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Neighbor_Kid

Fed up with the pens for nothing

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Anyone else loosing their marbles when you get pens for no damage.. it seems to be getting worse every patch. Even when you're not destroying modules you still get pens for no damage.  I broadsided a republic at 4 KM with a yammy.. 7 pens for no damage I about lost my mind. It's also hurting the competitive side a bit. Not only do we already deal with RNG for dispersion, but actual contact with the ship for nothing over and over? This needs to be resolved soon. 

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31 minutes ago, Neighbor_Kid said:

Anyone else loosing their marbles when you get pens for no damage.. it seems to be getting worse every patch. Even when you're not destroying modules you still get pens for no damage.  I broadsided a republic at 4 KM with a yammy.. 7 pens for no damage I about lost my mind. It's also hurting the competitive side a bit. Not only do we already deal with RNG for dispersion, but actual contact with the ship for nothing over and over? This needs to be resolved soon. 

You also don't get any damage when you pen a torpedo bulge or similar spaced armor, and then bounce off the belt armor behind it. It shows up as a penetration, even though it's really a shatter or ricochet.

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1 minute ago, Sensai_Lawrence said:

agreed.  overpens need to go.  shells damage things.  quit protecting cancerbotes, WG!

Play them if they're so strong.

 

Akatsuki should be deep enough in the tree for you to get some much-needed perspective.

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Wasn’t a “remedy” attempted on PTS, and pretty much every BB melted insanely fast, so fast the fix was kiboshed rather quickly?  Be careful what you wish for gents.

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1 hour ago, Neighbor_Kid said:

Anyone else loosing their marbles when you get pens for no damage.. it seems to be getting worse every patch. Even when you're not destroying modules you still get pens for no damage.  I broadsided a republic at 4 KM with a yammy.. 7 pens for no damage I about lost my mind. It's also hurting the competitive side a bit. Not only do we already deal with RNG for dispersion, but actual contact with the ship for nothing over and over? This needs to be resolved soon. 

That is why I liked Jacuzzi mode, a hit was a hit for the same points every time. No saturated areas, no overpens, no algorithms. Clan battles would be fun in the Jacuzzi. All ships would be equal and the strategy would just be in picking the consumables that the team wants to deploy. It would be fun to have it as an all time mode (I mean WG did the work, lets use it) . Then OP, random battles can remain the same and you can go play there. I would play it.

 

Edited by Sovereigndawg

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25 minutes ago, KiyoSenkan said:

Play them if they're so strong.

 

Akatsuki should be deep enough in the tree for you to get some much-needed perspective.

I only have 5 games in mine so far, plus about 50 games in other new (to me) T7 DDs, but it seems from my limited perspective in comparing them, that the worst thing about Akatsuki is the slow torps. 

It's fun to play though, and once I get done knocking off snowflakes and buying Independence ahead of the rework, I'll be focussing on it.

I've been warned not to, but I'm considering TA skill for it. 8km seems to work ok for torps when I play Maass, and it would help my torp speed issues.

Edited by Skpstr

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29 minutes ago, SgtBeltfed said:

You also don't get any damage when you pen a torpedo bulge or similar spaced armor, and then bounce off the belt armor behind it. It shows up as a penetration, even though it's really a shatter or ricochet.

That's fine, then they should figure a way to show it as that - 5 salvo's, 15 hits, a total of 14 pens, and 1 overpen, in my Musashi AGAINST A DESTROYER, is insane. 6 salvos, 30 penetrating hits, from a Salem on a BB - 5k total damage. Just a feed back thing that gets frustrating, if I'm not getting a pen in reality, don't show me getting one. It's been a thing since Alpha and yeah, seems like it's getting worse.

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12 minutes ago, FrodoFraggin said:

Wasn’t a “remedy” attempted on PTS, and pretty much every BB melted insanely fast, so fast the fix was kiboshed rather quickly?  Be careful what you wish for gents.

Exactly. When they first tested the pen rework, they actually awarded the 1/3 pen damage when you hit any of the torpedo bulges, guns or space armor regardless of whether or not it actually got into the hit box of the ship. That effectively made it so that anything that didn't hit a gun barbette became a 1/3 damage pen unless you bounced it. That means ANY gun above 180mm could get pen damage on the majority of a broadside of the ship instead of having to aim for the upperbelt, superstructure or bow/stern. 

If you're getting 0 damage pens, then what you would have seen before would have 0 damage shatters/bounces. WG changed the mechanic for reporting pens because a very vocal minority complained that they were shattering or bouncing shells when they saw the shell go into the hull on replay. 

