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Sensai_Lawrence

secondaries need major buffage

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destroyer shouldn't be able to sail parallel to my hood at 6km with maxed out secondaries and flags and not even get scratched.  by the time my mains turn around I'm dead.  the lengths WG goes to protect cancerbotes is ridiculous.  

secondaries need accuracy buff in a big way.  

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Bismark, G. Kurfurst, Mass all disagree.

You were outplayed by someone in a ship type that is supposed to counter yours.  Try getting better before you cry for buffs. 

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15 minutes ago, CaptainKaitoGhost said:

Bismark, G. Kurfurst, Mass all disagree.

You were outplayed by someone in a ship type that is supposed to counter yours.  Try getting better before you cry for buffs. 

Oh wow, you're one of those...haha, okay.

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16 minutes ago, CaptainKaitoGhost said:

Bismark, G. Kurfurst, Mass all disagree.

You were outplayed by someone in a ship type that is supposed to counter yours.  Try getting better before you cry for buffs. 

Even Hood disagrees.

Hood’s secondaries are focused to the rear, though not as much as some of the French BBs and Nelson. In most cases she is better off running away from a destroyer.

In any case; NEVER sail parallel to a destroyer secondary-close anyway. Doing so is begging to be torped, unless you are a higher tier German bullibote or something whose nickname is ‘Mammie’ with long range secondaries, and even then it’s not generally a good idea.

 

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28 minutes ago, Sensai_Lawrence said:

destroyer shouldn't be able to sail parallel to my hood at 6km....

Not for very long anyway. You should be maneuvering to rectify that situation posthaste.....

Heck, I wouldn't be waiting for my mains to come around if I was driving a CL, let alone a BB.

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21 minutes ago, TornadoADV said:

Oh wow, you're one of those...haha, okay.

One of what?  People who think BBs shouldn't be able to sail in straight lines with impunity?  Yes, I am one of those.

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While I don't think every battleship should enjoy the secondaries that are found in German BB line or on the Massachusetts. 
I do think every Battleship should have secondaries that make brawling fun and will make Destroyers think twice about rushing them. 
So at least 7.5Km with minor upgrades, a decent reload and reliable accuracy. 

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Royal Navy and USN battleships tend to have the worst secondaries in the game, outside of Massachusetts. WG saw fit to artificially nerf the latter, while overbuffing everyone else.

If you want secondaries to actively harass and kill DD's, play Germans, French, Japanese, basically anyone but USN and RN.

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9 minutes ago, Big_Spud said:

Royal Navy and USN battleships tend to have the worst secondaries in the game, outside of Massachusetts. WG saw fit to artificially nerf the latter, while overbuffing everyone else.

If you want secondaries to actively harass and kill DD's, play Germans, French, Japanese, basically anyone but USN and RN.

I wonder how Russian secondaries will figure into things.

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8 minutes ago, RedSeaBear said:

While I don't think every battleship should enjoy the secondaries that are found in German BB line or on the Massachusetts. 
I do think every Battleship should have secondaries that make brawling fun and will make Destroyers think twice about rushing them. 
So at least 7.5Km with minor upgrades, a decent reload and reliable accuracy. 

Agreed.  While I don't want to see all ships with 10 or 11km+ secondary range, I would like to see most reach into the 7s with minor upgrades but not a full secondary build.  I do think, as it is now, secondaries are quite useless outside of the specialized secondary ships - German BBs, Massachusetts, and select others.  With how inaccurate secondaries are without manual targeting, it generally isn't much of a problem for DDs anyways.

Oh....and my favorite class is DD before anyone calls me a BBaby.

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7 minutes ago, JediMasterDraco said:

I wonder how Russian secondaries will figure into things.

Tier 4 will have 10 km range.  Tier 10 will have 20 km range autoloading secondaries.  All will fire HE with built in IFHE.  Because balans, comrade.

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21 minutes ago, Big_Spud said:

 

If you want secondaries to actively harass and kill DD's, play Germans, French, Japanese, basically anyone but USN and RN.

Yeah, since the switch to all-HE secondaries, playing my Amagi with the secondary upgrade only, has got me thinking I might swap something out for MFCS.

AFAIC, the difference is night and day when DDs come calling....

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32 minutes ago, CaptainKaitoGhost said:

One of what?  People who think BBs shouldn't be able to sail in straight lines with impunity?  Yes, I am one of those.

Captain Ghost sorry to get off topic but could you post a few picks of that awesome Miami Dolphins Plymouth Cuda you have .

