really got half way through the map !  Balance isn't where a ship class is degraded by the use of a consumable !!!  Balance is achieved in trade off's of weapons, movement, protection or volume of fire capabilities.........radar has no equivalent balance metric.....it is effective no matter where, or when or how ever used and NOTHING affects that......there is no balance....

Sorry, I don't mean to rant.  I like this game and radar has cause friends to leave and it has ruined the over all experience.....radar has a place, but, in that place there needs to be something to "balance" that consumable......or, it ceases to be nothing more than a meta sales gimmick.  Again, apologies.....It just frustrates me to no end..........

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2 minutes ago, thebigblue said:

Pure Hysteria. Hysterically amusing to read. 

Not when customers walk out!   And, it is funny that WG would do this......  Not unexpected though.....  I can't wait till we get into the cold war ships and weapons...... 

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Just now, Asym_KS said:

Not when customers walk out!   And, it is funny that WG would do this......  Not unexpected though.....  I can't wait till we get into the cold war ships and weapons...... 

You keep saying this.

And it keeps not happening.

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I don't dislike radar in the game but when you get more than 4 per side it does drag the game down in enjoyment for me in my DDs.

 When I fly cruisers or battleships or carriers it doesn't matter to me it doesn't affect my game but in DDs it does.  So I can understand the bias out there if you're not a destroyer person. But I think there should be a cap on how many in game and I also think there should be balance per side at least.

 

 And on a side note the looming CV re work I think it's more of a concern right now for me.  I sure hope it goes good otherwise it will be time to move on.

Edited by silverdahc

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"Just because Nick Saban has won 12 Champiomships doesn't mean he's a good football coach!"

DD mafia gang probably.

Radar is pretty much not an issue except on the Belfast. You just have to play heads up and use those brain cells.

Ask if you're having problems with it in a certain ship. Plenty of good experienced people with exceptionally high success in them can provide tips.

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18 minutes ago, Asym_KS said:

Look, as they sit there they are capping.....  You can't get in to move them unless there is a CV... 

Well yeah, if the enemy has radar ships and you don't, you are kind of screwed, but if you have radar ships, it should be a stalemate.

Quote

If every cap has radar ships, run to where? 

If every cap has radar ships, they can't chain it very well. You bait the radar, and then go back later.

Quote

They don't have to "chase" you !  I've been deleted from across the map once the radar goes "on" from BB's I can't even see !

What I meant was, they can't "chase" you with the radar bubble, meaning you can go dark again if you didn't get too close.

Quote

He knows you are there from the mini-map !  Especially, if you were spotted before or earlier in the game.  You had to go somewhere !

That's just it though. If he doesn't know exactly where you are, and which way you're going, he can't know he's going to sucker you in close, he can only guess. For all he knows, he's only going to light you up for a second or two before you're out of range and disappear again.

I don't have much DD experience, and almost none with the kind of radar saturation Final8ty speaks of, but I am running into a fair bit of radar in the T9 & 8 games I'm in, and I'm finding the most dangerous radar is in open water, moving towards you in head-on fashion. In those cases, yeah, you aren't getting away from the radar before it runs out.

What is working for me is avoiding direct approaches to locations where I suspect radar. If I make oblique approaches, when I get lit, I can get away from the radar without having to drop a bunch of speed doing a 180.

Quote

14 minutes to work with?  For whom?  

You said 6 minutes of radar for 4 radar ships. That potentially leaves 14 minutes without any radar. If I get radared in a cap, I bail, and come back a minute later, or try to work around and spot the radar ship, if I think it's somewhere allies can hit it.

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21 minutes ago, Madwolf05 said:

Ask if you're having problems with it in a certain ship. Plenty of good experienced people with exceptionally high success in them can provide tips.

I'm sure I will be when I get my T8s lol.

As far as the T7s I'm currently playing, I think I'm doing a not horrible job of figuring it out for myself.

The biggest thing that I think helps me was playing DDs in low-tier Ranked. There, I'm concerned with spotting and capping, I don't mind if my guns and tubes never fire, if it helps us win.

That carries over for me, I don't go after enemy ships unless they're targets of opportunity, or it's later in the game, and we're up on DDs, and I can afford to slack off on spotting and capping. Pretty much every time I die quickly, it's because I specifically singled out and went after an enemy ship, like I might with a BB or CA.

Edited by Skpstr
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Radar is so awesome on the Indy. Saturday we caught 2 Fubuki's touching hulls, sitting in smoke, and managed to RNG miss my first salvo (they were sitting still), and then hit 2 shells of 6 on the 2nd before Radar went out. Our BB didn't get a salvo off in time, and our other Cruiser didn't get many hits.

One DD comes firing out of the smoke like as Radar fades, and before I can knock get 3 salvos off to bring him down to a quarter HP and kill him a BB salvo barely misses the island from 14km away, and dev strikes me.

Both DDs live despite being "hard countered" and playing like newbies.

Nerf Radar.

K.

 

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3 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

I'm sure I will be when I get my T8s lol.

