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Ensign_Cthulhu

Random Thoughts from Deep R'lyeh: The Mathematics of PEF.

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Task: To complete Directive Four of the "In the Name Of His Highness" campaign and win the ship's gold value.

Tools: PEF herself. A broad selection of tech-tree and premium British and US destroyers, cruisers and battleships from Tiers 5 to 10. Warships premium time. The latter cost me $63 CDN; the doubloon value of the ship is just under $40. In effect I will be making back 6800 of the 12000 doubloons I spent on my discount year of Warships premium.

The Requirement: 4 million in the PEF, standing in for and hopefully reduplicating in parallel the effort across multiple nations. (We are in for disappointment if this turns out not to be the case.) and one other nation.

The Maths:

Taking each of the PEF and "other nation" over a week each, this will be accomplished by:

1) Six random games a night, each yielding 100,000 silver in gross earnings, or equivalent in co-op, for each of seven nights, in PEF. Maximum time required - a little over two hours (6 x 20 minutes, plus a few minutes in between each to get the next battle started.)

2) Six random games a night, conditions as above, in ships of "other nation". 

Total - 84 battles, projected. 

The kicker - do I have enough credit-boosting flags and camo for 84 battles? Do I even need them?

For PEF, the answer is probably yes; at the start, take the best credit-boosting camo and a Zulu flag and see what the results are like. Add a Wyvern if necessary.

For the high-tier premiums in whichever other nation I select - Zulu or Wyvern alone may be enough, especially if taking Salem, where the ship's native camo is necessary to get the best service cost reduction and run economically in a continuous hard grind. I know that doesn't affect the earnings for this mission, but I don't want to bleed credits if I do badly.

 

Reassessment may be necessary after the first night. We will see how things go.

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I have two accounts: One with, and the other without the PEF. On the PEF side, I've completed the steel, the campaign, and the collection. All it needs to do now is a few missions to get a refund on the PEF. Even WITH the PEF, the grind is going to be painful. That 3M credits for the last part of the steel campaign took a week of alternating between Ranked and Co-Op. The x300 XP missions ran out long before it was really needed at the end. Wish we could pause and save those.. but reasons. ... ... On the Non-PEF (older/larger) account, I planned to tackle the 6 nation thing and earn one. I wrote down on the calendar the expire dates of the missions.. and discovered that I'm going to miss the Campaign ending. At best I'll beat my way through the first couple, but that's it. And so, I'm giving myself tonight to decide to BUY a second PEF for my other account... or simply forget it. If I get it, I can grind out the steel for the Flint. Do I need the Flint? Nope. If I wanted camo for the Dallas, I'd buy it for $5. ... ... I'm leaning towards free-xp the Midway on the main account, and grind out the refund on the 2nd one. The PEF is nothing bu a T6 Kongo that's good for ramming and secondary brawling. I've even ram-killed an Atago in the nose and survived - before it could launch torps. I was thinking of going with the STEEL MONSTERS mission instead of the PEF.. and I might do that given I was also tempted to by more camo/flag gift boxes. And I have 180 days to finish that... and I appreciate not being on a tight schedule. Choices.. choices...

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Is this directive really that hard. Since it is based on Gross credit earnings? Seems like normal random battles should rack this up fairly quickly. 

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I've been farming @200-250k earnings on coop play alone (T8-10) . And I'm mostly using tech tree ships for missions. It should be doable . Easy peasy. Now if you are a lucky enough to have premium ships like Mighty Mo.Tirpitz Musashi.and so on  That should be a cake walk .

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15 minutes ago, Versili said:

I've been farming @200-250k earnings on coop play alone (T8-10)

What sort of flags and camos have you been using? That could make a difference, and some newer players might not have adequate numbers of these. I'll be counting my pennies and probably expending most of what I've got, but the gains are worth it.

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I calculated all that into my assessment. If I could grind that 24M credits out with my Missouri.. Yeah... DONE. But that's not the case. So I have US, IJN, DKM, and some VMF and RN in hand to deal here. That's 5. So that's the Blys, the Lo Yang, or the Duca D'Aosta for the last one. It would have been the Lo Yang. But the time and number of battles is clearly not worth $33 US. This, not to mention flags and camo costs -- since those good ones are not available for credits... maybe coal.. .... ... I'm pretty burned out. You folks do whatever you want. I'll be doing something else - not related to the Christmas stuff.

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Farming damage from secondaries in the Alsace ,GK, Tirpitz and Bismark.  Run a Neptune , Dimitri Donsk. Believe it or not a Hipper for my CAs. .Yugumo and Alizuki and a Kiev for my DDs  I mostly run bare minimum on flags. I forget the name of the flags but improved fire chance and improved secondaries. and Zulu flag. For sure.  I do have premium camos on mostly all my ships it helps to a point .

