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Summon3r

Minekaze?

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Hey guys can anyone give me a quick run down on the Minekaze? I havent picked up Japanese DD's in years, well before the split. Im assuming its gunboat classed now? Should i be playing her as a gun boat? Best capt perks and modules?

Thx

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With low alpha gun damage, 10 sec reload and 30 sec turrent traverse ... nope still a torp boat in my book.  I don't play her much but still have her.

My Basic IJN DD Capt build is PT, LS, SE and CE ... after that, I like Adrenaline Rush or Superintendent for extra smoke and speed boost.  Maybe Torp armament expertise.

Hope that helps a bit

p.s. I use Prev Maint vs Priority Target for true Gun Boats ... PT is mainly for Torp Boats.

p.p.s. B Hull for more HP, Gun upgrade for faster reload ( the guns aren't bad if you have to use them), but I don't worry about range.  Would rather go dark than shoot.

Edited by DocWalker

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29 minutes ago, DocWalker said:

With low alpha gun damage, 10 sec reload and 30 sec turrent traverse ... nope still a torp boat in my book.  I don't play her much but still have her.

My Basic IJN DD Capt build is PT, LS, SE and CE ... after that, I like Adrenaline Rush or Superintendent for extra smoke and speed boost.  Maybe Torp armament expertise.

Hope that helps a bit

p.s. I use Prev Maint vs Priority Target for true Gun Boats ... PT is mainly for Torp Boats.

p.p.s. B Hull for more HP, Gun upgrade for faster reload ( the guns aren't bad if you have to use them), but I don't worry about range.  Would rather go dark than shoot.

thx, as luck would have it i had previously exp on the Min so ive got all teh modules just a few matches to get Hatsu, any advice there?

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You're sort of in a bind with captain skills in the branch because after Shiratsuyu, they are gunboats and are all torp boats before. 

So if you are moving captains I would go

PT

LS

SE

CE

then save because you'll really want IFHE at tier 8. Of course if you have gold to respec go a torpedo build till then

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3 hours ago, Summon3r said:

thx, as luck would have it i had previously exp on the Min so ive got all teh modules just a few matches to get Hatsu, any advice there?

I had stopped playing this line for some time and just fairly recently got the Hatsu ... it's a strange duck with long range torps and the BEST STEALTH for it's tier.  It really is a sneakly torp boat but you have to enjoy playing to it's strengths.  I much prefer USN DD for up close and personal.  Loving the Sims after waiting years to buy it on sale.

@Wombatmetal makes some really valid points about the line, actually both lines I think.  Things change as you get to the higher tiers ... I don't have the experience to advise on those, but I'd suggest watching some videos on them ... decide where you want to end up in the line(s) ... and plan you captain skills accordingly.

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6 hours ago, Summon3r said:

Hey guys can anyone give me a quick run down on the Minekaze? I havent picked up Japanese DD's in years, well before the split. Im assuming its gunboat classed now? Should i be playing her as a gun boat? Best capt perks and modules?

Thx

Minikaze... It isn't a gunboat. It isn't a torp boat. Its a crapboat. The guns are slow firing, short-ranged, have very low chance of causing a fire, and have terrible turn times. Nothing you can do will bring them up to an acceptable level for a gunboat. The torps are decidedly underwhelming. They're basically the same 57kt, 10k damage type 6 torp you get on Isokaze (which really isn't an improvement over the type 44mod2 that you first get on Wakatake at tier 3). The only good things on Minikaze are the stealth, which can still be brought down to 5.4km w/ a 10pt captain and concealment expert, and maneuverability (39kts, 2.1 rudder shift time). 

If you want to play an old-school IJN torp boat at tier 5, you better pray you have a Kamikaze (or a Kamikaze clone). Otherwise... :Smile_hiding:

Edited by jkirschy

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19 minutes ago, jkirschy said:

Minikaze... It isn't a gunboat. It isn't a torp boat. Its a crapboat. The guns are slow firing, short-ranged, have very low chance of causing a fire, and have terrible turn times. Nothing you can do will bring them up to an acceptable level for a gunboat. The torps are decidedly underwhelming. They're basically the same 57kt, 10k damage type 6 torp you get on Isokaze (which really isn't an improvement over the type 44mod2 that you first get on Wakatake at tier 3). The only good things on Minikaze are the stealth, which can still be brought down to 5.4km w/ a 10pt captain and concealment expert, and maneuverability (39kts, 2.1 rudder shift time). 

