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KindaBruhPianist

This thought just came to my mind Tier X battleships

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Sooo... I don't own any tier 10 (In fact my highest tiered ship is Aoba) so take what I say with a grain of salt

The announced Soviet BBs aroused certain players to powercreep of the original tier X BBs (Yamato and Montana)

This is how I'd reshuffle the tech tree

PART I:

First for the Japanese:

Playstyle: Long range sniper(yes I know there will be camping problems)

Tier X: A-150(Yashima)

Yes I am aware that these ships have 510mm guns and WG said nothing bigger than 460mm. Then again, they used to say no submarines. These ships may have high sigma values since they are basically Yamatos with larger guns, and highest alpha in the game. Whilst effective at long range, it will be horrible to brawl. The turrets traverses even slower than Yamato, and her 155mm secondaries fire AP. She does have 100mm DP guns firing HE (same as those on Akizuki, Kitakaze and Harugumo) but without IFHE they shatter against DD armor, making it near defenseless at close range. If you were wondering what Yashima is, it's a fictional name for the ship. It fits with naming conventions of Japanese Battleships though.

Tier IX: Yamato

Dethroned from tier X, this beast now only has her 1944 hull with less AA. Possibly reduced bow armor to balance her above Musashi AA levels.

Tier VIII: 2 choices

Either remove Izumo altogether, or move Izumo down a tier with same stats, and turn Amagi into a premium ship.

Germany:

Playstyle: Same turtleback armor brawler

Tier X: H42

The name remains Grosser Kurfurst, yet it is the real H42 with 8x19 inch guns and triple torp launchers on each side. The remaining line is unchanged, albeit adding triple torp tubes to FdG. The torpedoes are the same as same tiered German DDs, albeit with the same reload while only having 3 torps.

STAY TUNED FOR PART II

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Just now, sansfaille said:

Those who paid 750k free exp to get Musashi will be up in arms :D

d904d6eeb2.png

:cap_rambo:

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All due respect... until you play at higher tiers, you don't have enough information to make an educated shuffle. As it is, the BBs are fine at T10. They have flavors and strengths and weaknesses. Except Bourgogne. Bourgogne is OP.

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Dude. Appreciate the enthusiasm, but ... that grain of salt needs to be the size of mount everest, until you've actually gotten the ships in question and had a chance to play them.

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16 minutes ago, sansfaille said:

Those who paid 750k free exp to get Musashi will be up in arms :D

I'm already regretting not spending coal on it instead of fxp lol

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The only BB that maybe needs a good look at is Kurfurst. It's bulk is not compensated enough by the meager amount of extra HP. The others work well off of eachother.

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1 hour ago, Paco_Lui said:

Sooo... I don't own any tier 10 (In fact my highest tiered ship is Aoba) so take what I say with a grain of salt

The announced Soviet BBs aroused certain players to powercreep of the original tier X BBs (Yamato and Montana)

This is how I'd reshuffle the tech tree

PART I:

First for the Japanese:

Playstyle: Long range sniper(yes I know there will be camping problems)

Tier X: A-150(Yashima)

Yes I am aware that these ships have 510mm guns and WG said nothing bigger than 460mm. Then again, they used to say no submarines. These ships may have high sigma values since they are basically Yamatos with larger guns, and highest alpha in the game. Whilst effective at long range, it will be horrible to brawl. The turrets traverses even slower than Yamato, and her 155mm secondaries fire AP. She does have 100mm DP guns firing HE (same as those on Akizuki, Kitakaze and Harugumo) but without IFHE they shatter against DD armor, making it near defenseless at close range. If you were wondering what Yashima is, it's a fictional name for the ship. It fits with naming conventions of Japanese Battleships though.

Tier IX: Yamato

Dethroned from tier X, this beast now only has her 1944 hull with less AA. Possibly reduced bow armor to balance her above Musashi AA levels.

Tier VIII: 2 choices

Either remove Izumo altogether, or move Izumo down a tier with same stats, and turn Amagi into a premium ship.