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2 minutes ago, AVR_Project said:

But the time and number of battles is clearly not worth $33 US.

It's worth it for ONE account, impossible with two unless playing the game is your full-time occupation. You might be best advised at this point to cut your losses, grab the doubloon value on the account which has the ship, and not burn yourself out.

Just now, Versili said:

Run a Neptune

This is one of the options I've considered; run the Neptune as hard as I can, plus other British ships when she's sunk and not available. By the time this is over, I should be a significant proportion of the way toward the Minotaur. 

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I did a test run with the Missouri in a co-op game with every economic flag available AND economic boosting camo.

I exceeded 600,000 gross credits twice in games where I earned approximately 600+ xp.

I purchased PEF specifically for this.  PEF with every econ flag should get 5 of the missions done fairly quickly.  Not Mizzou quick, but quick enough.

I may have to random so watch out you random mains.  I could end up on your team.  :cap_fainting:

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8 minutes ago, Captain_Slattery said:

I may have to random so watch out you random mains.  I could end up on your team.

Duly noted and accepted. 

My research indicates that the best you can do in a single battle is:

Meritorious service camo 50% cash bonus, Wyvern 50%, Basilisk and Leviathan 30 + 20% = another 50%, Zulu 20%, Scylla 25% = 195% of your original cash earnings.

Meritorious service isn't the most common camo, though, but even the more common Hunter (20%), Ocean Soul (20%) and Revolutionary (30%) can produce creditable mega-boosts when stacked with all the flags. 

The question is how long you can keep up the supply of flags and camos for maximum effect.

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2 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Task: To complete Directive Four of the "In the Name Of His Highness" campaign and win the ship's gold value.

Tools: PEF herself. A broad selection of tech-tree and premium British and US destroyers, cruisers and battleships from Tiers 5 to 10. Warships premium time. The latter cost me $63 CDN; the doubloon value of the ship is just under $40. In effect I will be making back 6800 of the 12000 doubloons I spent on my discount year of Warships premium.

The Requirement: 4 million in the PEF, standing in for and hopefully reduplicating in parallel the effort across multiple nations. (We are in for disappointment if this turns out not to be the case.) and one other nation.

The Maths:

Taking each of the PEF and "other nation" over a week each, this will be accomplished by:

1) Six random games a night, each yielding 100,000 silver in gross earnings, or equivalent in co-op, for each of seven nights, in PEF. Maximum time required - a little over two hours (6 x 20 minutes, plus a few minutes in between each to get the next battle started.)

2) Six random games a night, conditions as above, in ships of "other nation". 

Total - 84 battles, projected. 

The kicker - do I have enough credit-boosting flags and camo for 84 battles? Do I even need them?

For PEF, the answer is probably yes; at the start, take the best credit-boosting camo and a Zulu flag and see what the results are like. Add a Wyvern if necessary.

For the high-tier premiums in whichever other nation I select - Zulu or Wyvern alone may be enough, especially if taking Salem, where the ship's native camo is necessary to get the best service cost reduction and run economically in a continuous hard grind. I know that doesn't affect the earnings for this mission, but I don't want to bleed credits if I do badly.

 

Reassessment may be necessary after the first night. We will see how things go.

Salem will do well.  For me, I get about 90K credits Base Earnings in Co-op.  This is near what I get from Musashi and Minotaur in Co-op.  (YMMV, but I think you are the better player.)

Just a few data points for you (average Base Earnings for select US/UK ships, all have more than 10 battles):

  • Minotaur, 88K
  • Sims, 72K (Atlanta and Kidd here as well, but I only limited data on them.)
  • Fletcher, 72K (In the 1 Co-op battle on record, Gearing did better.  Cossack is in this neighborhood, but I only have 3 battles there.)
  • Buffalo, 61K
  • Duke of York, 54K
  • Gallant, 52K (Nelson is near here with only 5 battles)
  • Lightning, 51K
  • Prinz Eitel Friedrich, 40K (German, but included as I know you are using it.)

Premium Time gets you 50% on these off the bat.

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2 minutes ago, YeOldeTraveller said:

Salem will do well.  For me, I get about 90K credits Base Earnings in Co-op.  This is near what I get from Musashi and Minotaur in Co-op.  (YMMV, but I think you are the better player.)

Just a few data points for you (average Base Earnings for select US/UK ships, all have more than 10 battles):

  • Minotaur, 88K
  • Sims, 72K (Atlanta and Kidd here as well, but I only limited data on them.)
  • Fletcher, 72K (In the 1 Co-op battle on record, Gearing did better.  Cossack is in this neighborhood, but I only have 3 battles there.)
  • Buffalo, 61K
  • Duke of York, 54K
  • Gallant, 52K (Nelson is near here with only 5 battles)
  • Lightning, 51K
  • Prinz Eitel Friedrich, 40K (German, but included as I know you are using it.)

