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S16_Hunter

Ramming Mechanics

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Maybe I just don't understand something about how "Ramming" actually works in game and maybe more enlightened players can share their knowledge on the specifics. Having said that I just don't get it.  How can a almost no HP left ship destroy a almost full Health Ship?  There is a flag for Ramming; does it make a difference? I used to see some ships survive ramming but not anymore.  Actually I think I saw 1 recently and was shocked it survived.

I would think that ramming would cause massive damage, ok I'm good with that, but it should not be an automatic "your dead".   And I think class to class needs to be taken into account, DD's ramming BB's depending on the health pool left should not be an auto death like it seems to be now. Sure massive damage, flooding, maybe even fires starting but insta death, nope..

PS: When can we get an actual "shopping cart".. geez.. it's 2019.. don't think that's all that hard to do.

PSS: When are we going to see NEW MAPS not modified but NEW -  You have design contests for all kinds of things, so why not NEW MAPS !  Historic regional operations would be great, but even that's not needed, but something different would be great.

 

 

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http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Ramming

But in a nutshell: Ships inflect ramming damage equal to their health pool, not their current health.  So a DD ramming a BB will not generally kill the BB unless it was already missing a significant amount of health to begin with.  It will always kill the DD, however.

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22 minutes ago, S16_Hunter said:

Maybe I just don't understand something about how "Ramming" actually works in game and maybe more enlightened players can share their knowledge on the specifics. Having said that I just don't get it.  How can a almost no HP left ship destroy a almost full Health Ship?  There is a flag for Ramming; does it make a difference? I used to see some ships survive ramming but not anymore.  Actually I think I saw 1 recently and was shocked it survived.

I would think that ramming would cause massive damage, ok I'm good with that, but it should not be an automatic "your dead".   And I think class to class needs to be taken into account, DD's ramming BB's depending on the health pool left should not be an auto death like it seems to be now. Sure massive damage, flooding, maybe even fires starting but insta death, nope..

PS: When can we get an actual "shopping cart".. geez.. it's 2019.. don't think that's all that hard to do.

PSS: When are we going to see NEW MAPS not modified but NEW -  You have design contests for all kinds of things, so why not NEW MAPS !  Historic regional operations would be great, but even that's not needed, but something different would be great.

 

 

Theres a flag that reduces damage done to you when you ram. I think there is some sort of angling mechanism as well, but it does indeed seem to produce bizarre results from time to time.

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Avoid torp bulge armor and also keep in mind torp damage reduction values when ramming. Also try to not ram higher tier ships.

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If you have the Kongo, Ishizuchi, or PEF, you should be putting on Ramming flags. .. On those ships, my ram-kill percentage is about 25%. Without flags, my full HP is subtracted from yours, and vice-versa. .. Those ships I mentioned have massive amounts of HP, so they can absorb the ram of a US ship if they are near full health. Ramming flags tip that balance even more, allowing me to kill much larger ships - like a full-health Amagi with a PEF. .. I think it's +50% damage going out, -20% coming in.. .. So if you make a table of full-health values, and cross reference what you are ramming (and look on the screen), you can guess what damage you are going to receive, and see what your remaining health is -- if any is left, you live.

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55 minutes ago, S16_Hunter said:

How can a almost no HP left ship destroy a almost full Health Ship? 

Getting t-boned by 54,890 long tons at 33kts hurts the same if it's full of holes and on fire or not, that said the ramming system is a pretty bare bones hit point trade minus a few factors like flags.  I wouldn't mind seeing a rework that takes into account angle of attack etc. but it's probably a bit of a rabbit hole for dev resources.

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43 minutes ago, Brhinosaurus said:

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Ramming

But in a nutshell: Ships inflect ramming damage equal to their health pool, not their current health.  So a DD ramming a BB will not generally kill the BB unless it was already missing a significant amount of health to begin with.  It will always kill the DD, however.

Not true, if that DD has a ramming flag equipped and have more than 80% health remaining, it will live provided the BB is at a low enough health of no more than 1.5x the health of said DD.

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19 minutes ago, Vader_Sama said:

Not true, if that DD has a ramming flag equipped and have more than 80% health remaining, it will live provided the BB is at a low enough health of no more than 1.5x the health of said DD.

So your best case is a Harugumo with the ramming flag.  It has 25,600 base HP, or 29,100 with Survivability Expert.  So it's going to inflict 43,650 damage to an enemy it rams.  

We'll ram a T8 BB.  Best choice there (without checking all the premiums) would be an A-Hull North Carolina with 53,700 HP.  That ship would normally inflect 53,700 ramming damage but with the Haru having the flag that will be reduced to 42,960 HP, which is still way more than you need to kill the Harugumo.  So even with full health, the Destroyer with the most HP is still going to die ramming the battleship with the least HP.  If the North Cal is at very high HP it will survive, but otherwise it will die too.  

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 It doesn't matter which ship initiates contact.  Both ships deal damage to the other ship based on their own original health pool.  The only differences are if one of the ships is moving directly away from the approaching ship.  In this case, there have been many cases where very limited damage has been dealt.

