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IfYouSeeKhaos

Adrenalin Rush For All? Should we balance out the playing field?

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I think Adrenalin Rush should be given to all because when clubbers go clubbing new players should have the same advantage of faster reloads later in the game that the new players probably won't be wasting their 1st few commander points on & the clubbers w/their 19 point commanders (Edit: meant to add, "on premium ships" here) will probably have.

It just seems like a highly OP skill in an already uneven fight.

Plus it will give the devs an extra commander skill slot to work with (w/out having to add any extras) to help balance out the CV rework if needed. (Sorry...shouldn't have thrown that in...don't wanna turn this into a "CV rework" rant thread from the start)

What do you think? Yes/No/Bacon?

 

Edit (This was my original though on the subject when I came up w/the idea a few days before posting it & I just forgot about this thought when I started the thread):

Not only was it my idea to help newer players not get stomped so easily but to have the built in mechanic that if you get caught off guard as you lose life you have a buff to fight back so you don't get taken out so easily...but also the person that started the engagement also gets buffed as you shoot him back so you can't just get jumped & take the "jumper" out easily because your rate of fire increases & his doesn't.

This happens unexpectedly to new players when they are used to fighting people of their own tier that haven't got the points to waste on AR...where everybody is firing at their usual rate...until a mission comes along & all of a sudden this perfectly even fight just turned into a massacre even though the new player had just as much skill & might have even been winning that duel against the veteran & then the veteran is firing a lot more shots & there's nothing they can do...this isn't skill on the part of the veteran...it's an unfair advantage that veterans...that shouldn't need that advantage against new players...get w/the AR skill.

 

 

 

Edited by IfYouSeeKhaos
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Just now, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

I think Adrenalin Rush should be given to all because when clubbers go clubbing new players should have the same advantage of faster reloads later in the game that the new players probably won't be wasting their 1st few commander points on & the clubbers w/their 19 point commanders will probably have.

It just seems like a highly OP skill in an already uneven fight.

Plus it will give the devs an extra commander skill slot to work with (w/out having to add any extras) to help balance out the CV rework if needed.

What do you think? Yes/No/Bacon?

Or you could just take the skill.

It's hardly out of reach at two points.

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CE is also a skill we should give to everyone. Also give SI to everyone. 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, xalmgrey said:

Or you could just take the skill.

It's hardly out of reach at two points.

I've got it on pretty much every commander already myself as I understand how powerful it can be...new players spending their 1st 14-15 points may not realize the value of it though compared to the many other skill choices.

 

4 minutes ago, Anime_Is_Degeneracy said:

You know, DPM isnt the end all be all of gameplay. 

Wasn't suggesting it was...but in an otherwise even knife fight it sure is better to be the 1 w/it as opposed to the 1 w/out it.

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1 minute ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

I've got it on pretty much every commander already myself as I understand how powerful it can be...new players spending their 1st 14-15 points may not realize the value of it though compared to the many other skill choices.

 

Wasn't suggesting it was...but in an otherwise even knife fight it sure is better to be the 1 w/it as opposed to the 1 w/out it.

Positioning trumps AR at any level. Ive never once been in a DD fight where AR would of saved/Gotten me a kill. 

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6 minutes ago, AlcatrazNC said:

CE is also a skill we should give to everyone. Also give SI to everyone. 

 

 

 

Some ships roles are to be detected to draw fire (Khab/French cruisers & others) so CE is situational & SI is dependent on surviving long enough to be able to actually use all of the extra consumables.

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Do the seals even know they're at a disadvantage? 

I don't recall even noticing when I started playing.   It was like "whoo!   sailing a big ship".   "There's a red ship.   FIRE!!!"   "Another ship!   CHARGE!!!!".   "FIRE EVERYTHING".   "awe.... they got me.   THAT WAS FUN!!!"

In regards to some of those ships having 19pt skippers, well, yes they do.   Some of us have enough games in to start building up those lower tiered skippers.    After we've leveled up the skippers on our primary boats, what are we supposed to do?

This is the same type of argument in our society these days.   Someone has it, I don't - therefore, we all should get it free.