Germany:

Playstyle: Same turtleback armor brawler

Tier X: H42

The name remains Grosser Kurfurst, yet it is the real H42 with 8x19 inch guns and triple torp launchers on each side. The remaining line is unchanged, albeit adding triple torp tubes to FdG. The torpedoes are the same as same tiered German DDs, albeit with the same reload while only having 3 torps.

STAY TUNED FOR PART II

>dropping Yamato to t9

>Guess musashi is t8 now?

>460mm guns vs T6 BB and cruisers

Brilliant idea, what could possibly go wrong here?

The only people who think Yamato isn't fine are probably people who either bow camp all game and damage control one fire, or broadside an enemy flank and complain that they're getting killed.

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PART II

You are advised to take more salt to the point where it hurts your kidneys. This is just an enthusiast kid with not much knowledge of high tiers.

British:

Playstyle: HESH

If you played WoT you know very well what HESH is. The Conq currently with the Montana loadout is just HE spam. I would remove the 12 gun config altogether and buff the 8×457s. Remember HESH? These high pen HE can citadels heavy cruisers. To compensate for their cruiser killer abilities, their AP performance will be lowered and thus their anti-BB capabilities is bad. Still brawls better than the Yashima though.

STAY TUNED FOR PART III AND MORE SALT

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1 hour ago, Pulicat said:

The only BB that maybe needs a good look at is Kurfurst. It's bulk is not compensated enough by the meager amount of extra HP. The others work well off of eachother.

HP is done based off displacement. not really sure what you could even improve on without power creeping other ships. improve the secondaries a bit? improve their HP and range?

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3 hours ago, Paco_Lui said:

Tier X: A-150(Yashima)

Yes I am aware that these ships have 510mm guns and WG said nothing bigger than 460mm. Then again, they used to say no submarines. These ships may have high sigma values since they are basically Yamatos with larger guns, and highest alpha in the game. Whilst effective at long range, it will be horrible to brawl. The turrets traverses even slower than Yamato, and her 155mm secondaries fire AP. She does have 100mm DP guns firing HE (same as those on Akizuki, Kitakaze and Harugumo) but without IFHE they shatter against DD armor, making it near defenseless at close range. If you were wondering what Yashima is, it's a fictional name for the ship. It fits with naming conventions of Japanese Battleships though.

The problem with A-150 is that it wouldn‘t even be more powerful than Yamato in-game.

To understand this it‘s important to ask the quesion what makes Yamato so powerful as a gun platform. Answer to that would be the following two factors, all directly related to her guns:

1. Accuracy: Yamato has a very tight dispersion pattern and her shells are very likely to land closer to the center of the dispersion ellipse. What always helps to land shells is the volume of the individual salvo. The more shells you fire, the larger your chance of a hit, obviously. A-150 however is a ship with only six guns, contrary to Yamato‘s nine. As a consequence less shells will be flying towards the target, and the firepower will feel lackluster. A good example of this is Gneisenau, which is also only firing six shells at max.

2. Overmatch: Since you are somewhat new to the game, I‘ll summarize overmatcj quickly. When an AP shell strikes an armor plate at an angle, at certain angles it either has the chance to ricochet, or will ricochet. However, if the shell‘s diameter is 14.3 times the armor thickness it will overmatch the armor, and will under no circumstance ricochet. Yamato‘s main guns are 460mm, so when we do the calculation 460mm/14.3=32.2mm aka, Yamato will not bounce off any plate that is 32mm thick or thinner. 32mm is a very important thickness at T8-10, because that‘s the bow and stern armor of high Tier Battleships.

Now doing that calculation for A-150‘s guns, 510mm/14.3=35.7mm. Looking through what armor A-150 would overmatch, but where Yamato would bounce, I can‘t think of anything at the moment. A-150 simply doesn‘t gain enough.