Premium Time gets you 50% on these off the bat.

The WoWS prem time is 65%, even better.

Edited by xalmgrey

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8 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

The question is how long you can keep up the supply of flags and camos for maximum effect.

For me, I will be down to Zulu and Leviathan from the third battle.  Camouflage will be 20% for most of the run.

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3 minutes ago, xalmgrey said:

The WoWS prem time is 65%, even better.

IIRC, that is for XP.  50% for credits.

I will be happy to be wrong.

ETA from the Wiki:

A Warships Premium account applies only to World of Warships. It applies a 65% bonus to ship Experience and a 50% bonus to Credits earned.

Edited by YeOldeTraveller
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Just now, YeOldeTraveller said:

IIRC, that is for XP.  50% for credits.

I will be happy to be wrong.

Okay, i might be the one wrong. Not sure now. I'd like to be right because 65% credits sounds so nice.

But yeah you are prolly right now that i think about it.

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Rather than farming Co-Op, it might be better to farm the Scenarios. By the way.. Which Scenario starts on Wednesday... Too bad we can't have easy Dunkirk for two weeks in a row... except one can't bring the PEF in there... on OUR side, that is.. lol I think the PEF secondaries would wipe out half the DD team before drowning in torpedo soup.

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4 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Task: To complete Directive Four of the "In the Name Of His Highness" campaign and win the ship's gold value.

Tools: PEF herself. A broad selection of tech-tree and premium British and US destroyers, cruisers and battleships from Tiers 5 to 10. Warships premium time. The latter cost me $63 CDN; the doubloon value of the ship is just under $40. In effect I will be making back 6800 of the 12000 doubloons I spent on my discount year of Warships premium.

The Requirement: 4 million in the PEF, standing in for and hopefully reduplicating in parallel the effort across multiple nations. (We are in for disappointment if this turns out not to be the case.) and one other nation.

The Maths:

Taking each of the PEF and "other nation" over a week each, this will be accomplished by:

1) Six random games a night, each yielding 100,000 silver in gross earnings, or equivalent in co-op, for each of seven nights, in PEF. Maximum time required - a little over two hours (6 x 20 minutes, plus a few minutes in between each to get the next battle started.)

2) Six random games a night, conditions as above, in ships of "other nation". 

Total - 84 battles, projected. 

The kicker - do I have enough credit-boosting flags and camo for 84 battles? Do I even need them?

For PEF, the answer is probably yes; at the start, take the best credit-boosting camo and a Zulu flag and see what the results are like. Add a Wyvern if necessary.

For the high-tier premiums in whichever other nation I select - Zulu or Wyvern alone may be enough, especially if taking Salem, where the ship's native camo is necessary to get the best service cost reduction and run economically in a continuous hard grind. I know that doesn't affect the earnings for this mission, but I don't want to bleed credits if I do badly.

 

Reassessment may be necessary after the first night. We will see how things go.

There is a plan already for this directive for those of us who are regulars on Hoperations discord to finish this quickly. Just let me know if you want to know how and whether you want to try joining us for a few games.

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I did some experiments tonight in Neptune and PEF in co-op. With Ocean Soul and Zulu on Neptune, 100,000 gross was easily achievable and I even had a spectacular co-op game of over 200K gross. Together with the cash prizes in the dailies, which count toward ship winnings, I easily broke 1 million credits.

Two games in PEF got me an average of 200k gross each. In co-op. 

At this level of performance, I will manage it easily in PEF and Neptune alone. I have enough cash boosting flags and camo for both.

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9 hours ago, YeOldeTraveller said:

IIRC, that is for XP.  50% for credits.

I will be happy to be wrong.

ETA from the Wiki:

A Warships Premium account applies only to World of Warships. It applies a 65% bonus to ship Experience and a 50% bonus to Credits earned.

That is correct...unfortunately...it should have been the other way around, as I am always short of credits when my XP has unlocked modules or new ships.  Since I also play Tanks, the new WoWS premium time isn't worth it since the credit boost is the same as the standard premium time that works for both games.

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24 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

I did some experiments tonight in Neptune and PEF in co-op. With Ocean Soul and Zulu on Neptune, 100,000 gross was easily achievable and I even had a spectacular co-op game of over 200K gross. Together with the cash prizes in the dailies, which count toward ship winnings, I easily broke 1 million credits.

Two games in PEF got me an average of 200k gross each. In co-op. 

At this level of performance, I will manage it easily in PEF and Neptune alone. I have enough cash boosting flags and camo for both.

I'd be interested to know how you fare when it goes live, as in how many matches it takes so I have a guide for when a future event requires a similar credit grind, since I'm not able to participate in this one myself.

