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LunchCutter

Can you hit below the waterline in this game?

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It was considered a optimal place to hit a capital ship in both wars, just below the waterline, but in my North Carolina earlier I lined up a oblivious Bismarck at 6k range and fired a full broard side at him, the RNG gods were not kind though and half my shells flew off in a random direction over his head but a good 4 of them splashed down right alongside his hull at point blank yet no hits registered. 

 Is it possible to hit a ship like this or is it not coded to factor in water hits? 

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I Don't know but i'm pretty sure I've heard you can, i sometimes also see shots hit water then you get hit confirmations or Citadels... but that could be latency.

Edited by Corvette3

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1 hour ago, LunchCutter said:

It was considered a optimal place to hit a capital ship in both wars, just below the waterline, but in my North Carolina earlier I lined up a oblivious Bismarck at 6k range and fired a full broard side at him, the RNG gods were not kind though and half my shells flew off in a random direction over his head but a good 4 of them splashed down right alongside his hull at point blank yet no hits registered. 

 Is it possible to hit a ship like this or is it not coded to factor in water hits? 

I think when ships are turning, they list slightly so the waterline on one side is slightly exposed above the water giving you a small target which you can get citadel from. 

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You can hit ships below water, though it's been severely nerfed since alpha. The pen and distance a shell travels once it hits the water was reduced drastically. So it is possible but rare to do so currently in game.

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Two instances I've seen citadels below the waterline:

1. Point blank

2. When the ship heels over in a turn, exposing the citadel.

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2 hours ago, LunchCutter said:

It was considered a optimal place to hit a capital ship in both wars, just below the waterline, but in my North Carolina earlier I lined up a oblivious Bismarck at 6k range and fired a full broard side at him, the RNG gods were not kind though and half my shells flew off in a random direction over his head but a good 4 of them splashed down right alongside his hull at point blank yet no hits registered. 

 Is it possible to hit a ship like this or is it not coded to factor in water hits? 

Short answer is yes. It is possible and it is coded/factored in.

But there are tons of factors involved. Weight of shell, speed of shell, fuse arming threshold, fuse timer, armor, distance between armor and hull... just heaps of info... 

But in your case its trying to citadel a KM turtleback armored BB at close range. It can happen... but for a usn bb vs a km bb you'll land far more from 15k than 5k. Plunging super heavy usn shells ftw.

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3 hours ago, Fog_Heavy_Cruiser_Takao said:

You can hit ships below water, though it's been severely nerfed since alpha. The pen and distance a shell travels once it hits the water was reduced drastically. So it is possible but rare to do so currently in game.

Y'all didn't like my 20+km citadel shots...

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You can hit below the waterline, but not reliably. Shells do travel after hitting the water, but water is very dense and slows them down very quickly until they lose all penetration, and the water impact triggers the fuse so the shell explodes after traveling a small distance in the water.

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1. Yes, It's possible

2. Hit water first might be the best way to cit a CL like Cleveland because their armor is too thin and BBAP usually over pen them.

3. Shell penetration reduce heavily when they make contact to water so unless you are at <2km those shell don't have enough penetration to penetrate any BB main belt armor.

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Lert has had many hours of just testing different things in this game so I'd trust what he says as true. Sadly for me it seems no matter the size of the shell or how fast or close I land it to the ship, once it hits water it just vanishes. I've had better luck with shells that hit just above the water line.

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I think that water penetrations lead to the reporting of a torpedo hit from shells from main battery guns. I have previously reported, especially for the Musashi that sinkings are shown as coming from torpedo hits when obviously this cannot be the case.

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Many of the German - if not all German BBs have turtleback armor around the citadel so they are more difficult to citadel especially when compared to other BBs. 

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1 hour ago, Lert said:

You can hit below the waterline, but not reliably. Shells do travel after hitting the water, but water is very dense and slows them down very quickly until they lose all penetration, and the water impact triggers the fuse so the shell explodes after traveling a small distance in the water.

 

Thats real life shell behaviour, but is it accurately modelled in game as well?

 

I've seen streamers claiming that you can turn "overpens" into "pens" by aiming short and letting "water drag" slow the shell sufficiently for a pen, but I've never seen any evidence that this actually happens in the game. As posted above, game observation is that shells hitting the water at the side of a ship register as a miss and simply vanish.

Perhaps this mechanic is masked or negated by one of the bugs in the game? I had "one of those games" last night in my Gascoigne (EU server) where three successive salvos fell into the water short of a broadside target in clear sea (e.g. not the island proximity bug) at c.6km range, despite the point of aim being in the superstructure. Even with Gascoigne's terrible sigma, the salvo group was clearly not being sent to the point of aim by the server. Even if these salvos had been an honest "miss", the several of the "highest" individual shells were close enough to the target's waterline to have registered as some sort of hit - if an underwater mechanic existed.

Edited by Turbogerbil

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23 minutes ago, Turbogerbil said:

Thats real life shell behaviour, but is it accurately modelled in game as well?

Yes.

<Edit> Did a test. Roma vs Cleveland, under waterline penetrations. You have to hit the water real close to the target, so close that dispersion negates any targeted aiming. Just aim at or slightly above the waterline during normal play is what I'd say. Below waterline hits exist, but are pure RNG due to dispersion even at close ranges.

Replay here. The final two citadels look like slightly below the waterline hits.

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According to wiki you can, only with AP shells:

"AP shells can penetrate ship's armor even below the waterline, after traveling through water. The illustration to the right depicts a typical underwater trajectory of an AP shell: (1) - shell enters the water and is fuzed due to rapid deceleration (2) - trajectory angle changed (this happens every time an AP shell hits water) (3) - after a short delay, the fuze explodes the shell. The image also demonstrates two outcomes of an underwater hit: armor penetration, and a ricochet. As of 0.4.1 the underwater hits do not cause flooding."

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Gunnery_%26_Armor_Penetration

Edited by ij70

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