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1 hour ago, Neighbor_Kid said:

Anyone else loosing their marbles when you get pens for no damage.. it seems to be getting worse every patch. Even when you're not destroying modules you still get pens for no damage.  I broadsided a republic at 4 KM with a yammy.. 7 pens for no damage I about lost my mind. It's also hurting the competitive side a bit. Not only do we already deal with RNG for dispersion, but actual contact with the ship for nothing over and over? This needs to be resolved soon. 

No. Please seek treatment for your OCD. 

This has happened since we got the pen ribbons. The cause is known. You are penning torpedo bulges and shattering against the armor belt.

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43 minutes ago, KiyoSenkan said:

Play them if they're so strong.

 

Akatsuki should be deep enough in the tree for you to get some much-needed perspective.

You love using the Akatsuki as this beginning of the end, if you play this you'll see how poor poor IJN DD's are, well, if you are going to use that as a shibboleth:

6XUcaSl.jpg

And let's be clear, I have Shima and other high tier IJN DD's but since you use Akatsuki as some breaking point let me speak as someone who HAS played it a decent amount, without qualification: IJN DD's are *FINE* and if anything need a few nerfs given the sheer gravy train of straight buffs (especially to guns) they've had over the last year. The overpens are WAY outa control recently and my perspective on that is based on being the target: I haven't gotten a Dreadnought on my Mino in weeks because damn near every shell that hits me overpens. The only ships that seem exempt from this are USN BB's who still have their shells come in steep enough to not overpen, but IJN, German, RN, Roma's neigh unplayable I assume, all are overpenning to a degree that is STAGGERING even against cruisers, and DD's are straight overpowered now.

Edited by _RC1138

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4 minutes ago, WanderingGhost said:

That's fine, then they should figure a way to show it as that - 5 salvo's, 15 hits, a total of 14 pens, and 1 overpen, in my Musashi AGAINST A DESTROYER, is insane. 6 salvos, 30 penetrating hits, from a Salem on a BB - 5k total damage. Just a feed back thing that gets frustrating, if I'm not getting a pen in reality, don't show me getting one. It's been a thing since Alpha and yeah, seems like it's getting worse.

Lol that's why I just look at the damage numbers rising off the target, and ignore the pen/shatter ribbons. Does wonders for my blood pressure! :Smile_veryhappy:

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1 minute ago, Skpstr said:

Lol that's why I just look at the damage numbers rising off the target, and ignore the pen/shatter ribbons. Does wonders for my blood pressure! :Smile_veryhappy:

Unfortunately that doesn't help when I physically see rounds hit the ship, and the number is still zero, because then if I don't see the richochet I have to know what the hell just happened. 

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I saw a posting that showed a blackhole in the side armor of the republic where all the shells that hit showed as pens but did no damage, starting behind the bow section to the stern. A glitch that needs to be fixed.

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Anyone else have Dire Straits stuck in their heads now? Pens for nothin’ and my cits for free...

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1 hour ago, Neighbor_Kid said:

I broadsided a republic at 4 KM with a yammy.. 7 pens for no damage I about lost my mind. It's also hurting the competitive side a bit. Not only do we already deal with RNG for dispersion, but actual contact with the ship for nothing over and over? This needs to be resolved soon. 

C'mon mate.  There is no issue here, I bet you $5 you shot the torp bulge but did not penetrate the belt for whatever reason.  If it worries you so very much just ignore the penetration ribbon, everything else is working correctly.

I just don't understand why so many people seem to think that a penetration must always equal damage, please learn the game design mechanics before crying about a non-issue that must be resolved soon. 

Jesus.

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44 minutes ago, WanderingGhost said:

That's fine, then they should figure a way to show it as that - 5 salvo's, 15 hits, a total of 14 pens, and 1 overpen, in my Musashi AGAINST A DESTROYER, is insane. 6 salvos, 30 penetrating hits, from a Salem on a BB - 5k total damage. Just a feed back thing that gets frustrating, if I'm not getting a pen in reality, don't show me getting one. It's been a thing since Alpha and yeah, seems like it's getting worse.

True, they need a "non-damaging hit" ribbon or some similar indicator with a tool tip to explain what's happening when it shows up for those that are interested. Simple, doesn't change any mechanics, an elegant solution.

I'll gladly live with the poor excuse for communicating to me what my shells are doing to a target if I don't have to deal with what WG's knee-jerk reaction of a fix was. 

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I'm starting to think the people that have an issue with this non-pen "problem" are players from FPS or recent general gaming that are conditioned to expect "kills" when you shoot and hit something.  Unfortunately this game has never communicated the game mechanics well and elements such as complex armour interactions, richochets and the like tend to be grouped under this nebulous non-pen ribbon. 