May I recommend playing more games, and building those skippers up, like the ones before you have.

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Yes, free skills for everyone

image.gif.7fcef13756c37f8f5eced15263c3a7e8.gif

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It's a tier 2 skill.  Even the seals can get it if they feel so inclined.

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34 minutes ago, Anime_Is_Degeneracy said:

Positioning trumps AR at any level. Ive never once been in a DD fight where AR would of saved/Gotten me a kill. 

Positioning is very important...being in the right position has allowed me to shoot down full life DDs in a DD that started the fight w/only 1 shot needed to kill me...but I guarantee you that extra 20% reload played a part in it.

29 minutes ago, DiddleDum said:

Do the seals even know they're at a disadvantage? 

I don't recall even noticing when I started playing.   It was like "whoo!   sailing a big ship".   "There's a red ship.   FIRE!!!"   "Another ship!   CHARGE!!!!".   "FIRE EVERYTHING".   "awe.... they got me.   THAT WAS FUN!!!"

In regards to some of those ships having 19pt skippers, well, yes they do.   Some of us have enough games in to start building up those lower tiered skippers.    After we've leveled up the skippers on our primary boats, what are we supposed to do?

This is the same type of argument in our society these days.   Someone has it, I don't - therefore, we all should get it free.

May I recommend playing more games, and building those skippers up, like the ones before you have.

Sorry...I need to change the OP...I was referring to stompers in premium ships w/19 point commanders...although I'm sure a few have extra 19 pointers to throw on lower tier ships too.

But dude...after 18k battles I don't think you can classify me in that category...I have it...in spades. I have enough extra elite commander XP to build a few extra commanders from 0-19 points...but I don't need them because I have more 19 point commanders than I can use in a day.

Not every thread is a selfish thread...I have mine...seems fair to give the new players a chance to run their T5 ships when there is a T5 & above mission available w/out being stomped because people w/a dozen T10s to run for the mission feel the need to run their T5 premiums w/19 point commanders to complete the missions.

19 minutes ago, yashma said:

It's a tier 2 skill.  Even the seals can get it if they feel so inclined.

Yes...but did you take it as one of the 1st skills when you were building up new commanders? Every type of ship has more important (almost mandatory) skills needed before AR is even considered...only when you've already got 15 or 16 points on a ship do most even consider it but just about everybody w/a 19 point commander has it I'm guessing.

It's just a major advantage against ships that need their basics at lower tiers & can't afford to spend the points on it.

(btw Yashma...is the correct designation for a battleship a CS?)

Edited by IfYouSeeKhaos

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Just give all new captains 10 points. 

 

Lolz

 

:cap_popcorn:

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If you're going to give all captains a skill, you might as well just get rid of that skill. 

And the last thing this game needs is more spamming gunfire... freaking Minotaur or Wooooooster with free AR...

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58 minutes ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

I think Adrenalin Rush should be given to all because when clubbers go clubbing new players should have the same advantage of faster reloads later in the game that the new players probably won't be wasting their 1st few commander points on & the clubbers w/their 19 point commanders (Edit: meant to add, "on premium ships" here) will probably have.

It just seems like a highly OP skill in an already uneven fight.

Plus it will give the devs an extra commander skill slot to work with (w/out having to add any extras) to help balance out the CV rework if needed. (Sorry...shouldn't have thrown that in...don't wanna turn this into a "CV rework" rant thread from the start)

What do you think? Yes/No/Bacon?

 

I’m just curious why you care, being a PVE type? It’s not like you’re facing players who have skill points at all in the first place.

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AR is a minor buff that players receive for investing 2 points and taking damage, two points they could have invested elsewhere for a different buff. Giving it to everyone is stupid, might as well just remove it altogether. 

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1 hour ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

I think Adrenalin Rush should be given to all because when clubbers go clubbing new players should have the same advantage of faster reloads later in the game that the new players probably won't be wasting their 1st few commander points on & the clubbers w/their 19 point commanders (Edit: meant to add, "on premium ships" here) will probably have.

It just seems like a highly OP skill in an already uneven fight.