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14 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Duly noted and accepted. 

My research indicates that the best you can do in a single battle is:

Meritorious service camo 50% cash bonus, Wyvern 50%, Basilisk and Leviathan 30 + 20% = another 50%, Zulu 20%, Scylla 25% = 195% of your original cash earnings.

Meritorious service isn't the most common camo, though, but even the more common Hunter (20%), Ocean Soul (20%) and Revolutionary (30%) can produce creditable mega-boosts when stacked with all the flags. 

The question is how long you can keep up the supply of flags and camos for maximum effect.

Good question.  I have quite a backstock of special flags.  I think my lowest count is 45 on one of the economic ones.

Camo will be the issue for the PEF.  Revolutionary is what I am going with on her.  I have 14 of those.  Does Hunter have an econ bonus?

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17 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Task: To complete Directive Four of the "In the Name Of His Highness" campaign and win the ship's gold value.

Tools: PEF herself. A broad selection of tech-tree and premium British and US destroyers, cruisers and battleships from Tiers 5 to 10. Warships premium time. The latter cost me $63 CDN; the doubloon value of the ship is just under $40. In effect I will be making back 6800 of the 12000 doubloons I spent on my discount year of Warships premium.

The Requirement: 4 million in the PEF, standing in for and hopefully reduplicating in parallel the effort across multiple nations. (We are in for disappointment if this turns out not to be the case.) and one other nation.

The Maths:

Taking each of the PEF and "other nation" over a week each, this will be accomplished by:

1) Six random games a night, each yielding 100,000 silver in gross earnings, or equivalent in co-op, for each of seven nights, in PEF. Maximum time required - a little over two hours (6 x 20 minutes, plus a few minutes in between each to get the next battle started.)

2) Six random games a night, conditions as above, in ships of "other nation". 

Total - 84 battles, projected. 

The kicker - do I have enough credit-boosting flags and camo for 84 battles? Do I even need them?

For PEF, the answer is probably yes; at the start, take the best credit-boosting camo and a Zulu flag and see what the results are like. Add a Wyvern if necessary.

For the high-tier premiums in whichever other nation I select - Zulu or Wyvern alone may be enough, especially if taking Salem, where the ship's native camo is necessary to get the best service cost reduction and run economically in a continuous hard grind. I know that doesn't affect the earnings for this mission, but I don't want to bleed credits if I do badly.

 

Reassessment may be necessary after the first night. We will see how things go.

Haven't read the replies (sorry)but I think your estimates are a little low on earnings.

With camos and flags, I am making closer to 200k a battle in co-op  (you have the speed to get the secondaries working in co-op) and between 350 - 400k in Randoms, so I think you can reduce the number of battles needed by a fair amount from PEF.

If you have a Nelson, then that can also do a serious rake on credits and may be worth a look :)

EDIT:-  don't forget you have 2 weeks to accomplish this, not just 1 week :)

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1 hour ago, MaliceA4Thought said:

I think your estimates are a little low on earnings.

The estimates in that post were minimum requirements for doing the task at a slow, measured pace. I bagged over a million in Neptune in co-op last night, so in reality I will almost certainly finish it much sooner than anticipated.

1 hour ago, MaliceA4Thought said:

EDIT:-  don't forget you have 2 weeks to accomplish this, not just 1 week :)

I know, but I was working on one week per ship for each of PEF and whatever nation's vessels I choose to use.

1 hour ago, MaliceA4Thought said:

With camos and flags, I am making closer to 200k a battle in co-op 

This is what I was getting last night when I played around a bit with it. I was pleasantly surprised, and quite frankly at these levels of co-op earning I feel it's much better to stick to co-op. I had a lot of fun indulging in the sort of risk-taking behaviour that would get me blapped quickly in Randoms, particularly in the Neptune; I'm actually having fun in that ship for the first time, so I may as well stick with what worked. Two weeks of this and I'll be in the Minotaur.

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2 hours ago, Captain_Slattery said:

Does Hunter have an econ bonus?

Missed this on first reading. 20%, I think, though the XP bonuses are not as good as for Ocean Soul. Never mind; XP isn't the issue here, except possibly for getting the XP stage of Nerves of Steel finished. I wonder if I won't still be grinding out the cash phase of this when Directive 4 is already done, or whether it will all come together and tie up neatly at the end.

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18 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

What sort of flags and camos have you been using? That could make a difference, and some newer players might not have adequate numbers of these. I'll be counting my pennies and probably expending most of what I've got, but the gains are worth it.

I won't be wasting time with reg co-op. Operations are where you will be making the coin.

Easy to rack up huge damage number = silver, as the spawns are predictable as opposed to co-op and definitely there will be more than 7 reds to gain damage on.

 

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