Ramming flags alter the amount of damage dealt and received.  You get a 50% bonus to damage dealt, and a 20% reduction to damage received.  The -20% is based on the health pool of the receiving ship not the originating ship.  

There is a glitch that happens with a ram.  The initial damage is dealt according to the hit points of the ships and modified according to the ram flags.  Then, momentum of the ships causes a 2nd ram which does it all over again resulting in double the damage and can cause a smaller ship that is running a ram flag to completely devastate a larger ship.

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Ramming damage can happen more than once and also depends on ship speed up to 7 or 8 knots. Two ships traveling at sub-2 knots hitting each other will only take partial damage rather than full HP damage, and it acts more like a DOT.

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if you touch at a slow enough speed, you actually don't deal your ship's HP worth of damage to the ship you are contacting.

Also, it's definitely way better to be rear ended in ship ramming, because you take way less damage than the ship giving chase.

Edited by MrDeaf

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Yeah, they simplified ramming mechanics to basically damage = max HP+flooding. It used to actually matter how fast, what angle, what spot, if you were the striking ship, etc. So if you were trying to miss the ram, you could get away with just scrapping sides. Then again it also used to be doing so could literally cut the ship in two in some cases (such as BB vs any non BB, or BB vs the non central areas of another BB like Bow and stern, or cruiser vs DD) when one or both was destroyed. That and the greater variety of sinking animations made all of it worth while. I enjoyed things like a DD breaking in half from a series of torp hits center, the bow ripped off a BB from getting rammed, a cruiser in 2 pieces going down after a detonation. As opposed to what seems to just be the same 3 animations of a ship rolling over. 

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If both ships are moving in such a way that they collide very slowly at shallow angles, the ramming isn't an insta-kill and more of an extreme DoT effect that lasts as long as the ships are alive and touching. This DoT is separate from flooding, which is guaranteed on collision.

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53 minutes ago, Brhinosaurus said:

So your best case is a Harugumo with the ramming flag.  It has 25,600 base HP, or 29,100 with Survivability Expert.  So it's going to inflict 43,650 damage to an enemy it rams.  

We'll ram a T8 BB.  Best choice there (without checking all the premiums) would be an A-Hull North Carolina with 53,700 HP.  That ship would normally inflect 53,700 ramming damage but with the Haru having the flag that will be reduced to 42,960 HP, which is still way more than you need to kill the Harugumo.  So even with full health, the Destroyer with the most HP is still going to die ramming the battleship with the least HP.  If the North Cal is at very high HP it will survive, but otherwise it will die too.  

Never claimed that a DD will live from ramming a full health BB, but that it isn't an instant death for a DD in any situation where a BB's remaining health is lower than 1.5x the health of the ramming flag equipped DD.

 

Also the ram flag -20% damage reduction upon the ship flying it will cap out to it's own max hp, not the enemy's hp so doesn't matter if it's a GK ramming a tier 4 DD, that DD will survive that one ram with at most 20% health remaining before dying to another tick of ramming or killing off GK that is at a low enough health.

 

Also the Harugumo with the ram flag and survivability expert can ram kill any tier 9 BB minus the Musashi and kill some select tier 10 BBs assuming none of them are running survivability expert or the ram flag as well. This is if the Harugumo has at least >80% health remaining as it would do potentially 3x its health since the ram flag allows the Harugumo to survive the first ram instance, but will immediately do another ram instance for another 1.5x its health in damage if there is still enough momentum left.

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2 hours ago, S16_Hunter said:

Maybe I just don't understand something about how "Ramming" actually works in game and maybe more enlightened players can share their knowledge on the specifics. Having said that I just don't get it

bb = 50 000 HP

dd = 20 000 HP

 

in a perfect condition with no signal/no HP taken away on both ships, a ram result the dd death and bb survive (30 000HP + flooding *(most likely))

some fire exchanged between 2 ships, if the dd wanted to kill the bb with ram, she must first get the bb's HP down to 20 000HP or below the 20 000 HP mark. Because as many had explained above, the ram kill calculate the original HP of both ship

in a condition where the signal used

then you need to calculate the HP of the ship you intended to kill with all the factors included

to answer your question:

2 hours ago, S16_Hunter said:

How can a almost no HP left ship destroy a almost full Health Ship

the bb that almost no HP left = most likely this bb original HP value to equal to or greater the almost full HP ship

 

To argue your statement about the game mechanic:

this is how the game developers coded the game, you played this game, then learn the game mechanic, dont go and make change to suit your needs. Maybe this is how the coding work to make the game work, maybe it not fair or what so ever, but this is how it is. Or maybe, you should learn more about this game mechanic while playing this game. You dont like it, you not happy how the game play, simple, play other games. 

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2 minutes ago, Vader_Sama said:

Never claimed that a DD will live from ramming a full health BB, but that it isn't an instant death for a DD in any situation where a BB's remaining health is lower than 1.5x the health of the ramming flag equipped DD.