Plus it will give the devs an extra commander skill slot to work with (w/out having to add any extras) to help balance out the CV rework if needed. (Sorry...shouldn't have thrown that in...don't wanna turn this into a "CV rework" rant thread from the start)

What do you think? Yes/No/Bacon?

if theyre clubbers and not taking damage, then AR wont work...

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Honestly, the same can be said of Concealment Expert, EM, BFT, AFT, and Priority Target, and then just replace those skills with ones that vary up the playstyle even more.

For example:

A new T3 skill that decreases the time needed to shift AA sectors, replacing BFT.

A T4 skill that strictly increases secondary ranges further but at a slight expense to accuracy by tier (so one could now gain 16km+ secondaries, but at the cost of accuracy). Replaces AFT; taking it to a more extreme level given built-in AFT. This is assuming that WG did bake in a general secondary range buff as part of their planned changes to make secondaries in general more viable.

A T4 skill that increases guaranteed detection of torpedoes, aircraft, and ships by an additional 2km, replacing CE and allowing partial stacking with Vigilance, Hydro, and the TAM module (like how Vigilance stacks with TAM and Hydro, but Hydro and TAM do not affect each other). In this case, ship, torpedo, and aircraft detection stacks with TAM and Vigilance, but not Hydro (or Radar for that matter). So an anti-CE skill of sorts, but situational in some respects. Especially useful for scouting DDs and some CLs, assuming scouting in general is rewarded a bit more.

A T2 skill that increases secondary armament armoring at the slight expense of traverse and RoF and replaces EM. Hardens secondaries further via considerably increased HP, but secondary RoF and traverse speeds suffer some. This also affects DP secondaries' AA effectiveness some as well (long-range AA take an RoF hit, and a slight penalty to AA sector shifting).

A T1 skill that notifies the player when a CV has got them in their sights for a bombing run, and replaces PT. For those that may want to balance between either showing that broadside to avoid planes or suffering a bombing run or two to tank incomings shots before taking evasive maneuvers against follow-up bombing runs.

A T2 skill that reduces Fire/Flooding chances as damage increases, but at the expense of faster-firing armaments as health decreases. A reverse anti-Adrenaline Rush skill of sorts, that shifts personnel from offensive capability duties to defensive capability. It only reduces the rate of being set on fire or flooded the deeper into the red one goes, but doesn't stop the damage from coming from direct hits. Also doesn't prevent module/turret damage.

 

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3 hours ago, LT_Rusty_SWO said:

 

I’m just curious why you care, being a PVE type? It’s not like you’re facing players who have skill points at all in the first place.

Not actually a PVE type...(disclaimer: wanted to join "A" clan anyway for building buffs for snowflakes) I just joined their clan to help them out w/oil because not only their clan leader but a bunch of other members are not only active forumites but do a lot to help the community.

2 hours ago, Kapitan_Wuff said:

AR is a minor buff that players receive for investing 2 points and taking damage, two points they could have invested elsewhere for a different buff. Giving it to everyone is stupid, might as well just remove it altogether. 

(Need to add this in OP as it was my actual thought process on it when I 1st came up w/the idea a few days ago):

Not only was it my idea to help newer players not get stomped so easily but to have the built in mechanic that if you get caught off guard as you lose life you have a buff to fight back so you don't get taken out so easily...but also the person that started the engagement also gets buffed as you shoot him back so you can't just get jumped & take the "jumper" out easily because your rate of fire increases & his doesn't.

This happens unexpectedly to new players when they are used to fighting people of their own tier that haven't got the points to waste on AR...where everybody is firing at their usual rate...until a mission comes along all of a sudden this perfectly even fight just turned into a massacre even though the new player had just as much skill & might have even been winning that duel against a veteran & then the veteran is firing a lot more shots & there's nothing they can do...this isn't skill on the part of the veteran...it's an unfair advantage that veterans...that shouldn't need that advantage against new players...get w/the AR skill).

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3 hours ago, Hanger_18 said:

if theyre clubbers and not taking damage, then AR wont work...

The idea is for the clubbed...as they are taking damage they will get an AR boost to their ROF to give them a chance to do damage to the clubbers instead of just being quickly annihilated w/out getting a chance to do any damage.