If you want to play an old-school IJN torp boat at tier 5, you better pray you have a Kamikaze (or a Kamikaze clone). Otherwise... :Smile_hiding:

She is by no means a crap boat. Her torpedo reload, makes her a force to be reckoned with, even with the torpedo detection nerf. Can aim 2 torps onto 3 different targets, make her versatile with her torpedoes as well. The turret traverse speed and the reload speed, of her guns, makes them last resort weapons. Her speed, and stealth, and torpedoes are key. An Unhindered Minekaze, is a thorn in the sides of the enemy even when played halfarsed to her strengths.

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10 hours ago, Counter_Gambit said:

She is by no means a crap boat. Her torpedo reload, makes her a force to be reckoned with, even with the torpedo detection nerf. Can aim 2 torps onto 3 different targets, make her versatile with her torpedoes as well. The turret traverse speed and the reload speed, of her guns, makes them last resort weapons. Her speed, and stealth, and torpedoes are key. An Unhindered Minekaze, is a thorn in the sides of the enemy even when played halfarsed to her strengths.

Compared to what Minikaze was before the great IJN DD nerf of patch .5.15/.6.0 the current Minikaze is a great big, steaming pile of crap. Pre-patch .5.15/6.0 Minikaze sported the same type 92 torps that the Kamikaze still sports. You know... the 7km, 68 kt ones that on Kamikaze still hit like the fist of God because they come racing in faster than people expect and can do up to 14,400 damage per hit. The ones that can devastating strike full health and almost full health tier 7 battleships... Now Minikaze only has access to 7km torpedoes that do 57kts and top out at 10,800 damage. So the current torpedoes are far slower and do less damage, which means they're less likely to connect and are less effective when they actually do. Pre-patch .5.15/.6.0 Minikaze's guns were slow to turn and slow to reload, but the high explosive hit harder and had a greater chance of causing a fire than the current guns (on what is ostensibly a IJN gunboat DD) which have the same range, a marginally quicker reload and less fire chance than they did before patch .5.15/.6.0. And then there are the changes to the matchmaker which meant that Minikaze gets up-tiered more often. And let us not forget the proliferation of radar ships in tier 7 (Atlanta, Flint, Indianapolis, and Belfast) which can and will spot you regardless of smoke or cover... Hell the wiki says this when describing the current iteration of Minikaze:

Quote

She is arguably the weakest of the Japanese destroyers, with a low health pool, fragile modules, weak armor, and a very sub-par main battery.

Little White Mouse described Minikaze thus when she did her Angry Youtube Review of the IJN Tech Tree DDs:

Quote

NABvE4Q.jpg

Ouch.  Minekaze is a shadow of her former self.  She used to epitomize everything that was great (overpowered) about the early Japanese destroyer line.  She was nerfed repeatedly and with some determined finality in 0.5.15.  She's supposed to head the "gunship" destroyer line but she remains arguably a better torpedo boat than Mutsuki, even with the nerfs.

And I have to say Mouse was being generous with that description of Minikaze... I'm not going to say a careful player can't have a good game in Minikaze, but if the OP hasn't played her since the IJN DD nerf, he's going to fine she's gone from being an outstanding torpedo boat that was devastatingly effective and fun to play to one that is unforgiving to play and that struggles to be effective, especially when up-tiered.

Hell, given that Shenyang is just a Minikaze w/ quicker firing, faster turning American 5"/50 guns and deepwater torps, I think a case could be made that Minikaze as she currently is could be dropped down to tier 4 with no balance changes and would be a far better tier 4 than she is a tier 5.

Edited by jkirschy

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Yes, she is a shadow of her former self, HOWEVER, she is still a better ship than you are giving her credit for, even in her nerfed state. I still play Minekaze, and I still perform well in her, despite only being an average player.

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11 hours ago, jkirschy said:

Minikaze... It isn't a gunboat. It isn't a torp boat. Its a crapboat. The guns are slow firing, short-ranged, have very low chance of causing a fire, and have terrible turn times. Nothing you can do will bring them up to an acceptable level for a gunboat. The torps are decidedly underwhelming. They're basically the same 57kt, 10k damage type 6 torp you get on Isokaze (which really isn't an improvement over the type 44mod2 that you first get on Wakatake at tier 3). The only good things on Minikaze are the stealth, which can still be brought down to 5.4km w/ a 10pt captain and concealment expert, and maneuverability (39kts, 2.1 rudder shift time). 

If you want to play an old-school IJN torp boat at tier 5, you better pray you have a Kamikaze (or a Kamikaze clone). Otherwise... :Smile_hiding:

Love my Minekaze - it's a solid ship, if you know how to use her.  It's a shame she was nerfed from being as good as teh Kamikaze clones, but she's still a fun ship.

I will use the guns, but she's a great torp boat in that I can still land 8+ torps a match.  Speed+stealth+3 launchers and fast reload aren't to be dismissed.

Or maybe 3 years of games in her and liking a challenge gives me a bias.