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have you tried adding Manual 2nds in capt skills?  

have it on me Germans BBs....massively effective...lots of 2nd kills...

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1 hour ago, Sensai_Lawrence said:

destroyer shouldn't be able to sail parallel to my hood at 6km with maxed out secondaries and flags and not even get scratched.  by the time my mains turn around I'm dead.  the lengths WG goes to protect cancerbotes is ridiculous.  

secondaries need accuracy buff in a big way.  

I got an idea. Let's just make this game World of Battleships.  No other classes. Crank up the realism to where you  are dead in the water after one salvo from another BB. Then crying can stop finally. Oh, wait it won't. Then you will ask for it to dialed backed.

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2 thoughts:

1. Secondaries are more than fine. You have next to no input, they shouldn't be soloing ships for you.

2. A DD that sails within it's concealment range of a BB shouldn't get full penetration protection.

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34 minutes ago, clammboy said:

Captain Ghost sorry to get off topic but could you post a few picks of that awesome Miami Dolphins Plymouth Cuda you have .

It's just a Forza 6 car.  Sadly, I don't own this in real life.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Lampshade_M1A2 said:

Secondaries could do with a universal buff at this point. It would make the game a lot more fun.

As somebody that loves Secondary brawling I always have to agree with Secondary gun buffs... :Smile_trollface:

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Have Bis with maxed out secondaries. Where it falls down is AA and main gun dispersion. I have been singled out by high tier carriers early in game many times for a quick 69K damage.

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18 minutes ago, Madwolf05 said:

2 thoughts:

1. Secondaries are more than fine. You have next to no input, they shouldn't be soloing ships for you.

2. A DD that sails within it's concealment range of a BB shouldn't get full penetration protection.

I disagree. Battleship HE from main guns should do more damage to Destroyers. The AP damage is fine but the HE damage is way too low.

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2 minutes ago, CaptainTeddybear said:

I disagree. Battleship HE from main guns should do more damage to Destroyers. The AP damage is fine but the HE damage is way too low.

This is a discussion worth having, sadly we never make it to this part before the battle lines are drawn and heads buried in the sand,

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Secondary batteries generally make most destroyers think twice. Accurate or not, getting repeatedly shot at in a boat with next to no hit points and tinplate for armor makes one nervous about getting shot at by anything. while particular threats like High Tier KM BBs, Massachusetts, and the French BBs, can get a lot of mileage out of their secondary batteries, even unaided, they do have to make a choice of how to spec their captain and upgrades to get the best use out of the ship. If you main concern is a DD rushing in close, and you do not feel your main guns are up to the task, some upgrades to your secondaries may be in order. Look at you options. Weigh them. Consider them, then make the choice of how you want your ship to play.

Now, onto your specific example. Hood vs destroyer. Since we don't know what specific destroyer you were faced against, I'm going to pick the most played Tier 7 DD on NA, which is Mahan.

We'll take Hood's main guns out of the equation for now, seeing as this thread is concerned with secondary gun performance. Hood is a battlecruiser, a ship that sacrifices armor for more speed. These ships were built to be able to outfight anything that could outrun them and outrun anything that could outfight them. Part of the sacrifice is in secondary guns. Hood has 7 dual mount 102mm secondary guns. These guns shoot HE exclusively and do a maximum damage of 1500. They have a base range of 5.3 kilometers and fire once every three seconds. There are three mounts starboard, three port, and one aft, superfiring over the main guns. This gives a maximum secondary broadside of 8 guns, meaning Hood's secondaries can put out 160 rounds per minute to a target on the broadside. this gives a potential DPM of 240,000

Now lets look at Mahan's main guns, leaving the torpedoes out for the moment. Mahan has 5 single mount 127mm guns mounted along the centerline. all 5 may fire on either broadside. with a HE max damage of 1,800. They have a maximum range of 11.7 km and fire every 4 seconds. Mahan can fire 75 rounds per minute to a target on the broadside, giving an HE DPM of 135,000.

That's right, Hood, with a relatively weak secondary armament, is easily capable of out damaging a same tier gunboat DD were it to be a straight slugging match. Additionally, it has a 32 knot top speed, 33.6 knots, giving Mahan just a 1.4 knot advantage with its base speed. if sailing parallel at 6km, this small speed difference means Hood could close relatively quickly with a Mahan who was more focused on trying to drop his torps than with exactly what that Hood was trying to do.

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I'm down for buffing secondaries on certain secondary focused ships. I can't remember the source now, but I do remember overhearing that the devs were possibly thinking of make secondary specs viable again in the future!

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