3 hours ago, Paco_Lui said:

Tier X: H42

The name remains Grosser Kurfurst, yet it is the real H42 with 8x19 inch guns and triple torp launchers on each side. The remaining line is unchanged, albeit adding triple torp tubes to FdG. The torpedoes are the same as same tiered German DDs, albeit with the same reload while only having 3 torps.

The problem with those German Battleships and their Torpedo Tubes is that they are mounted below the waterline. 

15ED68F4-24C4-44B3-9F2B-5A525E460578.jpeg.41547e750b410d30e5cf0daf20cb92b3.jpeg

This is H-39‘s drawing, you can see the three Torpedo Tubes under the waterline in front of the A-turret.

3 hours ago, Paco_Lui said:

The announced Soviet BBs aroused certain players to powercreep of the original tier X BBs (Yamato and Montana)

Players have always complained how new Battleships would make everything else obsolete. When GK appeared, people feared she‘d make Montana irrelevant. When Conqueror appeared, people believed that Montana would suddenly be irrelevant.

In reality, Yamato still is a top pick, if not the top pick, for Clan Battles. Montana is still a top contender. GK and Conqueror couldn‘t dethrone either of them.

As a piece of advice, especially when it comes to Russian ships, people like to exaggerate. It pays off to not lose your head over the paranoia, and to observe what actually happens.

:Smile_honoring:

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53 minutes ago, SireneRacker said:

The problem with A-150 is that it wouldn‘t even be more powerful than Yamato in-game.

To understand this it‘s important to ask the quesion what makes Yamato so powerful as a gun platform. Answer to that would be the following two factors, all directly related to her guns:

1. Accuracy: Yamato has a very tight dispersion pattern and her shells are very likely to land closer to the center of the dispersion ellipse. What always helps to land shells is the volume of the individual salvo. The more shells you fire, the larger your chance of a hit, obviously. A-150 however is a ship with only six guns, contrary to Yamato‘s nine. As a consequence less shells will be flying towards the target, and the firepower will feel lackluster. A good example of this is Gneisenau, which is also only firing six shells at max.

2. Overmatch: Since you are somewhat new to the game, I‘ll summarize overmatcj quickly. When an AP shell strikes an armor plate at an angle, at certain angles it either has the chance to ricochet, or will ricochet. However, if the shell‘s diameter is 14.3 times the armor thickness it will overmatch the armor, and will under no circumstance ricochet. Yamato‘s main guns are 460mm, so when we do the calculation 460mm/14.3=32.2mm aka, Yamato will not bounce off any plate that is 32mm thick or thinner. 32mm is a very important thickness at T8-10, because that‘s the bow and stern armor of high Tier Battleships.

Now doing that calculation for A-150‘s guns, 510mm/14.3=35.7mm. Looking through what armor A-150 would overmatch, but where Yamato would bounce, I can‘t think of anything at the moment. A-150 simply doesn‘t gain enough.

The problem with those German Battleships and their Torpedo Tubes is that they are mounted below the waterline. 

15ED68F4-24C4-44B3-9F2B-5A525E460578.jpeg.41547e750b410d30e5cf0daf20cb92b3.jpeg

This is H-39‘s drawing, you can see the three Torpedo Tubes under the waterline in front of the A-turret.

Players have always complained how new Battleships would make everything else obsolete. When GK appeared, people feared she‘d make Montana irrelevant. When Conqueror appeared, people believed that Montana would suddenly be irrelevant.

In reality, Yamato still is a top pick, if not the top pick, for Clan Battles. Montana is still a top contender. GK and Conqueror couldn‘t dethrone either of them.

As a piece of advice, especially when it comes to Russian ships, people like to exaggerate. It pays off to not lose your head over the paranoia, and to observe what actually happens.

:Smile_honoring:

Thanks for the underwater torp info. Did not realize that until now.

I know what overmatch is, and I know that's the selling point of the Yamato and Musashi. But with A-150, the penetration of the shells increases by 40 to 50% from what I heard. This may give it the ability to possibly citadel German BBs at medium range, where other BBs would struggle to do so.