 

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2 hours ago, Counter_Gambit said:

Yes, she is a shadow of her former self, HOWEVER, she is still a better ship than you are giving her credit for, even in her nerfed state. I still play Minekaze, and I still perform well in her, despite only being an average player.

 

2 hours ago, Nukelavee45 said:

Love my Minekaze - it's a solid ship, if you know how to use her.  It's a shame she was nerfed from being as good as teh Kamikaze clones, but she's still a fun ship.

I will use the guns, but she's a great torp boat in that I can still land 8+ torps a match.  Speed+stealth+3 launchers and fast reload aren't to be dismissed.

Or maybe 3 years of games in her and liking a challenge gives me a bias.

 

Again I'm not saying a careful player or one who gets lucky can't have a good game in the Minikaze. I had one a little while ago. And I'm not saying that you can't or shouldn't love the Minikaze or any other ship. (I have a Sampson with a 17 point captain sitting in my port that I keep because it was the first DD I ever played, and damn it I love that tub even if power creep has made it less effective than it used to be...) What I'm saying is objectively the Minikaze isn't a very good ship. It doesn't up-tier well. Its unforgiving of mistakes. And because its primary method of dealing damage was nerfed so heavily it struggles to perform effectively. Getting the most out of it requires at least a 10 point captain. And even with a high point captain, its fair to say a Kamikaze in the same situation with the same captain would out perform a Minikaze. There are other DDs at tier 5 that are easier to play and and easier to play well, especially when fully upgraded and commanded by 10+ point captains.

As for the battle I menioned in my second sentence:

2ykantg.png

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57 minutes ago, jkirschy said:

 

Again I'm not saying a careful player or one who gets lucky can't have a good game in the Minikaze. I had one a little while ago. And I'm not saying that you can't or shouldn't love the Minikaze or any other ship. (I have a Sampson with a 17 point captain sitting in my port that I keep because it was the first DD I ever played, and damn it I love that tub even if power creep has made it less effective than it used to be...) What I'm saying is objectively the Minikaze isn't a very good ship. It doesn't up-tier well. Its unforgiving of mistakes. And because its primary method of dealing damage was nerfed so heavily it struggles to perform effectively. Getting the most out of it requires at least a 10 point captain. And even with a high point captain, its fair to say a Kamikaze in the same situation with the same captain would out perform a Minikaze. There are other DDs at tier 5 that are easier to play and and easier to play well, especially when fully upgraded and commanded by 10+ point captains.

As for the battle I menioned in my second sentence:

2ykantg.png

You said it's a crapboat.  It isn't.   Use it as a pure torp boat, and it does well.  I don't have to be cautious or lucky to have a good match in it, I just need to not be really unlucky or too cocky. 

Yes - I have a 19 pt captain in it... because he's the original captain.  Don't assume a 19pt Kamikaze will beat me - it takes somebody who outclasses me as a player, not just the ship and captain.  I don't have many issues being in T7 matches either... I still sink ships and win matches.

It's not what it was, but, it's still a decent, not crap, boat.

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6 hours ago, Nukelavee45 said:

Love my Minekaze - it's a solid ship, if you know how to use her.  It's a shame she was nerfed from being as good as teh Kamikaze clones, but she's still a fun ship.

I will use the guns, but she's a great torp boat in that I can still land 8+ torps a match.  Speed+stealth+3 launchers and fast reload aren't to be dismissed.

Or maybe 3 years of games in her and liking a challenge gives me a bias.

 

1 year of WoWS for me, and I am saying she isn't a crapboat either. If that matters.

Edited by Counter_Gambit
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5 hours ago, Nukelavee45 said:

Yes - I have a 19 pt captain in it... because he's the original captain.  Don't assume a 19pt Kamikaze will beat me - it takes somebody who outclasses me as a player, not just the ship and captain.

I didn't say someone with a Kamikaze with a 19pt captain would automatically beat you, though perhaps I wasn't as clear in what I meant as I should have been. I said its fair to say a Kamikaze in the same situation with the same captain would out perform a Minikaze. Think about it like this... If we took a post patch .5.15/.6.0 game where you did "well" in your Minikaze with a 19pt captain, and simply replaced the Minikaze with a Kamikaze, what would happen to your performance in that game? Remember each torpedo you connect with will do more damage. And because the torpedoes are faster, you're more likely to connect.