Ultimately though I am not sure you can really please these people.  WG tried and look what we almost ended up with, dodged a bullet there.

Edited by Snarky_Wombat

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1 hour ago, HazardDrake said:

No. Please seek treatment for your OCD. 

This has happened since we got the pen ribbons. The cause is known. You are penning torpedo bulges and shattering against the armor belt.

Thats not true.  I have had many upon many other games where shells hit super structures, and various other parts of the ships for pens and no damage.  

another game i had with the I think was the yammy too, had a charging richy on my rear and fire and threw 3 shells into his turret 1 barb.. no damage.  It no OCD, or other [edited] it's never been so bad, and its only getting worse. 

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1 hour ago, Skpstr said:

I only have 5 games in mine so far, plus about 50 games in other new (to me) T7 DDs, but it seems from my limited perspective in comparing them, that the worst thing about Akatsuki is the slow torps. 

It's fun to play though, and once I get done knocking off snowflakes and buying Independence ahead of the rework, I'll be focussing on it.

I've been warned not to, but I'm considering TA skill for it. 8km seems to work ok for torps when I play Maass, and it would help my torp speed issues.

I wouldn't recommend it. The 8km range is rotten when you get matched with radar.

But after going through Mutsuki and Fubuki, do you think destroyers are cancerous, unstoppable, overpowered monstrosities that exist only to ruin the game for innocent, god-fearing battleships?

The whole point of the statement is to urge the person quoted into developing some perspective and unraveling some of the million layers of personal bias armor they've adorned themselves with.

7 minutes ago, Neighbor_Kid said:

Thats not true.  I have had many upon many other games where shells hit super structures, and various other parts of the ships for pens and no damage.  

another game i had with the I think was the yammy too, had a charging richy on my rear and fire and threw 3 shells into his turret 1 barb.. no damage.  It no OCD, or other [edited] it's never been so bad, and its only getting worse. 

Stop hitting secondaries and AA emplacements then. These also cause this behavior. It's an artifact of a badly coded damage model, not WG's secret conspiracy against you specifically.

Edited by KiyoSenkan

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1 minute ago, Neighbor_Kid said:

Thats not true.  I have had many upon many other games where shells hit super structures, and various other parts of the ships for pens and no damage.  

another game i had with the I think was the yammy too, had a charging richy on my rear and fire and threw 3 shells into his turret 1 barb.. no damage.  It no OCD, or other [edited] it's never been so bad, and its only getting worse. 

There's a lot more reasons than torpedo bulges giving "false penetration" indications.

You pen the deck in front of the barbette, then shatter on the barbette behind it.

Pen an area that's damage saturated.

Thanks to latency between your computer and the server, exactly where you see your shells hitting and where the server knows they hit might be somewhat different.

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4 minutes ago, SgtBeltfed said:

There's a lot more reasons than torpedo bulges giving "false penetration" indications.

True, it shouldn't need to be pointed out that this is just one example but there you go.

5 minutes ago, SgtBeltfed said:

Thanks to latency between your computer and the server, exactly where you see your shells hitting and where the server knows they hit might be somewhat different.

This is a good point actually, especially for those of us not graced with 30ms game connections. 

 

19 minutes ago, Neighbor_Kid said:

had a charging richy on my rear and fire and threw 3 shells into his turret 1 barb.. no damage.

Because.....  Angle of impact, armour interaction etc.  This is the point you are not getting, just because you "hit" doesn't automatically mean damage. 

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7 minutes ago, SgtBeltfed said:

There's a lot more reasons than torpedo bulges giving "false penetration" indications.

You pen the deck in front of the barbette, then shatter on the barbette behind it.

Pen an area that's damage saturated.

 

13 minutes ago, KiyoSenkan said:

Stop hitting secondaries and AA emplacements then. These also cause this behavior. It's an artifact of a badly coded damage model, not WG's secret conspiracy against you specifically.

1 hour ago, HazardDrake said:

 

This has happened since we got the pen ribbons. The cause is known. You are penning torpedo bulges and shattering against the armor belt.

 

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53 minutes ago, KiyoSenkan said:

But after going through Mutsuki and Fubuki, do you think destroyers are cancerous, unstoppable, overpowered monstrosities that exist only to ruin the game for innocent, god-fearing battleships?

No, but then I never really did. What I am finding is that they are pretty darn fun, and easier and harder than I imagined in some ways.

I've always thought that people who think a ship type cancerous were simply remembering relatively isolated incidents and projecting them as the norm.

I've definitely had some games that these people could have used as evidence to support their position, where everything just fell into place, but I certainly can't make them happen consistently lol.

I'm definitely glad I made the effort to bite the bullet and grind some DDs, it's opened up fresh new gameplay.

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