I am talking about random battles instead of Clan Battles here. So there might be a difference

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Soviet BB will most likely cause more powercreep between BB but I wouldn't jump to conclusion and says it will make them straight up irrelevant. While half joking by saying these Soviet BB will have tons of layer of armour + radar + [insert another meme], I still think Yamato, Montana or Republique will still have their own role.

 

Currently, BB are fine. What bother me though is the increase of BB able to pen 30mm of armor. Before only Yamato could do that, now 457 Conqueror can do the same (even if almost no one play with these guns), République can also pen 30mm armor (but it "only" has 8 shell) and soon those soviet BB will throw 12 457mm shell at a CA. The only CA not affected by these are Moksva and Stalingrad.

 

Anyway, just wait for more information regarding Soviet BB.

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32 minutes ago, Paco_Lui said:

But with A-150, the penetration of the shells increases by 40 to 50% from what I heard. This may give it the ability to possibly citadel German BBs at medium range, where other BBs would struggle to do so.

I haven‘t seen any penetration figures for the 510mm guns so far. Mind if I ask for your source on that?

The problem with scoring citadel hits on German Battleships is not just that you require a lot of penetration, but also as you surely know the turtleback. With the steep angle of said turtleback and at the ranges we typically fire at in this game, it is basically a guaranteed bounce unless some awkward shot below the belt happens, or a shell somehow penetrates via the bow/stern area.

I ran some tests regarding that, and had Yamato fire at a GK from over 30km. Suddenly I got citadel hits semi-reliably. The shells had just enough angle downwards to not bounce off the turtleback all the time.

36 minutes ago, Paco_Lui said:

I am talking about random battles instead of Clan Battles here. So there might be a difference

Clan Battles provide a perspective that Random Battles do not give. Clans in Clan Battles will try to use Battleships that have the highest possible potential, or as people call it the highest skill ceiling. Yamato and Montana have the highest potential of the T10 Battleships, since they are the most accurate and will reward skillfull play more than GK or Conqueror could ever dream of.

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7 hours ago, Kebobstuzov said:

All due respect... until you play at higher tiers, you don't have enough information to make an educated shuffle.

This.

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6 hours ago, Hanger_18 said:

HP is done based off displacement. not really sure what you could even improve on without power creeping other ships. improve the secondaries a bit? improve their HP and range?

I think give germans the secondary accuracy of manual secondaries without the skill so you dont need those 4 points to make a viable secondary spec, or you can get it anyways to maul DDs. The extra 4 points would let you invest in skills to help make german BBs just that touch stronger and potentially make the secondary spec more viable.

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On 1/4/2019 at 10:33 AM, Kebobstuzov said:

I think give germans the secondary accuracy of manual secondaries without the skill so you dont need those 4 points to make a viable secondary spec, or you can get it anyways to maul DDs. The extra 4 points would let you invest in skills to help make german BBs just that touch stronger and potentially make the secondary spec more viable.

basically take the 4 points for fire prevention or BOS then like every other BB build

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I like the current tier 10 BB's as they are.  Moving them up to the fictitious UBER-Battleship paper ships will not improve the game.  I do expect the Russian BB's to be super STRONK!  I will reserve judgment.  I hope WG will try to keep a bit of sanity and not have them blatantly outclass everything we currently have or make them too gimmicky.  I would expect, slow, big and robust that hit like Thor's hammer.  It remains to be seen.  I have quite a few tier 10's and tier 9's and lean strongly to cruiser and dd play.  However,  Currently it appears any tier 10 BB can engage an enemy BB with a reasonable chance of victory and they seem across the board to be in a pretty decent parity.  WG has made some blatant balance mistakes in the past.  They do eventually break out the nerf bat and try to set things back on an even keel.  So  lets us leave the tier 10 Behemoths as they are, see what WG has in mind for the Soviet line, let the Super Testers take them out and shake them down and find the good the bad and ugly, and see what WG actually releases before we decide to change what we already have.

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