And as way of comparison using the numbers from my stats since I have both ships... As a disclaimer, I'm not a great player by any standard and I don't claim to be. I'm merely a meh player, and I tend to get put into a lot of matches with radar ships and aircraft carriers when I play tier 5 DDs because "screw you matchmaking, you're drunk". I have 656 random battles in Kamikaze. (I tend to use it for grinding missions...) On average I do 30,303 damage per game and get .95 kills per game. My record is 229,368 damage done in one game. My max kills in one game is 6. I'm not quite hitting the server average for kills 1.14 or damage 34,467. In Minikaze I have played 46 random battles since the great nerf (which is to say until the recent snowflake event just enough to grind the XP to unlock Hatsuharu). On average I do 13,932 damage and get .43 kills per game in Minikaze. My record for damage in Minikaze is 76,444 damage (thanks to a moron in a Ranger who literally sat there and let me slam 5 torpedoes into him and a ARP Myoko that just was unlucky and sailed into 4 torps earlier today). My max kills in one game is 2 ships. I'm under-performing the server average of 25,265 damage per game and ships sunk per game of .83. (Again meh player. It also probably doesn't help that I only have a 6pt captain on Minikaze right now. I moved the 10pt captain I had on Minikaze to grind Mutsuki and then to Fubuki when I unlocked it...) Would my performance in Minikaze go up if I played more battles and had a high-point captain... Probably. But also probably not massively so. So objectively in any game I play, all other things being equal I will do better, and probably significantly better, on average in Kamikaze than in Minikaze. And I bet that would be true for you if you had a Kamikaze too.

5 hours ago, Nukelavee45 said:

It's not what it was, but, it's still a decent, not crap, boat.

Currently Minikaze is probably would Mouse was call a meh boat if she were to review it. Its certainly not the over-powered terror of tier 5 that feasted on the tears of battleship drivers and provided Jingles with so much material to mock battleship drivers with back in mid-to-late 2015 which was when I started playing. Patch .5.15/.6.0 ended that. However if someone's only point of reference is a pre-nerf Minikaze, which is what the OP is, what do you think the current iteration will feel like?

Edited by jkirschy
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35 minutes ago, jkirschy said:

I didn't say someone with a Kamikaze with a 19pt captain would automatically beat you, though perhaps I wasn't as clear in what I meant as I should have been. I said its fair to say a Kamikaze in the same situation with the same captain would out perform a Minikaze. Think about it like this... If we took a post patch .5.15/.6.0 game where you did "well" in your Minikaze with a 19pt captain, and simply replaced the Minikaze with a Kamikaze, what would happen to your performance in that game? Remember each torpedo you connect with will do more damage. And because the torpedoes are faster, you're more likely to connect.

And as way of comparison using the numbers from my stats since I have both ships... As a disclaimer, I'm not a great player by any standard and I don't claim to be. I'm merely a meh player, and I tend to get put into a lot of matches with radar ships and aircraft carriers when I play tier 5 DDs because "screw you matchmaking, you're drunk". I have 656 random battles in Kamikaze. (I tend to use it for grinding missions...) On average I do 30,303 damage per game and get .95 kills per game. My record is 229,368 damage done in one game. My max kills in one game is 6. I'm not quite hitting the server average for kills 1.14 or damage 34,467. In Minikaze I have played 46 random battles since the great nerf (which is to say until the recent snowflake event just enough to grind the XP to unlock Hatsuharu). On average I do 13,932 damage and get .43 kills per game in Minikaze. My record for damage in Minikaze is 76,444 damage (thanks to a moron in a Ranger who literally sat there and let me slam 5 torpedoes into him and a ARP Myoko that just was unlucky and sailed into 4 torps earlier today). My max kills in one game is 2 ships. I'm under-performing the server average of 25,265 damage per game and ships sunk per game of .83.

So... Not enough battles to really get a feel for the ship, nor enough to really solidify your stats to the point "it takes more than 1 battle to make noticeable changes to stats."

26 victories isn't half bad for 46 games. Let's say you play again and lose. You currently have 56.5% winrate in that ship. Playing a 47th match and losing, drops that winrate down to 55.3% If you play a 47th battle and win, giving you 27/47, your winrate increases to 57.4%. Those are some noticeable changes to your stats.

Even if we took my 64 games, and 32 victories (exactly 50%). Playing a single game and losing, results in 32/65, 49.2% win rate. Playing a 65th battle and winning, 33/65 is 50.8%.

These are also noticeable changes, so even I do not have enough battles to solidify my stats. And I play the ship for fun when I am not grinding out commanders, or high tier missions. Never once sold her, after obtaining.

And before anyone says anything: I had attempted this game once before, on a different account (lost access to, thus started this account, which is a year old), and did play Minekaze in her original glory. She was over-powered and needed nerfing. I think they went too far with the torpedo detection, but Minekaze received a nerf in just the right way, that still makes her quite the terror in the hands of an average player like myself. She is not a crap boat, she is an Average Boat. She is certainly a shadow of her former self, but that's a good thing.

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