 

Also the Harugumo with the ram flag and survivability expert can ram kill any tier 9 BB minus the Musashi and some select tier 10 BBs assuming none of them are running survivability expert or the ram flag as well. This is if the Harugumo has at least >80% health remaining as it would do potentially 3x its health since the ram flag allows the Harugumo to survive the first ram instance, but will immediately do another ram instance for another 1.5x its health in damage if there is still enough momentum left.

But the damage the BB is going to do is dependent on its health pool, not its remaining health.  A yamato with 100 HP remaining and a yamato with full HP remaining will inflict the same damage to a ship it rams.

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2 hours ago, S16_Hunter said:

How can a almost no HP left ship destroy a almost full Health Ship? 

As someone mentioned, an X amount of ton coming at you in full speed ramming your hull. Would hinder the rammed ship out of commission. For all intents and purpose (in the game), it simulates that by disabling sinking.  That's how I'd prefer to see it, personally.

 

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Just now, Brhinosaurus said:

But the damage the BB is going to do is dependent on its health pool, not its remaining health.  A yamato with 100 HP remaining and a yamato with full HP remaining will inflict the same damage to a ship it rams.

And a DD at >80% health can survive any ram from a BB even from a GK. The flag's -20% damage reduction is based on the ship's health that has the flag equipped not the opposing ship.

It just means that the DD will do 2 separate ram instance upon a ship with a much higher health and doing 3x it's own health in damage which may either kill it or leave it on imperiously low health.

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6 minutes ago, Vader_Sama said:

And a DD at >80% health can survive any ram from a BB even from a GK. The flag's -20% damage reduction is based on the ship's health that has the flag equipped not the opposing ship.

It just means that the DD will do 2 separate ram instance upon a ship with a much higher health and doing 3x it's own health in damage which may either kill it or leave it on imperiously low health.

That doesn't make any sense.  Unless you're arguing that the ram mechanics do not behave as the official resources claim they do?  As they're stated, there is no way for a destroyer to survive a ram from any same-tier battleship, regardless of flags being used.  If you can demonstrate otherwise then by all means I'm interested, but as the rules are written, there's just no way.

Edited by Brhinosaurus

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13 minutes ago, Vader_Sama said:

Also the ram flag -20% damage reduction upon the ship flying it will cap out to it's own max hp, not the enemy's hp so doesn't matter if it's a GK ramming a tier 4 DD, that DD will survive that one ram with at most 20% health remaining before dying to another tick of ramming or killing off GK that is at a low enough health.

Are you sure that’s how it works? Can you post a replay from a training room? Cos, unless I am not understanding you correctly, I don’t think this is correct.  

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13 minutes ago, Brhinosaurus said:

That doesn't make any sense.  Unless you're arguing that the ram mechanics do not behave as the official resources claim they do?  As they're stated, there is no way for a destroyer to survive a ram from any same-tier battleship, regardless of flags being used.  If you can demonstrate otherwise then by all means I'm interested, but as the rules are written, there's just no way.

 

12 minutes ago, UltimateNewbie said:

Are you sure that’s how it works? Can you post a replay from a training room? Cos, unless I am not understanding you correctly, I don’t think this is correct.  

I've already tested it before a while back and used an Ichizuchi with the flag and it ram killed a GK no problem.

 

I used a Kidd against North Carolina and the damage inflicted is definitely 3x the Kidds health.

U2v1QLi.jpg

Test this yourself all you want, you will get similar if not the same exact results.

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1 hour ago, ObiphanKenobi said:

this is how the game developers coded the game, you played this game, then learn the game mechanic, dont go and make change to suit your needs. Maybe this is how the coding work to make the game work, maybe it not fair or what so ever, but this is how it is. Or maybe, you should learn more about this game mechanic while playing this game. You dont like it, you not happy how the game play, simple, play other games.

And OBI, I may not be overly fond of it, but like you said "this is how it is".  And yes here I am asking about the mechanics because obviously my knowledge was lacking in that arena and I was hoping to learn more about it, which I have. 

Thanks to all.

Frankly I really like this game, overall I find it and the people who play it very enjoyable.

Thanks again to everyone who responded. And yes I will be putting the ramming flag on more often now :) 

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1 hour ago, S16_Hunter said:

And yes I will be putting the ramming flag on more often now

there is a counter to survive the ram damage, but have to be very quick with fingers (1 on repair and 1 on HP recovery) and situation awareness - 2nd, DO NOT let the ship get in close within ramming - 1 to 2 km. Ramming is the last resort and/or gaining an advantage to make sure the game is win

It work on low tier, get likely in mid tier, least likely in high tier  

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3 hours ago, Brhinosaurus said:

That doesn't make any sense.  Unless you're arguing that the ram mechanics do not behave as the official resources claim they do?  As they're stated, there is no way for a destroyer to survive a ram from any same-tier battleship, regardless of flags being used.  If you can demonstrate otherwise then by all means I'm interested, but as the rules are written, there's just no way.

Just to be clear I am not saying that a DD with the ram flag will survive a ram from a full health BB, but rather it can survive a BB ram if said BB has its remaining health is lower than 1.5x the full health of a DD and if said DD has its remaining health above 80%.

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