As it is when the clubbed do get a chance to do damage it just increases the clubbers (that has AR) ROF w/out the clubbed having a ROF increase to defend himself.

Edited by IfYouSeeKhaos

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2 minutes ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

Not actually a PVE type...(disclaimer: wanted to join "A" clan anyway for building buffs for snowflakes) I just joined their clan to help them out w/oil because not only their clan leader but a bunch of other members are not only active forumites but do a lot to help the community.

(Need to add this in OP as it was my actual thought process on it when I 1st came up w/the idea a few days ago):

Not only was it my idea to help newer players not get stomped so easily but to have the built in mechanic that if you get caught off guard as you lose life you have a buff to fight back so you don't get taken out so easily...but also the person that started the engagement also gets buffed as you shoot him back so you can't just get jumped & take the "jumper" out easily because your rate of fire increases & his doesn't.

This happens unexpectedly to new players when they are used to fighting people of their own tier that haven't got the points to waste on AR...where everybody is firing at their usual rate...until a mission comes along all of a sudden this perfectly even fight just turned into a massacre even though the new player had just as much skill & might have even been winning that duel against a veteran & then the veteran is firing a lot more shots & there's nothing they can do...this isn't skill on the part of the veteran...it's an unfair advantage that veterans...that shouldn't need that advantage against new players...get w/the AR skill).

Whilst I admire your attempt at reasoning this out, I believe it's the start of a rocky road towards participation trophies..  you see theres so much that an experienced player can do in all aspects of the game, not just Adrenaline Rush.  If you start giving away skills, then why not all of them.. BFT/AFT all of them.   AR is almost a throw away, certainly it's one of the potentially weaker ones, but an experienced player with a 19 pt captain is probably not even going to be using AR as there is no need.  If I put a 19pt captain in a Bogatyr I can pretty much outshoot and outrange every cruiser i am going to see at t3 and even some BB's.  Is that an automatic game winner.. nope, but it's certainly a stacked deck.

In the grand scheme of things, however, there is NO captain skill that can balance for the actual skill of the player, and by defenition, a player who has more hours in this game should (and I will keep with should) be able to defeat a player with less hours in a similar ship just by having the game knowledge.

I think you have to accept that there will always, in games of this type, be those who with lots of experience drop down to lower levels.. and theres many reasons for that... 

1)  They still have ships of that tier that they enjoy playing

2)  For them, it's a quick relaxing break from something more strenuous

3)  It's fun

4)  It's relearning some skills or reminding themselves of something

5)  Training a new captain

6)  Building a new line.

When I was a new captain, there were people in the same game as me who had played way more, and because there were so few people, it was possible to be sailing a St Louis (the t3 one) and see a yamato on the other team.  I don't think you can get more unbalanced than that, however, when I was learning I was quick to spot the good players and when i died, I was always jumping to watch them play their ship and learn rather than dashing back to port and that speeded up my gameplay and fun immensely, so there can be benefits to having great players in a low tier match if you take them.

Quite frankly, lower tiers are so protected now with MM and playing only in a special pool till a certain number of matches that finding a high experience player in a low tier match is about the only chance they will have of understanding that as they progress it is not going to be all wine and roses, and that theres more to the game than just logging on and pressing Battle.

Finally, a lot of low tier players will not even have unlocked the ability to use captain skills, so giving them AR would mean nothing anyway.

In this type of game, you have to accept that sometimes you are the bug and sometimes the windshield and that applies from day 1 to your 100,000th battle at any tier.

 

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Ironically it's at low tiers where AR is the least useful, given how fast firing Cruiser and Destroyer guns are at those tiers. Only BB's sorta bennifit from it and even then, it's not as worthwhile. if there's any skill at low tier that's straight OP it's Last Stand (it's OP in general) as at those tiers engines/rudders DO get knocked out regularly and LS more or less totally negates such mechanic.

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19 minutes ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

The idea is for the clubbed...as they are taking damage they will get an AR boost to their ROF to give them a chance to do damage to the clubbers instead of just being quickly annihilated w/out getting a chance to do any damage.