As far as the T7s I'm currently playing, I think I'm doing a not horrible job of figuring it out for myself.

The biggest thing that I think helps me was playing DDs in low-tier Ranked. There, I'm concerned with spotting and capping, I don't mind if my guns and tubes never fire, if it helps us win.

That carries over for me, I don't go after enemy ships unless they're targets of opportunity, or it's later in the game, and we're up on DDs, and I can afford to slack off on spotting and capping. Pretty much every time I die quickly, it's because I specifically singled out and went after an enemy ship, like I might with a BB or CA.

Good work so far. The guys in o7 and 007 gave me a lot of help and tasks. Hit me up uf you want to div sometime.

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3 minutes ago, Madwolf05 said:

Good work so far. The guys in o7 and 007 gave me a lot of help and tasks. Hit me up uf you want to div sometime.

Thanks, will do. (just gotta remember to get a new mic to replace the one my kid fed to the dog lol)

I'll be honest, the main reason I decided to grind DDs was so I could better argue with KiyoSenkan lol.

But I'm glad I did, whole other type of gameplay I was missing.

Edited by Skpstr
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58 minutes ago, DrHolmes52 said:

You keep saying this.

And it keeps not happening.

Patience !  There is only one way WG can go..........forward in time.  When they need revenue, their start up  an era advancement.  Patience.  Just like Subs..... Or missiles....... Or, Radar............

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As a IJN DD Main, radar is fine. It just pushes engagement ranges in the first part of the game out further.

You can uses the 12 KM torpedos for the Shimakaze and be pretty safe attacking at 9 to 10 KM.

Playing the Kamikaze, you get up tiered a lot. With some smart careful play, she still works well.

LOS would be a good change. Radar is kinda like Star Trek scanners now.

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IMHO , the biggest mistake they made in the game in relation to radar was allowing radar on another class outside of CA's/CL  (Missouri) 

The biggest culprit of Radar imbalance is when a pack of missouri's show up in a match, it messes with the MM in the way it attributes radar ships per team. 

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43 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

Thanks, will do. (just gotta remember to get a new mic to replace the one my kid fed to the dog lol)

I'll be honest, the main reason I decided to grind DDs was so I could better argue with KiyoSenkan lol.

But I'm glad I did, whole other type of gameplay I was missing.

Lol I kind of did too.

DDs are a lot of fun, but they can be so frustrating at times too. There's nothing worse than having like 8 ships behind you and 4 enemy ships in front, but watching as your team does 0 damage as all 8 of them sink while you manage to sink 1 or 2 of the enemy ships.

Makes me lose faith in humanity. Lol.

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Just now, Madwolf05 said:

Lol I kind of did too.

DDs are a lot of fun, but they can be so frustrating at times too. There's nothing worse than having like 8 ships behind you and 4 enemy ships in front, but watching as your team does 0 damage as all 8 of them sink while you manage to sink 1 or 2 of the enemy ships.

Makes me lose faith in humanity. Lol.

You're ahead of me, I'm so focussed on where I am in relation to spotted enemies and caps, and watching my concealment, that I rarely have a clue what any teammates beyond 10km away are doing.... :Smile_veryhappy:

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1 hour ago, Asym_KS said:

Patience !  There is only one way WG can go..........forward in time.  When they need revenue, their start up  an era advancement.  Patience.  Just like Subs..... Or missiles....... Or, Radar............

My point is you are ruining the now for you, in hopes that the future will be better.

Find what in the game you like and use it.

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22 minutes ago, DrHolmes52 said:

My point is you are ruining the now for you, in hopes that the future will be better.

Find what in the game you like and use it.

Alas, I enjoy DD's and the DD's traditional roles....  Radar precludes that.  So, I am stuck at the lower tiers at best........  Even Tier 5 has been invaded and somewhat messed up.  One radar ship at that level causes the entire other team to shift away from that side of the map....  The team with the radar takes that ship in a murder ball and can command two caps without firing a shot.....game over....  More than 1 radar ship:  game over.   And, radar is not balanced (mirrored) by team either so there are many games where one teams has all of the radar.    Took a Tier 8 DD out the other night.....4 radar ships against 0 in random.  I lasted the entire game, avoiding radar zones of death, shot no less than 45 torpedoes at max range and hit 1 late game.....an accident.  Another radar stomp for the books.  DbR is the short hand in chat:  Dead by Radar.

I do see your point and now, only play COOP for the vast majority of my time in-game.  What's left of our clan is a division and we play two or three randoms matches a night (most at -2 tier levels and lose most of the games we play....)  The "fun" level has been lost on us.....it's a matter of time till there is no more clan. 

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16 hours ago, Summon3r said:

i see a lot of comments about how  bad radar is for the game.

is this a pretty common theme throughout the community? the more i play the game the more i tend to think radar does not add any positive to the game at all.

ESPECIALLY considering it has mystical powers and is able to go through land.... lol?

There is no consumable to remove armor from a BB. There is no consumable to reduce the fire rate of a CA. There is a consumable to remove stealth from a DD. 

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