As it is when the clubbed do get a chance to do damage it just increases the clubbers (that has AR) ROF w/out the clubbed having a ROF increase to defend himself.

its 2 points, hardly inaccessible 

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29 minutes ago, MaliceA4Thought said:

Whilst I admire your attempt at reasoning this out, I believe it's the start of a rocky road towards participation trophies..  you see theres so much that an experienced player can do in all aspects of the game, not just Adrenaline Rush.  If you start giving away skills, then why not all of them.. BFT/AFT all of them.   AR is almost a throw away, certainly it's one of the potentially weaker ones, but an experienced player with a 19 pt captain is probably not even going to be using AR as there is no need.  If I put a 19pt captain in a Bogatyr I can pretty much outshoot and outrange every cruiser i am going to see at t3 and even some BB's.  Is that an automatic game winner.. nope, but it's certainly a stacked deck.

In the grand scheme of things, however, there is NO captain skill that can balance for the actual skill of the player, and by defenition, a player who has more hours in this game should (and I will keep with should) be able to defeat a player with less hours in a similar ship just by having the game knowledge.

I think you have to accept that there will always, in games of this type, be those who with lots of experience drop down to lower levels.. and theres many reasons for that... 

1)  They still have ships of that tier that they enjoy playing

2)  For them, it's a quick relaxing break from something more strenuous

3)  It's fun

4)  It's relearning some skills or reminding themselves of something

5)  Training a new captain

6)  Building a new line.

When I was a new captain, there were people in the same game as me who had played way more, and because there were so few people, it was possible to be sailing a St Louis (the t3 one) and see a yamato on the other team.  I don't think you can get more unbalanced than that, however, when I was learning I was quick to spot the good players and when i died, I was always jumping to watch them play their ship and learn rather than dashing back to port and that speeded up my gameplay and fun immensely, so there can be benefits to having great players in a low tier match if you take them.

Quite frankly, lower tiers are so protected now with MM and playing only in a special pool till a certain number of matches that finding a high experience player in a low tier match is about the only chance they will have of understanding that as they progress it is not going to be all wine and roses, and that theres more to the game than just logging on and pressing Battle.

Finally, a lot of low tier players will not even have unlocked the ability to use captain skills, so giving them AR would mean nothing anyway.

In this type of game, you have to accept that sometimes you are the bug and sometimes the windshield and that applies from day 1 to your 100,000th battle at any tier.

 

I was referring to new T5 players...where the missions begin...not T1-4 where there's no reason to actually go clubbing & those T4 & lower clubbers are probably a 1 game event & then you never see them again.

I was thinking along the lines of making it a built in mechanic of the game (maybe even giving it to the co-op & scenario bots to balance it out also as w/everybody having it the bots are gonna need a little love too).

BTW...I was around too when a T1 in a T10 match was the original definition of "div fail".

 

28 minutes ago, _RC1138 said:

Ironically it's at low tiers where AR is the least useful, given how fast firing Cruiser and Destroyer guns are at those tiers. Only BB's sorta bennifit from it and even then, it's not as worthwhile. if there's any skill at low tier that's straight OP it's Last Stand (it's OP in general) as at those tiers engines/rudders DO get knocked out regularly and LS more or less totally negates such mechanic. 

No it doesn't...it only allows you to move/turn at 1/4 speed until the engine/rudder is repaired...it's just when you are already moving at full speed  when it happens your forward momentum continues while you're slowing down to that 1/4 speed...if you're mostly stopped when you get hit it only allows you to move very slow & makes you a fairly easy target...less easy than if you are completely stopped of course but not in a very good situation if DC is on cool down.

Edited by IfYouSeeKhaos

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21 minutes ago, Hanger_18 said:

its 2 points, hardly inaccessible 

Hardly inaccessible for veterans that have all the "mandatory" basic skills already...for a T5 (where the majority of clubbing really begins due to it being the lowest tier that missions begin) it's not something a new players is going to take as a needed skill w/the limited points they have to spend but all the people w/a dozen T10 ships to run in those T5 & above missions that drop down to T5 to get them done "easier" are all gonna have it in their ships.

Edited by IfYouSeeKhaos

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